This is why people "despise" Bitcoin

[jacktheking]

ForumPromotion was where I learnt and know about Bitcoin. After joining Bitcointalk and found out that I can earn lot of money here I stopped visiting the forums.

To get some traffic to my site, I visited them again. I saw the thread where I knew Bitcoin from and decide to look at it... Guess what?

Honestly, I despise bitcoin. Unlike any other site where you link your bank account to pull funds from, bitcoin takes 5-7 business days to pull the funds and place them in your account. It's total bull. When I first joined and set that up, I found out about that and was really pissed because I only did it to use it at that very moment. I actually kind of went off on a rep about it because immediately after I did it I tried to cancel and they told me I only could cancel in a limited amount of time. I literally did it immediately after I set up the transaction and they refused to refund my money or cancel it. I will never, ever, use bitcoin again.

I dont understand what you are trying to say. Did you use an exchange? What wallet did you use to store your Bitcoin? Bitcoin transaction usually take around ten minutes to get confirmed. Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer network. Hence, you are not able to revert a transaction like Paypal.

When I set up a bitcoin account, it had me set up a link to my bank for easy deposits into bitcoin. I did that. When I transferred the appropriate funds from my bank into my bitcoin account, it wasn't immediate even after they verified my bank information. They claimed they do reverse transactions if you haven't passed a specific time limit. Immediately after I sent the request and saw that the money hadn't gone into my bitcoin account, I contacted someone trying to cancel it as my account wouldn't allow me to do so. I needed that money immediately for something and I wasn't going to wait. They refused to reverse it and I waited ten days to get the bitcoin amount. I haven't touched the account since and that money is still just sitting there.

Original post at ForumPromotion: http://forumpromotion.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1357440#p1357440

From my understanding, Teg buy Bitcoin from a website. The website asked Teg to transfer fiat to the website bank account. The process was delayed - not sure "what" exactly is delayed - and Teg asked for a refund (reverse). The website claimed they will do reverse if it have not passed a time limit. However upon receiving Teg request they demonstrated bad customer support and refuse to reverse the transaction. Teg have no choice but to wait for ten days before Teg receive the Bitcoin in Teg's wallet.

The reason why some people choose to "despise" Bitcoin is because they receive bad customer support from their first exchange. The website should provide a clear and good reason why they are not able to revert the transaction. We just lost one potential Bitcoiner because of bad customer service at a Bitcoin related site.

I tried to pressure Teg to use Bitcoin again but it seem like it is not working as I dont understand what have happened to her. I hope the friendly Bitcoiners here - Bitcointalkers is friendly right? - would post some good points about Bitcoin and tell Teg why she should start moving her Bitcoin and use them. .

Please note that Teg allowed me to quotes her post on ForumPromotion to Bitcointalk. So, please respect Teg and demonstrate good Bitcoiner support we have at Bitcointalk. .

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[gogxmagog]

true that a bad experience with unscrupulous businesses can sour one on btc, it can sour one on anything, but btc seems to be lousy with shitty scams and rip-offs.

there is a point where you have to ask yourself how much you are to blame though. how much research did you do on this company before you tried to do business with them? btc scammers know they have plenty n00bs who barely understand what is going on and they burn them accordingly. you cant expect anyone to be honest. you have to educate yourself and protect yourself. sorry man, but that's the law of the jungle, btc fiat or shiny rocks, mankind is a greedy evil animal.

[jacktheking]

true that a bad experience with unscrupulous businesses can sour one on btc, it can sour one on anything, but btc seems to be lousy with shitty scams and rip-offs.

there is a point where you have to ask yourself how much you are to blame though. how much research did you do on this company before you tried to do business with them? btc scammers know they have plenty n00bs who barely understand what is going on and they burn them accordingly. you cant expect anyone to be honest. you have to educate yourself and protect yourself. sorry man, but that's the law of the jungle, btc fiat or shiny rocks, mankind is a greedy evil animal.

Agree. It is lucky that Teg was able to get the equivalent amount in Bitcoin back. The bad thing happened to Tag was that the customer service she received. It was terrible and made Teg not want to use Bitcoin again.

