bitbattle.me - no deposit, instant bets, ZERO waiting! 0-conf accepted!

[Herbert]

Is there a way to keep a session of single-player bets open for more than about a minute? I'm talking about hours or even a day...

During a minute, I hardly get to play more than a single bet, and there's practically no saving on blockchain bloat and miner-fees if I get each win paid out "almost immediately" and thus separately.

Currently the bet timeout is 75 seconds. This could be increased, but of course this means if you want to end a session early you have to wait longer.
Problem is that I don't want to add an "end session" button on the website - As the site works without accounts this button would be visible to everybody looking at your session. So  anybody could close your running session - Probably not what we want to have.
So the current value of 75 seconds is somewhat of a compromise. I am happy to adjust this in one or the other direction - I agree the if using the standard client or blockchain.info wallet for each placed bet you have to perform several mouse clicks, so the timeout is quite small. What is your opinion?

Having sessions last hours or days will probably not happen. To protect me from double-spends I am trying to make the win payout contain as much as possible "coins" (actually OutPoints) from your bets placed in the session. If a session would run for such a long time this could lead to huge transactions with several hundred InPoints, resulting in huge transaction fees. Besides UI issues that is another reason why I introduced the bets per session limit.

[AvL42]

Problem is that I don't want to add an "end session" button on the website - As the site works without accounts this button would be visible to everybody looking at your session. So  anybody could close your running session -

I don't understand the problem with that.   There's no way that "offender" could change the address, and the only "damage" would be causing an earlier payout, but that is by default already ways too early

e.g.: dailybitcoins also offers delayed payouts, and everyone could trigger payout for any address, but it's not really a problem.

[Herbert]

Problem is that I don't want to add an "end session" button on the website - As the site works without accounts this button would be visible to everybody looking at your session. So  anybody could close your running session -

I don't understand the problem with that.   There's no way that "offender" could change the address, and the only "damage" would be causing an earlier payout, but that is by default already ways too early

e.g.: dailybitcoins also offers delayed payouts, and everyone could trigger payout for any address, but it's not really a problem.

Hmm.. True, but still it would annoy the hell out of me if my sesssion would be closed by someone else. But i think we can just give it a test. With one of the next updates I will add the end session button and increase the bet and session timeouts.

[AvL42]

I don't understand the problem with that.   There's no way that "offender" could change the address, and the only "damage" would be causing an earlier payout, but that is by default already ways too early
e.g.: dailybitcoins also offers delayed payouts, and everyone could trigger payout for any address, but it's not really a problem.

Hmm.. True, but still it would annoy the hell out of me if my sesssion would be closed by someone else. But i think we can just give it a test. With one of the next updates I will add the end session button and increase the bet and session timeouts.

You mean someone ending it prematurely in 71 seconds? ;-)

Why does the payout even need to be tied to a session?  There's no concept of a session in dailybitcoins.
It just knows, how much it "owes" to each address, and on request pays it out.

Thanks in advance for the promised change!

[IXIslimIXI]

Problem is that I don't want to add an "end session" button on the website - As the site works without accounts this button would be visible to everybody looking at your session. So  anybody could close your running session -

I don't understand the problem with that.   There's no way that "offender" could change the address, and the only "damage" would be causing an earlier payout, but that is by default already ways too early

e.g.: dailybitcoins also offers delayed payouts, and everyone could trigger payout for any address, but it's not really a problem.

Hmm.. True, but still it would annoy the hell out of me if my sesssion would be closed by someone else. But i think we can just give it a test. With one of the next updates I will add the end session button and increase the bet and session timeouts.

I agree that it would piss me off if someone kept closing my sessions. It is much easier to keep track of my win\loss with the sessions and I like being able to see risk\win as a whole instead of having to do math. I gamble for fun... not because I want to add numbers.

Avl42, how in the hell are you only able to get one bet in per session? I usually get anywhere between 40 and 100 depending on which client I use.


Herbert, is there a reason you do not want to use accounts? I think it would be cool to have some account features. Like each person could customize their experience to his or her liking. For instance, end session buttons, constant sessions, hiding your account activity, things of this nature. All easily accomplished with accounts. So, just curious what brought on that decision to have no accounts? Don't take this as a request or something I see as a problem, just options and curiosity. I still think your site is number 1 out of all the Dice sites (even though I've lost about 800 bucks there. lmao)

[IXIslimIXI]

PS... I still am waiting to try out the multiplayer. Any body up for a game?

[AvL42]

Avl42, how in the hell are you only able to get one bet in per session?
I usually get anywhere between 40 and 100 depending on which client I use.

Well, to each as he likes it. I rather enjoy betting a little, like a few mBTC every hour or even
day, and I'd like to wait for a few wins added up, so the payout isn't substantially consumed
for fees.

Imho, that would be one big advantage over classic dice-games like satoshidice.
(another one being already the avoidance of those useless satoshi-payouts for losses.)

Btw., what could be anyone's motivation to end any other user's sessions (before the system
does so, anyway)?

[IXIslimIXI]

Avl42, how in the hell are you only able to get one bet in per session?
I usually get anywhere between 40 and 100 depending on which client I use.

