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Author Topic: Lets prove to the world that money is an addiction on non-scarce things  (Read 1476 times)
BenRayfield
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October 10, 2015, 12:18:47 AM
Last edit: October 10, 2015, 12:36:35 AM by BenRayfield
 #1

Money is often used to motivate others to do things but they dont know why, and in exchange they can motivate others the same way and those others dont know why, and so on. This created a problem in people motiving eachother to do bad things, so governments stepped in and regulated that ability to motivate eachother. I thank them for the original attempt to prevent those bad things people cause eachother to do, but today governments have fallen victim to the same influence of money they originally started regulating others to prevent, the difference being only governments are allowed to be corrupt and use money for bad things.

Please do not regulate while under the influence of money.

Money is a great tool to organize scarce resources. Its such a great tool for that, people started using it for things theres already enough of, like owning ideas (patents), food (like seedless watermelon DNA), and the right to trade freely in new kinds of competing money. It went too far when peoples motivation, their own goals, were squashed by money commonly known by the phrase "get back to work". People try to make others value money more than its actual value, in part because that gives them more value of the money they hold, and the more dangerous part is because money has a mind of its own, our minds, and it has commanded us (through laws, for example) to help it reproduce. Its alive. And I dont want any out of control life form motivating me to do things which I dont know why I should want to do.

I see work as any vauable thing you do. If the product of that work is not scarce, then I provide more value to the world by not connecting it with money. We should want more people to do this when they have enough of other things. They usually dont have enough of other things because the ways central currencies are used are to contain peoples motivation, not to be a tool where people can motivate eachother, but to contain the motivating of eachother inside where that currency is normally used like only between certain countries and only if you think certain ways, that you allow that currency to motivate you more than other currencies, because if you offer other currencies in trade to a local store they usually make you wait a few days while it transfers between countries or various systems. They are in an incompatibility war, and we are the casualties. Lets prove to the world that money is an addiction on non-scarce things.

So I decided to give bitcoin another try, this time not primarily as an investment which I think will soon gain value to trade for other currencies, but instead as a better way to motivate eachother, especially inside tor where that is I believe the place it is normally used.

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thejaytiesto
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October 10, 2015, 02:21:17 AM
 #2

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.
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October 10, 2015, 02:46:25 AM
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So I decided to give bitcoin another try, this time not primarily as an investment which I think will soon gain value to trade for other currencies, but instead as a better way to motivate eachother, especially inside tor where that is I believe the place it is normally used.
What do you mean by using bitcoin as a way to motivate each other?
Isn't that exactly why we use money in the first place?

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October 10, 2015, 03:42:44 PM
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Money is often used to motivate others to do things but they dont know why...

I think everyone knows why money motivates them. It's because money is the medium our society has agreed to use to exchange for goods and services. If I need my car fixed I can give someone money exchange for that service. If I need clothes I can give someone money for those goods. If someone needs my services/skills they can hire me in exchange for money.

Money is easier to use then a barter system because I don't have to need whatever you have to give (as I would in a barter system), money becomes a standard format of currency that can be accepted by everyone at any time.

The manipulation of the money supply and debt to finance things that Governments or people can't afford is bad and we've all been a victim to it. The best thing we can do is limit the debt we use in our personal lives and then preach that Governments do the same.

Harry Hood
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October 10, 2015, 03:45:52 PM
 #5

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

One correction, bitcoin is not very durable. If we lose electricity we lose all ability to transact with bitcoin - so in a society crisis situation, bitcoin becomes useless. Think about Haiti after the earthquake a few years back, no electricity for a long time. If everyone was using bitcoin their funds would be frozen until electricity was restored.

And the only think keeping 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars is that not enough people want to use it - there isn't enough supply.

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October 10, 2015, 06:38:37 PM
 #6

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

One correction, bitcoin is not very durable. If we lose electricity we lose all ability to transact with bitcoin - so in a society crisis situation, bitcoin becomes useless. Think about Haiti after the earthquake a few years back, no electricity for a long time. If everyone was using bitcoin their funds would be frozen until electricity was restored.

And the only think keeping 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars is that not enough people want to use it - there isn't enough supply.