[Kprawn]

The problem is not with the Bitcoin protocol or the technology, it's with human failures and greedy people wanting to get into the action quickly, and setting up half ass businesses

with no support services. Bitcoin cannot take the blame for every Tom/Dick and Harry who open shop and give bad service.  If you get bad service from a bank, will you stop

using the fiat currency, like the dollar or the pound? Nope... Blame the service not the currency. 

[maokoto]

The problem is not with the Bitcoin protocol or the technology, it's with human failures and greedy people wanting to get into the action quickly, and setting up half ass businesses

with no support services. Bitcoin cannot take the blame for every Tom/Dick and Harry who open shop and give bad service.  If you get bad service from a bank, will you stop

using the fiat currency, like the dollar or the pound? Nope... Blame the service not the currency. 

It is pretty much this. There are too many scams, and when you are a newbie and get into a forum and read about securing your wallet, encrypting, cold-storaging... you get a sentiment of high risk.

[Slark]

It is pretty much this. There are too many scams, and when you are a newbie and get into a forum and read about securing your wallet, encrypting, cold-storaging... you get a sentiment of high risk.

If you are a newbie you probably don't have significant number of bitcoins, if any. And to be honest if you have couple BTC you don't really need secure wallet, hardware wallet, encrypting. And cold-storage is for you a waste of time. But I gotta agree that bitcoin is not the best user friendly technology as of now.

[Febo]

From my understanding, Teg buy Bitcoin from a website.

There was her problem. You should ask her from which website she tried to buy bitcoins.
Buying Bitcoins usually takes a while, but using them simplify your transactions.


And why she wanted to pay with Bitcoin that VPN and not having them is a mystery to me.  It is like i would go pay with a CYN but i would only have Euros. Ofcourse it will complicate  the payment.

[Mickeyb]

I feel bad for Teg, but this was not a Bitcoin core problem as some of the users said already before me. These are the scammy exchange sites, the kind of people that you will find in any business.

I do agree that purchasing Bitcoin and securing your coins are still two of the hardest things to do while dealing with Bitcoin. I do believe that as time passes this will become easier and easier. I already see many more people offering credit card purchases. This should facilitate Bitcoin buying.

[pawel7777]

Her (Teg's) latest reply indicates that she cannot grasp the fact that bitcoin is not a business entity:

You can quote me.

Ramnode, a hosting site I use for VPN, linked me directly to bitcoin when I clicked that I wanted to use it to purchase my plan. Therefore, it was bitcoin directly that I was directed to.

Well, if she didn't even bother to do a basic research, there's not much you can do.

[twister]

The problem is not with the Bitcoin protocol or the technology, it's with human failures and greedy people wanting to get into the action quickly, and setting up half ass businesses

with no support services. Bitcoin cannot take the blame for every Tom/Dick and Harry who open shop and give bad service.  If you get bad service from a bank, will you stop

using the fiat currency, like the dollar or the pound? Nope... Blame the service not the currency. 

You're right but sometimes a buyer doesn't have too much choice, some of the exchanges are not available in their country, especially if the buyer is using his bank account, he'd prefer an exchange in his country to avoid the international wire transfer cost. You can argue that he could have used LBC but if you trade there or know people who do, it's not that easy anymore, there are different types of scam showing up involving bank transfers and some traders I know who have had 1000s of trades have stopped trading there because of those and it's not the fault of LBC but ugly scammers.

No, if one gets a bad service from a bank, they would not stop using fiat but change their bank because they can but there are limited exchanges and limited ways for someone who is just starting with Bitcoin.

I agree that Bitcoin is not to be blamed here but we have to accept that the procedure of Buying is not so easy for people with limited knowledge about Bitcoin and trading safely and it doesn't matter if they blame Bitcoin or the service, we as a Bitcoin community lose a potential member before they even start their journey.

Her (Teg's) latest reply indicates that she cannot grasp the fact that bitcoin is not a business entity:

You can quote me.

Ramnode, a hosting site I use for VPN, linked me directly to bitcoin when I clicked that I wanted to use it to purchase my plan. Therefore, it was bitcoin directly that I was directed to.

Well, if she didn't even bother to do a basic research, there's not much you can do.

Yeah, some people think that Bitcoin is a company and when you go to exchanges, you're buying directly from the Company and that's why they blame it. I think it's better if people spend some time on this forum before buying, a few days on this forum will teach them a lot about, what bitcoin is firstly, what are the easy ways to buy it and things to look out for when purchasing.

