Is forum escrow still safe?

[Quickseller]

even the escrows leaving a rating for the people using their services as it doesn't make the members trustworthy just because they used an escrow.

As a general rule, I will not leave a positive trust rating for someone who has used my escrow service, an exception being someone who I have escrowed many deals for, allowing me to see that they engage in a practice of honest trading (eg are quick to reply, are quick to ship, keeps the other party informed of the situation).

Also FWIW, I had never left myself a positive trust rating (except for testing purposes that were removed after a few minutes), which for the most part would eliminate any concerns about myself looking more trustworthy then they otherwise might be.

I do agree that interacting with an escrow prior to the trade does allow you to get the feeling as if they can/should be trusted with your money.

[Vod]

Personally, I don't care if a person has alts.  I care if they LIE about having alts, like Quickseller did.  Quickseller is a liar.

You lie once, how can we trust anything you post ever again?   

[FruitsBasket]

even the escrows leaving a rating for the people using their services as it doesn't make the members trustworthy just because they used an escrow.

As a general rule, I will not leave a positive trust rating for someone who has used my escrow service, an exception being someone who I have escrowed many deals for, allowing me to see that they engage in a practice of honest trading (eg are quick to reply, are quick to ship, keeps the other party informed of the situation).

Also FWIW, I had never left myself a positive trust rating (except for testing purposes that were removed after a few minutes), which for the most part would eliminate any concerns about myself looking more trustworthy then they otherwise might be.

I do agree that interacting with an escrow prior to the trade does allow you to get the feeling as if they can/should be trusted with your money.

Hi quickseller,

I have heard many people talk about your "escrow for yourself". I think it is bad, i dont know the transaction amounts, but yeah that doesnt really matter, it is the principe. I think you deserve better but the problem is that you have been lying about your ban. Which people will trust someone again who has been lying?

[Quickseller]

even the escrows leaving a rating for the people using their services as it doesn't make the members trustworthy just because they used an escrow.

As a general rule, I will not leave a positive trust rating for someone who has used my escrow service, an exception being someone who I have escrowed many deals for, allowing me to see that they engage in a practice of honest trading (eg are quick to reply, are quick to ship, keeps the other party informed of the situation).

Also FWIW, I had never left myself a positive trust rating (except for testing purposes that were removed after a few minutes), which for the most part would eliminate any concerns about myself looking more trustworthy then they otherwise might be.

I do agree that interacting with an escrow prior to the trade does allow you to get the feeling as if they can/should be trusted with your money.

Hi quickseller,

I have heard many people talk about your "escrow for yourself". I think it is bad, i dont know the transaction amounts, but yeah that doesnt really matter, it is the principe. I think you deserve better but the problem is that you have been lying about your ban. Which people will trust someone again who has been lying?

I think there is a pretty big difference between lying about something that gives you an advantage when you are believed and lying about an immaterial fact when the truth to such fact does not impact the outcome of anything material.

[Vod]

I think there is a pretty big difference between lying about something that gives you an advantage when you are believed and lying about an immaterial fact when the truth to such fact does not impact the outcome of anything material.

I think lying is lying.  Regardless if you lie about being banned, or if you lie about not being a particular member. (Both which you did)

I suppose only a psychopath would feel that lying is OK....

[Quickseller]

I think there is a pretty big difference between lying about something that gives you an advantage when you are believed and lying about an immaterial fact when the truth to such fact does not impact the outcome of anything material.

I think lying is lying.  Regardless if you lie about being banned, or if you lie about not being a particular member. (Both which you did)

I suppose only a psychopath would feel that lying is OK....

You have never been asked if you have a piece of gum by someone who you did not wish to give away a piece of gum, when you in fact were in possession of a piece of gum?.....

[onemorexmr]

I think there is a pretty big difference between lying about something that gives you an advantage when you are believed and lying about an immaterial fact when the truth to such fact does not impact the outcome of anything material.

I think lying is lying.  Regardless if you lie about being banned, or if you lie about not being a particular member. (Both which you did)

I suppose only a psychopath would feel that lying is OK....