The electricity would need to go out WORLDWIDE. So what if it goes off in Haiti? the network keeps working. If you have your stuff on a bank and it gets flooded, you couldn't use that stuff as well. With Bitcoin you can save your stuff online, have several backups etc, it's better.
Guido
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October 10, 2015, 09:59:05 PM
 #7

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

great post my friend

'they' are trying this whole, its the blockchain, not bitcoin thats important, right now
wanting to build their own blockchains
good luck with that lol
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October 11, 2015, 12:13:26 AM
 #8

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

One correction, bitcoin is not very durable. If we lose electricity we lose all ability to transact with bitcoin - so in a society crisis situation, bitcoin becomes useless. Think about Haiti after the earthquake a few years back, no electricity for a long time. If everyone was using bitcoin their funds would be frozen until electricity was restored.

And the only think keeping 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars is that not enough people want to use it - there isn't enough supply.

The electricity would need to go out WORLDWIDE. So what if it goes off in Haiti? the network keeps working. If you have your stuff on a bank and it gets flooded, you couldn't use that stuff as well. With Bitcoin you can save your stuff online, have several backups etc, it's better.

Also, the Bitcoin aren't gone, maybe you can't access them for a while, but they're still there when you get your power back. Unlike dollars which might have been destroyed in a fire.
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October 11, 2015, 03:03:39 AM
 #9

The electricity would need to go out WORLDWIDE. So what if it goes off in Haiti? the network keeps working. If you have your stuff on a bank and it gets flooded, you couldn't use that stuff as well. With Bitcoin you can save your stuff online, have several backups etc, it's better.
Giant ass solar flare can completely fry every single electronic and everything that uses electricity. Although not having bitcoin would be the least of our worries if that happened.
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October 11, 2015, 04:41:36 AM
 #10

money is a medium of exchange to meet the needs of
human life, but now it becomes the purpose of life

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pitham1
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October 12, 2015, 12:44:23 AM
 #11

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

Those features are true about cryptos in general. So maybe it will be some alt (not Bitcoin) that will be worth a billion dollars as you propose.  Smiley

sekaiissobig
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October 12, 2015, 01:07:37 AM
 #12

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

For the predictable source, I am quite worried for future after see this article
http://www.vox.com/2015/8/18/9168977/bitcoin-constitutional-crisis
Changing the limit is easy — if everyone agrees
They have intention to change the limit of supply of bitcoin?!
The development of bitcoin with just such a short time of history, they already have this intention?

jaysabi
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October 12, 2015, 03:13:08 AM
 #13

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

This is a great chart, I'll be saving this for future reference. But the idea that bitcoin should be at a billion dollars is the type of statement that proves how untethered to reality the bitcoin community is. Just because bitcoin may be an improvement over fiat does not give it such a ridiculous value.
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October 12, 2015, 03:21:25 AM
 #14

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

This is a great chart, I'll be saving this for future reference. But the idea that bitcoin should be at a billion dollars is the type of statement that proves how untethered to reality the bitcoin community is. Just because bitcoin may be an improvement over fiat does not give it such a ridiculous value.

As a follow-up on just how unreasonable a billion dollar bitcoin price is, M2 - which is the broadest measure of money in the US economy - is 12.138 trillion dollars. There are currently 14.7 million bitcoins. If each one was worth a billion dollars, that would be 14,700 trillion dollars, or 1200 times the amount of money currently in circulation. Simply put, there aren't enough USD in the world to even make a billion dollar bitcoin price possible.
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October 12, 2015, 06:51:48 AM
 #15

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

This is a great chart, I'll be saving this for future reference. But the idea that bitcoin should be at a billion dollars is the type of statement that proves how untethered to reality the bitcoin community is. Just because bitcoin may be an improvement over fiat does not give it such a ridiculous value.

There is just one problem with that chart. It is clearly built to make bitcoin look good. The points that are on there are mainly traits of bitcoin that are projected on the other two.

I don't see "physical" on there for instance or "tradable on mount everest for a hot chocolate" for instance.

It only summarizes postives for bitcoin, not the negatives, which imo should also be done.
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October 12, 2015, 07:08:32 AM
 #16

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

This is a great chart, I'll be saving this for future reference. But the idea that bitcoin should be at a billion dollars is the type of statement that proves how untethered to reality the bitcoin community is. Just because bitcoin may be an improvement over fiat does not give it such a ridiculous value.

