December 2015 "Fastest Crypto" Bake-Off (topic locked)

[skywave]

I am excited about eMunie and what it can bring to the table.
That does not mean that I'm wearing blinkers.
If Ethereum, Bitshares, NXT or any other project turns out to be beneficial to my requirements, then for sure I will positively buy into those projects as well.
But for now eMunie has shown me that it is going to be the best project to fulfill my requirements as a future financial package.
I shall keep myself enlightened to other projects all the time.

The upcoming bake-off is one I look forward to with joy and curiosity. My competitive soul is triggered Shall be fun indeed

[wingspan]

added another bullet on the OP:

• During the 100-minute test, with the random shutdowns I'll purposely perform, I will make sure on average the node software will be allowed to run (and I'll be doing the "E" and "C" instructions as fast as I can) 75% of the time.   In other words, 25% of the available time the nodes will be not running the node software.  While some of that 75% uptime will be re-syncing per the "E" instructions, hopefully the syncing will be quick so "C" instructions can crank out new transactions ASAP.  If the new transactions at best will reach, for example, 11.1 per second per node, and if syncing is near instantaneous (for the sake of this calculation), the best score you'd possibly get is 11.1 * 60 * 75 * 20 = ~ 1 million.

[r0ach]

And it's the (lack of) camaraderie such as this being the principal reason why I don't post over here very often. 

Peachy, what are you smoking?  Emunie might have fundamentals, maybe it won't, we won't know until it's released.  What we do know is, every single post you've ever made on this forum has been done for no reason other than to try and hype Emunie.  For any camaraderie to exist, you would have to of talked about some other topic at some point time besides trying to enrich yourself by getting others to use Emunie.  You're like one of those people that knocks on doors at 6am trying to convert you to some religion, like a Jehovah's witness.  What is there to have camaraderie about?  It would be different if you ever made a single post about some kind of other topic, but you haven't.

This is a classic example of how any currency, whether it's fiat, gold, silver, anything, is all a pyramid scheme.  You have to try and con other people into using it to have value.  Like telling people gold is valuable when it's mostly just a useless lump of metal.  The other option is providing some kind of utility not found in the currency they already use.  The problem there is, there are now many currencies that offer benefits like this with things like decentralized exchanges, hedging in smart coins/prediction markets, etc.  The problem with Emunie in this regard, is that due to the way the monetary system works, you would make less money being an Emunie early adopter than something like a Bitcoin or Bitshares early adopter.

It's like telling people to use Freicoin instead of Bitcoin.  You're telling people to act irrationally when they could make more money supporting something else when the main benefactor is just going to be the guy who issues the IPO. This is one of the things that bothers me about Emunie.  In a prisoner's dilema scenario where everyone's goal is to maximize profit from investment, there's probably not going to be any prisoners choosing Emunie over another viable Bitcoin competitor.

For scalability, Emunie and Bitshares can both get the job done in displacing Bitcoin, but people will simply make more money supporting Bitshares.  Emunie also seems difficult to function as a native currency that's not pegged to dollars or something else as well from this Fuserleer quote:

There has always been a monetary incentive to invest, but as with the tech, people were approaching it with a Bitcoin based mindset.

eMunie will attempt to stabilize itself, as has been the goal since the inception of the project.  The key difference is, there are 2 variables that effect ROI, instead of just 1 with a fixed currency amount model like Bitcoin.

The value of an individual unit can increase/decrease over the long term, but the amount of currency in circulation can also increase/decrease.  In a growth situation, which will be typical from day-0 for a period of time, the ROI comes from an increased holding of currency and not so much from an increase in price per unit.

This is due to new supply being distributed around both holders of deposits on account (interest) and to service nodes for doing work.

So for example, if you were to hold 100 EMU @ $0.10 each, and the price didn't move but the demand doubled, you'd end up with 150 EMU @ $0.10 (the other 50 going to service nodes that have done work).  If then the price was to rise by a cent, you'd have 150 @ $0.11...a 65% increase overall.

From the systems point of view, a change in supply if possible (in either direction) is always a preference to a change in price.

[skywave]

@r0ach

You appear to have an opinion, and judge anyone and anything, which obviously is your choice, but please wait with judging eMunie before it is even finished and out as a beta.
Once it is, and you have given it a good spin, well then you can rightfully judge it
Before that - all your elaborate talking points about it will mostly be hypothetical.
Granted, some of your talk may be correct, based on what @Fuserleer has disclosed in public, but eMunie is still evolving so not everything is set in stone yet.

I'm sure we are all aware that folks who are involved with eMunie, or any other similar project for that matter, are not so ignorant to think eMunie is the only valid one out there.
There may be other projects competing for that.
In the end the decision will be up to the consumers and the 'masses' who will be using it in their daily life.
The crypto community in here are, mostly, all biased towards their preferred flavour which they coincidentially bumped into, and then 'defend' it at all costs, which sometimes are a bit out of tune imo.
It's hard, or impossible, to please and agree with so many talented and stubborn personalities in here

Sometimes I'd wish to meet many of you folks in here in real life - hey - it might turn out that the ones I dislike most from what they write in here, would be someones that I would converse well with person to person.
An almost anonymous avatar is not really a good way to know each other, but then again it's not a 'find-your-perfect-partner' forum

[Fuserleer]

And it's the (lack of) camaraderie such as this being the principal reason why I don't post over here very often.  