[jacktheking]

Great replies we have here...

The problem is not with the Bitcoin protocol or the technology, it's with human failures and greedy people wanting to get into the action quickly, and setting up half ass businesses

with no support services. Bitcoin cannot take the blame for every Tom/Dick and Harry who open shop and give bad service.  If you get bad service from a bank, will you stop

using the fiat currency, like the dollar or the pound? Nope... Blame the service not the currency. 

Agree. There is nothing wrong with Bitcoin technology in Teg case. It is the operator of the site who is wrong. He or she did not give a Teg a clear reason why he or she is not able to revert the transaction. This type of businesses is not helping Bitcoin.

From my understanding, Teg buy Bitcoin from a website.

And why she wanted to pay with Bitcoin that VPN and not having them is a mystery to me.  It is like i would go pay with a CYN but i would only have Euros. Ofcourse it will complicate  the payment.

I think Teg want to pay using Bitcoin because she wanted to a new way to make payment online. However, the customer service she received made her very disappointed with Bitcoin.

I feel bad for Teg, but this was not a Bitcoin core problem as some of the users said already before me. These are the scammy exchange sites, the kind of people that you will find in any business.

I do agree that purchasing Bitcoin and securing your coins are still two of the hardest things to do while dealing with Bitcoin. I do believe that as time passes this will become easier and easier. I already see many more people offering credit card purchases. This should facilitate Bitcoin buying.

I agree that Bitcoin is not to be blamed here but we have to accept that the procedure of Buying is not so easy for people with limited knowledge about Bitcoin and trading safely and it doesn't matter if they blame Bitcoin or the service, we as a Bitcoin community lose a potential member before they even start their journey.

Agree with what both of you say. I hope that in the future, more and more legit exchanges will open doors to everyone in the world. Providing them an easy way to purchase Bitcoin.

Yeah, some people think that Bitcoin is a company and when you go to exchanges, you're buying directly from the Company and that's why they blame it. I think it's better if people spend some time on this forum before buying, a few days on this forum will teach them a lot about, what bitcoin is firstly, what are the easy ways to buy it and things to look out for when purchasing.

Yes. Others should join this forums and learn a few things about Bitcoin before proceeding to buy Bitcoin on an trusted exchanges. However, the problem here is with the 360 seconds limit for newbie. When I registered here back in the 2013 I only made a few posts and left the community until late 2014. I came back because I somehow learnt about Signature campaign and was interested to join them.

[Kakmakr]

This is why we have sites like these, http://www.badbitcoin.org/ just report the bad sites and refer and share this link to as many people as possible. These services will quickly get their act together, when sites like badbitcoin.org become one of the more popular sites in the Bitcoin world.

A simple bad review of a site, will pop up on a Google search and people will avoid these services. Do your part and report these bad sites. ^hmf^

[rebuilder]

jacktheking, can you find out who she actually sent her fiat to? Her last post on the forum says she went to bitcoin.org and set up an account that she transferred money to from her bank. Obviously some kind of misunderstanding there already since (if you're reading this, Teg) bitcoin.org doesn't provide accounts of any kind, just software downloads and links to third party services.

[Mickeyb]

This is why we have sites like these, http://www.badbitcoin.org/ just report the bad sites and refer and share this link to as many people as possible. These services will quickly get their act together, when sites like badbitcoin.org become one of the more popular sites in the Bitcoin world.

A simple bad review of a site, will pop up on a Google search and people will avoid these services. Do your part and report these bad sites. ^hmf^

This is a great idea. Bitcoin ecosystem needs some kind of reputation site like this at the moment. Just too many scams exist in the Bitcoin world. I hope something will change soon.

People are also very careless. I found too many times that they are not even checking the reputation of certain services. They he just go ahead and use it. When they get scammed, you see them crying all over the place.

[jacktheking]

This is why we have sites like these, http://www.badbitcoin.org/ just report the bad sites and refer and share this link to as many people as possible. These services will quickly get their act together, when sites like badbitcoin.org become one of the more popular sites in the Bitcoin world.