Well, to each as he likes it. I rather enjoy betting a little, like a few mBTC every hour or even
day, and I'd like to wait for a few wins added up, so the payout isn't substantially consumed
for fees.

Imho, that would be one big advantage over classic dice-games like satoshidice.
(another one being already the avoidance of those useless satoshi-payouts for losses.)

Btw., what could be anyone's motivation to end any other user's sessions (before the system
does so, anyway)?

Man... I've seen people online do some very dumb and pointless stuff just for the hell of it. Spend a week browsing this very forum and you will see pointless name calling, false accusations of fraud, and general immature behavior.

[AvL42]

It's just beyond me, how you worry about someone else ending your sessions,
when merely going to the bathroom will already likely end your session (and
that without anyone else involved!).

[IXIslimIXI]

It's just beyond me, how you worry about someone else ending your sessions,
when merely going to the bathroom will already likely end your session (and
that without anyone else involved!).

I don't "worry" about it... I just said it would bother me if someone were to do that. It's beyond me how you are completely oblivious as to how people act. I wouldnt go to the bathroom in the middle of a session... That is under my control. Someone acting foolish is not under my control. You do realize bitcoins are money right? And gambling is using said money in a manner that could lose or gain you more. Why is it so hard to understand that I wouldn't want someone "playing" with my money... Would you like someone changing out your blackjack shoe after every hand without your control? Unlikely.

[Herbert]

Herbert, is there a reason you do not want to use accounts? I think it would be cool to have some account features. Like each person could customize their experience to his or her liking. For instance, end session buttons, constant sessions, hiding your account activity, things of this nature. All easily accomplished with accounts. So, just curious what brought on that decision to have no accounts? Don't take this as a request or something I see as a problem, just options and curiosity. I still think your site is number 1 out of all the Dice sites (even though I've lost about 800 bucks there. lmao)

Main reason is that requiring registration on a website is a major turn-off for many people, including me :-) Currently it is really easy to get started on bitbattle.me: Enter a name and your payout address and you're set! No need to provide any more details, no need to click on a confirmation link etc. I think this is a very important part to get new players aboard.
But I also see your points here, having an account would make it possible to adjust stuff like timeout etc. Maybe best thing would be to make registration optional, so the site stays fully functional without registration, but when you register you can adjust some settings.

Why does the payout even need to be tied to a session?  There's no concept of a session in dailybitcoins.
It just knows, how much it "owes" to each address, and on request pays it out.

Thanks in advance for the promised change!

Well, i prefer to not hold the users money longer than necessary. Hot wallets are always at stake - The longer I keep users funds in my hot wallet, the bigger it gets and the more I have to compensate in case it gets stolen 
Another thing is that I like the "all automatic" approach. Right now you can just open your dashboard in the browser and start betting with your preferred client. No need for any interaction on the website, you just use it to watch your bets.

Btw I am still busy with the payment engine rework. This includes refactoring of the way transaction fees are calculated and handled on the site. Right now payouts are either taking several hours to get a confirmation or have such a high TxFee that my house edge gets completely eaten up
When this is done I'll do the session changes discussed earlier...

[IXIslimIXI]

Herbert, is there a reason you do not want to use accounts? I think it would be cool to have some account features. Like each person could customize their experience to his or her liking. For instance, end session buttons, constant sessions, hiding your account activity, things of this nature. All easily accomplished with accounts. So, just curious what brought on that decision to have no accounts? Don't take this as a request or something I see as a problem, just options and curiosity. I still think your site is number 1 out of all the Dice sites (even though I've lost about 800 bucks there. lmao)

Main reason is that requiring registration on a website is a major turn-off for many people, including me :-) Currently it is really easy to get started on bitbattle.me: Enter a name and your payout address and you're set! No need to provide any more details, no need to click on a confirmation link etc. I think this is a very important part to get new players aboard.
But I also see your points here, having an account would make it possible to adjust stuff like timeout etc. Maybe best thing would be to make registration optional, so the site stays fully functional without registration, but when you register you can adjust some settings.

Why does the payout even need to be tied to a session?  There's no concept of a session in dailybitcoins.
It just knows, how much it "owes" to each address, and on request pays it out.

Thanks in advance for the promised change!

Well, i prefer to not hold the users money longer than necessary. Hot wallets are always at stake - The longer I keep users funds in my hot wallet, the bigger it gets and the more I have to compensate in case it gets stolen 
Another thing is that I like the "all automatic" approach. Right now you can just open your dashboard in the browser and start betting with your preferred client. No need for any interaction on the website, you just use it to watch your bets.

Btw I am still busy with the payment engine rework. This includes refactoring of the way transaction fees are calculated and handled on the site. Right now payouts are either taking several hours to get a confirmation or have such a high TxFee that my house edge gets completely eaten up
When this is done I'll do the session changes discussed earlier...

I completely agree about the optional registration. That way it will make both sides happy. I personally don't mind registering on some sites but agree that others it would be nice to not have to make up a fake name and email. lol

[Herbert]

Site will be offline for a few minutes. Stay tuned...