The problem with Emunie in this regard, is that due to the way the monetary system works, you would make less money being an Emunie early adopter than something like a Bitcoin or Bitshares early adopter.

I've said this over and over from day one, that it has never been intended that eMunie makes everyone tons of fiat and provides a crazy a ROI.  The intention is that eMunie allows you to truly step away from fiat if you wish, or use it as a true alternative, and any ROI is a side effect of that and growth.

Isn't that supposed to be the true end goal here?

[traumschiff]

Agree with r0ach here, the contest has 0 sense if a closed source non-released project can take part in it, which has 0 days runtime in a normal enviroment. No offense, the project can be 100% legit, but that doesn't change the point.

[sidhujag]

Emunie wont work, bts for the win

[patmast3r]

Emunie wont work, bts for the win

Very eloquently put and your arguments make a lot of sense. Thanks!

[Fuserleer]

So basically....these arguments attempting to justify why eMunie should not be allowed to participate, simply paints a picture that everyone is running scared, even though its just meant to be for a bit of fun.

If that was not the case, then a large portion of all those developers who ever made claims about the speed of their crypto wouldn't care about eMunie still being in development, closed source, or whatever other weak justification for disallowing entry, so long as the results were fair and verifiable (which they would be).

In that case, eMunie will withdraw from the competition....we don't need to take part anymore

PS...Dont forget that I believe CFB was also planning on entering his in-development, non-released crypto....

[sidhujag]

he has 868 posts for a reason  

Thats not a post count. Got way more than that

[wingspan]

I'm trying to measure with this bake-off just the first one of 14 attributes of a good crypto.  I understand it isn't measuring the best overall crypto.  Please don't assume any crypto can't be the best based on present development or code review status.  We each pick a favorite - but the more objective data, the better.  And having a little fun, doesn't hurt, either.

IMO, here are 14 attributes that make a good crypto candidate trying to go mainstream:

• Has (or designed to have) the technical capacity to replace all fiat transactions (sustain 100K TPS) whenever needed.
• Is 100% decentralized. It can not be controlled except by the majority of the public.
• Has (or designed to have) a stable price and one's savings are safe from being devalued.
• Has (or plans to have) good marketing.  Has cool characteristics that might appeal to billions.
• Is secure (supports 2FA, etc).
• Is easy (like a debit card).
• Is cheap to use (nearly free).
• Does not waste energy or resources.
• Is as private/anonymous as a user wants.
• Fair distribution opportunities - no insider advantage before nor after launch. Everyone is rewarded in proportion for the work performed and the money risked.
• Has endured long-running global tests.
• All code has undergone (and will continue to undergo) thorough code review (by trusted third parties) before going into production.
• Is well documented.
• Is flexible, modular, or has promise in helping society in new ways not yet invented.

Of course having the following additional attributes help - but impossible for new cryptos - takes time:

• Has a large network effect behind it - a large ecosystem - lots of merchants, infrastructure.
• Has proven security where years have gone by without a major core breach.

-cheers.

[traumschiff]

So basically....these arguments attempting to justify why eMunie should not be allowed to participate, simply paints a picture that everyone is running scared, even though its just meant to be for a bit of fun.

You can't be serious mate, proving something in crypto with closed source software/client?

And you even try to taunt people when being asked to release first and compete after.

[Fuserleer]

There are other developers that expressed interest to take part with unfinished projects....I don't see them getting asked to not participate, so how else do you expect these arguments to get viewed?

It doesn't matter if its closed source or not, the ledger is public so the results can be verified in this particular test case as its sheer volume of transactions.

Edit: In fact in this particular instance, I would argue that closed source is BETTER and FAIRER, as the OP could not modify any participating client to under/over perform depending on any bias he may have.

[smoothie]

There are other developers that expressed interest to take part with unfinished projects....I don't see them getting asked to not participate, so how else do you expect these arguments to get viewed?

It doesn't matter if its closed source or not, the ledger is public so the results can be verified in this particular test case as its sheer volume of transactions.

Edit: In fact in this particular instance, I would argue that closed source is BETTER and FAIRER, as the OP could not modify any participating client to under/over perform depending on any bias he may have.

This is assuming there are no malicious lines of code to secretly send your bitcoin or other alt coins to the developers address who created the binaries you are running.

Closed source when dealing with crypto is a very bad idea no matter which way you spin it.

[billotronic]

There are other developers that expressed interest to take part with unfinished projects....I don't see them getting asked to not participate, so how else do you expect these arguments to get viewed?

It doesn't matter if its closed source or not, the ledger is public so the results can be verified in this particular test case as its sheer volume of transactions.

Edit: In fact in this particular instance, I would argue that closed source is BETTER and FAIRER, as the OP could not modify any participating client to under/over perform depending on any bias he may have.

EXCEPT being closed source means that no one can independently verify how your 'results' were achieved hence, useless. I can make an app that spews out a bunch of bs too.

release the client dan or else all you and crew are doing is cluttering up these already cluttered shit forums.

[wingspan]

I'm locking this thread - it appears the same arguments are being discussed without progress.... and some folks are actually against honest participation.

I'll still run the bake-off (assuming I get more than 1 entry), and everything in the OP still applies, but we don't need this thread to stay open for that.

-cheers,
- Wingspan.