A simple bad review of a site, will pop up on a Google search and people will avoid these services. Do your part and report these bad sites. ^hmf^

It is a great site to stay away from scams. Most bitcoiners aware of the site badbitcoin.org but newcoiners dont. We need to do something to make newcoiners learn and go to the site to check for scams.

jacktheking, can you find out who she actually sent her fiat to? Her last post on the forum says she went to bitcoin.org and set up an account that she transferred money to from her bank. Obviously some kind of misunderstanding there already since (if you're reading this, Teg) bitcoin.org doesn't provide accounts of any kind, just software downloads and links to third party services.

I will try to ask Teg again. I think she misunderstood how Bitcoin work. I dont think Teg used Bitcoin.org simply because Bitcoin.org will not ask anyone to buy Bitcoin from them.

[Amph]

so they despise bitcoin because they want to use it like a normal fiat bank, by connecting with bank and stuff like that, when the primarily usage with bitcoin should be on your full control with your local client

the problem with bitcoin are the people that still treat it, as a old centralized fiat system

[franky1]

The problem is not with the Bitcoin protocol or the technology, it's with human failures and greedy people wanting to get into the action quickly, and setting up half ass businesses

with no support services. Bitcoin cannot take the blame for every Tom/Dick and Harry who open shop and give bad service.  If you get bad service from a bank, will you stop

using the fiat currency, like the dollar or the pound? Nope... Blame the service not the currency. 

i agree 100% with this post

[dothebeats]

This is not bitcoin's fault but rather the service's end. I don't see why people hate the tech but not the people who is behind their failures or losses.

[JeWay]

So, do you mean the point is we have to introduce a Bitcoin with the better way?

[neonshium]

This is not bitcoin's fault but rather the service's end. I don't see why people hate the tech but not the people who is behind their failures or losses.

Yes. Bitcoin has nothing with people's intention. Even with paypal's 42 days refund policy people get scammed after the 43rd day. Escrow may work up to some limits. But a scammer can not withstand when a community mark them. Over technology growth people get smarter than that.

[Quantus]

I will stop using bitcoin the day i can no longer use a full node.
Never use a website to host your wallet people.

[Mickeyb]

I will stop using bitcoin the day i can no longer use a full node.
Never use a website to host your wallet people.

Thank you sir for this. I wish everyone thinks the same way as you. I have been preaching and begging people in numerous threads that they stop using online wallets. Yet people stay ignorant as hell and just do it their way.

[jacktheking]

so they despise bitcoin because they want to use it like a normal fiat bank, by connecting with bank and stuff like that, when the primarily usage with bitcoin should be on your full control with your local client

the problem with bitcoin are the people that still treat it, as a old centralized fiat system

Yes. The problem is that others dont understand Bitcoin and just use the like the old fiat system. They need to learn Bitcoin first before they start using Bitcoin like what twister said.

This is not bitcoin's fault but rather the service's end. I don't see why people hate the tech but not the people who is behind their failures or losses.

Everyone know that this is not Bitcoin fault. It is the customer service operator who handled Teg fault. He did not give Teg a clear and valid explanation. As see from here, "I contacted someone from bitcoins support asking for them to cancel the transaction", Teg thought that Bitcoin is an organisation.

So, do you mean the point is we have to introduce a Bitcoin with the better way?

Probably in a simplified way. However, I cannot see anything simpler than "Bitcoin is an innovative payment network and a new kind of money." at Bitcoin.org. It just that people who want to start using Bitcoin read the homepage of Bitcoin.org clearly.

I will stop using bitcoin the day i can no longer use a full node.
Never use a website to host your wallet people.

Thank you sir for this. I wish everyone thinks the same way as you. I have been preaching and begging people in numerous threads that they stop using online wallets. Yet people stay ignorant as hell and just do it their way.

I wanted to run my own Bitcoin Core too. The problem is.. my computer is an old computer that left with only ~ 27 GB of diskspace. :/. I have no choice but to use a third-party to store my Bitcoin.

[pawel7777]

...
I wanted to run my own Bitcoin Core too. The problem is.. my computer is an old computer that left with only ~ 27 GB of diskspace. :/. I have no choice but to use a third-party to store my Bitcoin.

Or you could just use light-weight client (i.e. Multibit), you won't run a node but you do have control over your private keys. It's a nice middle-ground between Bitcoin Core and Online wallets.