You have never been asked if you have a piece of gum by someone who you did not wish to give away a piece of gum, when you in fact were in possession of a piece of gum?.....

thats the difference: if you dont want someone to give a piece of gum to: be a man and tell him the reason.

lying is bad. always.
it doesnt help either: not even in the case you mentioned, because he will ask you again...and so you have to keep lying. and if he see you a few minutes later given a gum to a nice girl its much worse for him.

[Vod]

QS is telling us he can justify lying to himself - he will not feel bad about lying to us in the future.

That is not a safe forum escrow.  

[Quickseller]

I think there is a pretty big difference between lying about something that gives you an advantage when you are believed and lying about an immaterial fact when the truth to such fact does not impact the outcome of anything material.

I think lying is lying.  Regardless if you lie about being banned, or if you lie about not being a particular member. (Both which you did)

I suppose only a psychopath would feel that lying is OK....

You have never been asked if you have a piece of gum by someone who you did not wish to give away a piece of gum, when you in fact were in possession of a piece of gum?.....

thats the difference: if you dont want someone to give a piece of gum to: be a man and tell him the reason.

lying is bad. always.
it doesnt help either: not even in the case you mentioned, because he will ask you again...and so you have to keep lying. and if he see you a few minutes later given a gum to a nice girl its much worse for him.

While avoiding the philosophical discussion about if lying is bad, even when it is a white lie. I think it is fair to say that if someone is caught lying about not having a piece of gum then the ability to trust them in the future would not be affected.

If an escrow is caught lying about a minute issue then a rational person would still trust that person with their money if they otherwise would trust them with their money.

[Anmol_Verma]

After the Quickseller story i wonder if its still safe or should i ask is there any sense to use forum escrow or not ?

I think it's safe as long is the escrow is mentioned in the daily updated list of the forum and is having huge green trust.
Without escrow it will not be possible to trade on this forum.

[FruitsBasket]

After the Quickseller story i wonder if its still safe or should i ask is there any sense to use forum escrow or not ?

I think it's safe as long is the escrow is mentioned in the daily updated list of the forum and is having huge green trust.
Without escrow it will not be possible to trade on this forum.

Big escrows will not scam for a tiny amount, when doing big deals, do them in parts, to prevent a very big loss.
Don't trust an escrow randomly, use an escrow which has done many deals and is very transparent. Always look at the escrows trust before using their service.

And yeah, the escrow list shows very reputable escrows only, so when u trade, pick one of them.

[mixan]

Yes forum escrow is still safe,if one user missused the escrow then it doesn't means all other escrow are also bad
they are doing great job and helping people complete the trade with safety,there are a many high trusted that you can use for escrow

[tspacepilot]

The reply by OgNasty on page one really sums it up. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1204573.msg12644929#msg12644929

Use someone with a long history of escrowing successfully, 1 year of experience + thousands of posts + lots of drama and accusations going and coming adds up to hype, not trustworthiness.

With respect to Quickseller's long-winded, unsolicited self-defense post on page one (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1204573.msg12661093#msg12661093), I just want to point out that again and again he suggests that anyone who is rational will agree with him.  His mental model of the world doesn't allow states where he is incorrect and someone else is correct.  Much less the nuanced situations that occur constantly in life where to some extent, many people are correct in conflicting ways.  Even now, he fails to see that he's scammed countless people (well, presumably he knows the count, but we'll never know it) by collecting escrow fees from them without actually providing them an escrow.  He thinks that if you're trading with him, you deserve to pay an extra fee for the comfort his reputation is supposed to give you.  He fails to see that a rational person could actually end up in a dispute with him and that he'd be unable to provide a neutral arbiter in that context.  Alas, so it goes.

If I were going to engage in trading on here, I'd be looking for an escrow with a long history of trading, but also someone who doesn't engage in wars and defamations and accusations and who doesn't have an army of alt-shills to back them up in an argument.  Ie, I'd be looking for someone with a level-head.  You can still find these people on bitcointalk, but quickseller has never been one of them.  The thing about having a level-head is that it doesn't draw much attention, so that kinda person doesn't have 100 accusation threads against them in meta, so that kinda person isn't the first one you think of when you think of forum escrows.   I fully believe that those kinds of people are still around and that careful people can trade here safely.