There is just one problem with that chart. It is clearly built to make bitcoin look good. The points that are on there are mainly traits of bitcoin that are projected on the other two.

I don't see "physical" on there for instance or "tradable on mount everest for a hot chocolate" for instance.

It only summarizes postives for bitcoin, not the negatives, which imo should also be done.

"Tradable on mount Everest for a hot chocolate": this is ultimately true.
Let's not forget BTC is bound to the Internet and the availability of it.
No Internet, no BTC.

Let's not forget it.

You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough
jaysabi
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October 13, 2015, 02:13:53 AM
 #17

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

This is a great chart, I'll be saving this for future reference. But the idea that bitcoin should be at a billion dollars is the type of statement that proves how untethered to reality the bitcoin community is. Just because bitcoin may be an improvement over fiat does not give it such a ridiculous value.

There is just one problem with that chart. It is clearly built to make bitcoin look good. The points that are on there are mainly traits of bitcoin that are projected on the other two.

I don't see "physical" on there for instance or "tradable on mount everest for a hot chocolate" for instance.

It only summarizes postives for bitcoin, not the negatives, which imo should also be done.

Good point. That's actually a major weakness. On a related note, there's a shared delusion by bitcoin enthusiasts, especially on this board, that if fiat collapses, bitcoin is going to suddenly be worth thousands of dollars. This is ridiculous to believe because if fiat collapses, it means the world economy is falling apart and there is likely mass civil unrest. No possible way bitcoin can thrive in an environment like that. If the USD goes to zero, bitcoin goes right along with it because bitcoin will have even less utility than it does now in a time of mass civil unrest and economic collapse. The only thing that gives bitcoin any value is economic stability, that people feel secure enough to speculate on it.
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October 14, 2015, 01:10:09 AM
 #18

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

This is a great chart, I'll be saving this for future reference. But the idea that bitcoin should be at a billion dollars is the type of statement that proves how untethered to reality the bitcoin community is. Just because bitcoin may be an improvement over fiat does not give it such a ridiculous value.

There is just one problem with that chart. It is clearly built to make bitcoin look good. The points that are on there are mainly traits of bitcoin that are projected on the other two.

I don't see "physical" on there for instance or "tradable on mount everest for a hot chocolate" for instance.

It only summarizes postives for bitcoin, not the negatives, which imo should also be done.

There is one negative mark against crypto for "sovereign".
I don't really think "physical" is a necessary attribute.
If you have a million dollars, most probably all you have is an entry against your bitcoin and not physical bills.  Smiley

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October 14, 2015, 03:42:04 AM
 #19

Bitcoin is objectively the best form of money



the problem is we lack the insane monstrious infraestructure of the state, and that's violence monopoly and basically mass acceptance. Those two things are the only things that aren't allowing making 1 Bitcoin = 1 Billion dollars, where it should be if people used the objectively, best, most updated version of money we've ever seen.

This is a great chart, I'll be saving this for future reference. But the idea that bitcoin should be at a billion dollars is the type of statement that proves how untethered to reality the bitcoin community is. Just because bitcoin may be an improvement over fiat does not give it such a ridiculous value.

There is just one problem with that chart. It is clearly built to make bitcoin look good. The points that are on there are mainly traits of bitcoin that are projected on the other two.

I don't see "physical" on there for instance or "tradable on mount everest for a hot chocolate" for instance.

It only summarizes postives for bitcoin, not the negatives, which imo should also be done.

There is one negative mark against crypto for "sovereign".
I don't really think "physical" is a necessary attribute.
If you have a million dollars, most probably all you have is an entry against your bitcoin and not physical bills.  Smiley

It's true that large quantities of dollars are for the most part represented digitally, but they don't have to be. They can be converted to physical form. Bitcoin can't. In terms of benefit-detriment, this is one area where Bitcoin is less versatile than fiat.
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October 14, 2015, 07:57:30 AM
 #20

I don't know whether I should call that as "greed" but sometimes the primary motivator is not because we earn to fulfill our needs but because our mind has become so obsessed in it that we forget the ultimate objective as to why and how. I never take bitcoin as an investment. If it does become big, yeah, then so what? I'm not going to exchange it back to fiat because it will mean losing what I believe in the first place.

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