[mexxer-2]

Same thing happened to me as OP, I got to know about bitcoin from TBN which I regularly visited for some fun botted methods, now that I find you can way more money here by doing virtually nothing, I don't even bother going there.
Seems most people think of bitcoin as a corporation like paypal with only difference being that paypal can be reversed, and bitcoin cannot.

[Mickeyb]

...
I wanted to run my own Bitcoin Core too. The problem is.. my computer is an old computer that left with only ~ 27 GB of diskspace. :/. I have no choice but to use a third-party to store my Bitcoin.

Or you could just use light-weight client (i.e. Multibit), you won't run a node but you do have control over your private keys. It's a nice middle-ground between Bitcoin Core and Online wallets.

I second this. Electrum, Multibit are great lite weight wallets. There are other options as well if this doesn't suits you! I personally am using Electrum since I don't have a powerful enough machine to run a Core!

[jacktheking]

...
I wanted to run my own Bitcoin Core too. The problem is.. my computer is an old computer that left with only ~ 27 GB of diskspace. :/. I have no choice but to use a third-party to store my Bitcoin.

Or you could just use light-weight client (i.e. Multibit), you won't run a node but you do have control over your private keys. It's a nice middle-ground between Bitcoin Core and Online wallets.

Thanks for the suggestion. My first wallet was MultiBit and I still have it on computer. I dont use them because I find Mycelium Android wallet is faster and simpler. I am considering to spread my Bitcoin over both of them when I have more Bitcoin. Currently I have less than 0.2 BTC.

Same thing happened to me as OP, I got to know about bitcoin from TBN which I regularly visited for some fun botted methods, now that I find you can way more money here by doing virtually nothing, I don't even bother going there.

Haha. You are right. I think Bitcointalk already "steal" lots of members from another forums to theirs. LoL.

[BADecker]

The two things I see wrong with Bitcoin are...

1. No cash.

2. Because of its nature, Bitcoin plays on the ideas of trust that we have in the way money works. What should be done is that there should be much more advertising about the fact that real trust is involved, even in escrow to some extent.

Fiat is fairly trustworthy in direct transactions. You can trust business because the banks will enforce business to do the right thing in many cases.

Since there is no central bank involved with Bitcoin, there is little method for enforcing trust. Bitcoin tries to overcome this to some extent with escrow transactions. But people are not used to the way Bitcoin handles things. So they jump right in.

[DarkHyudrA]

People need more info about how the exchange works.
All of the process works as a financial operation, so lots of bureaucracy is envolved.

[n2004al]

He had a bad experience but, to tell the truth, I don't understand its behavior after. He can open another wallet with another provider and send from the primary wallet to the secondary wallet an insignificant amount. Will see all with his eyes . Everything will be instantly. With no any loss. That's can prove that all its experience it was a problem connected not with the bitcoin but with its management from the others. This try, I think, it will be enough that he understand all about its experience and the reliability of bitcoin.

[thejaytiesto]

Hopefully with Gemini exchange things will get more serious. The user support should be good there. I still think we will never get full mainstream without jobs being paid in BTC being a thing. When you get paid directly in BTC it feels waay better than having to buy it first. When you have to buy BTC you will never spend it, you will just hoard and use it as gold.

[edric]

There are plenty of ways to get Bitcoin immediately whether linking your credit card to an exchange for instant purchase or an ATM or local exchange.  Sure, there are scams and bad customer service, but if someone wants to get into Bitcoin bad enough they will.  Hopefully people see the bigger picture- the fundamental proposition of owning Bitcoin.  If they let some inconvenience stop them they are missing the big picture.   

[jacktheking]

The two things I see wrong with Bitcoin are...

1. No cash.

2. Because of its nature, Bitcoin plays on the ideas of trust that we have in the way money works. What should be done is that there should be much more advertising about the fact that real trust is involved, even in escrow to some extent.

Fiat is fairly trustworthy in direct transactions. You can trust business because the banks will enforce business to do the right thing in many cases.

Since there is no central bank involved with Bitcoin, there is little method for enforcing trust. Bitcoin tries to overcome this to some extent with escrow transactions. But people are not used to the way Bitcoin handles things. So they jump right in.