[IXIslimIXI]

Site will be offline for a few minutes. Stay tuned...

*Thumbs up*

[IXIslimIXI]

a little chat feature inside the multiplayer session would be cool

[AvL42]

I think, we're all thinking waaaayyys too complicated

My wish:  prolonged sessions without automatic expiry.
IXIslimIXI's concern:  Don't allow any stranger to terminate
              sessions faster than system's 72secs timeout.

Serving both:

   Add a "keep open" toggle-button ("checkbox") for each session, that
     (while checked) will merely block the 72secs session-timeout.
     Initially not checked, current behaviour would remain default.

   Releasing the "keep" merely makes sessions fall back to 72secs
     timeout mode, so couldn't really terminate sessions earlier than
     happens now.
   Setting the "keep" for a foreign session might cause a little confusion,
     but not much. If no payout arrives, one will likely check the session
     and see the "keep". Unchecking it then will terminate it instantly (as
     the session would be long beyond 72secs of idle by that time).

   Also, to avoid packratting sessions forever, there might still be a long
     timeout (maybe a week) that would clean "kept" sessions, once the
     last action was more than a week ago.

[IXIslimIXI]

I think, we're all thinking waaaayyys too complicated

My wish:  prolonged sessions without automatic expiry.
IXIslimIXI's concern:  Don't allow any stranger to terminate
              sessions faster than system's 72secs timeout.

Serving both:

   Add a "keep open" toggle-button ("checkbox") for each session, that
     (while checked) will merely block the 72secs session-timeout.
     Initially not checked, current behaviour would remain default.

   Releasing the "keep" merely makes sessions fall back to 72secs
     timeout mode, so couldn't really terminate sessions earlier than
     happens now.
   Setting the "keep" for a foreign session might cause a little confusion,
     but not much. If no payout arrives, one will likely check the session
     and see the "keep". Unchecking it then will terminate it instantly (as
     the session would be long beyond 72secs of idle by that time).

   Also, to avoid packratting sessions forever, there might still be a long
     timeout (maybe a week) that would clean "kept" sessions, once the
     last action was more than a week ago.

I think the "packratting" issue could be easily solved with an idle timer of a couple of hours or so.

I like the idea of having the option to prolong your session. I don't like the idea of an "end session now" button that everyone could see. That's all I was saying.

[Herbert]

Up and running again with the heavily improved payment engine!

Noteworthy changes:

• TxFee calculation now follows the same rules like the official bitcoin client. All payouts and refunds should now have an appropriate transaction fee, meaning your payouts will always be confirmed fast and no more coins are wasted due to excessive fees!
• The issue of too little confirmed balance in the hot wallet ("Wallet depleted" error) should not occur (so often) anymore. (Yeah, sometime i will increase the balance of the hot wallet to get rid of this issue for good. But I still need to build more confidence )
• Completely switched to using rawtransactions API (before I sometimes had to fallback to using the normal "sendtoaddress" command. And combining both methods is dangerous when something happens in parallel...).
• Payments are now handled asynchronously. You will notice that all payment start in state "pending" and after a short time (<1 second) switch to status "paid"

Bad news:
Somehow i managed to break the interesting part of multiplayer - Currently the risk score is not taken into account for payout calculation. Will fix that ASAP and then start on the other topics 

a little chat feature inside the multiplayer session would be cool

This is the top item already on my multiplayer TODO-List 

[IXIslimIXI]

Up and running again with the heavily improved payment engine!

Noteworthy changes:

• TxFee calculation now follows the same rules like the official bitcoin client. All payouts and refunds should now have an appropriate transaction fee, meaning your payouts will always be confirmed fast and no more coins are wasted due to excessive fees!
• The issue of too little confirmed balance in the hot wallet ("Wallet depleted" error) should not occur (so often) anymore. (Yeah, sometime i will increase the balance of the hot wallet to get rid of this issue for good. But I still need to build more confidence )
• Completely switched to using rawtransactions API (before I sometimes had to fallback to using the normal "sendtoaddress" command. And combining both methods is dangerous when something happens in parallel...).
• Payments are now handled asynchronously. You will notice that all payment start in state "pending" and after a short time (<1 second) switch to status "paid"

Bad news:
Somehow i managed to break the interesting part of multiplayer - Currently the risk score is not taken into account for payout calculation. Will fix that ASAP and then start on the other topics 

a little chat feature inside the multiplayer session would be cool

This is the top item already on my multiplayer TODO-List 

Groovy... Will be interesting how you accomplish this without registered user accounts.

[Herbert]

Bad news:
Somehow i managed to break the interesting part of multiplayer - Currently the risk score is not taken into account for payout calculation. Will fix that ASAP and then start on the other topics 

Fixed! This was just a display issue - accidently I showed the calculated payout also in the "win" row.
Example: http://bitbattle.me/game/bfacdfc7e530466cab55a3756290e26d/

a little chat feature inside the multiplayer session would be cool

This is the top item already on my multiplayer TODO-List 

Groovy... Will be interesting how you accomplish this without registered user accounts.

Well, maybe I should rename TODO into WISH then