Yeah. So as many others have mentioned, they should spend sometime on Bitcointalk before they buy Bitcoin. In the meantime, they could also use faucet to "learn" how Bitcoin work - what is confirmation, what is mining, what is a block etc.

Well, that's pretty huge misunderstanding.
He/She don't understand bitcoin concept & got bad support from exchange

Bitcoin won't be popular if people can't understand bitcoin concept or got bad experience when they start use bitcoin or they just don't really care about it.

Yes. If she got a good support from the customer service operator, things may not turn out this way.

He had a bad experience but, to tell the truth, I don't understand its behavior after. He can open another wallet with another provider and send from the primary wallet to the secondary wallet an insignificant amount. Will see all with his eyes . Everything will be instantly. With no any loss. That's can prove that all its experience it was a problem connected not with the bitcoin but with its management from the others. This try, I think, it will be enough that he understand all about its experience and the reliability of bitcoin.

A good suggestion. I already told Teg to quickly move her coin from the "exchange" wallet to a new wallet on a trusted party - or even host her own Bitcoin Core. I'm not sure if Teg is going to do this or not.

Hopefully with Gemini exchange things will get more serious. The user support should be good there. I still think we will never get full mainstream without jobs being paid in BTC being a thing. When you get paid directly in BTC it feels waay better than having to buy it first. When you have to buy BTC you will never spend it, you will just hoard and use it as gold.

Well said. I hope that Gemini exchange will look study Teg case and have a better support team.

There are plenty of ways to get Bitcoin immediately whether linking your credit card to an exchange for instant purchase or an ATM or local exchange.  Sure, there are scams and bad customer service, but if someone wants to get into Bitcoin bad enough they will.  Hopefully people see the bigger picture- the fundamental proposition of owning Bitcoin.  If they let some inconvenience stop them they are missing the big picture.   

I understand what you are saying. I hope that Teg will continue to learn and use Bitcoin because it is going to be helpful in the future - when Bitcoin go mainstream.

[Hugroll]

i can emphasize Teg's situation, but its wrong to hate the entire bitcoin currency or idea just because you've had one bad experience with obtaining the coin. there's no reason to hate bitcoin here

[Q7]

I think it's kind of unfair that this type of blame is directed towards bitcoin even though it is actually the fault of the exchanger trying to prey on newbies. I think it would help if we have some kind of official list that shows trusted exchangers and with their rating which has been endorsed by the community which are of high quality that can be used as a guide to help newbies instead of they going about and clicking on the next ad that they see. It has to be some kind of official list and not something plucked from local blog.

Anyway, it still goes back to the person to carry out some background check and take all the precautions but that is one of the ways we can help them to ensure things went smooth.

[jacktheking]

i can emphasize Teg's situation, but its wrong to hate the entire bitcoin currency or idea just because you've had one bad experience with obtaining the coin. there's no reason to hate bitcoin here

Well. Teg thought that Bitcoin was a company and not a decentralized service. Teg thought the the customer service operator was from the company of Bitcoin.

I think it's kind of unfair that this type of blame is directed towards bitcoin even though it is actually the fault of the exchanger trying to prey on newbies. I think it would help if we have some kind of official list that shows trusted exchangers and with their rating which has been endorsed by the community which are of high quality that can be used as a guide to help newbies instead of they going about and clicking on the next ad that they see. It has to be some kind of official list and not something plucked from local blog.

Anyway, it still goes back to the person to carry out some background check and take all the precautions but that is one of the ways we can help them to ensure things went smooth.

Bitcoin.org link user to this website which list many exchanges - http://howtobuybitcoins.info/. There are so many exchanges listed and... some of them can be trusted while others cant.
Also, when someone search for Bitcoin on Google.com, the first two results is not Bitcoin.org but exchanges advertisement.

[Soros Shorts]

I will stop using bitcoin the day i can no longer use a full node.
Never use a website to host your wallet people.

Well I just ordered the parts to assemble an i7-5930K based computer for running a dedicated full node at home. I'm curious to see how fast the Haswell-E can chew up the 1MB blocks when downloading the blockchain for the first time.

Not only should you not let other people host your private keys, but you should also not leave the verification and transmission of transactions to others. I too will quit when a high-end computer can no longer run a full node at home.

[mallard]

Which exchange did she actually use?
The only site I see mentioned in the thread is Bitcoin.org