Satoshi\blockchain Transactions disappeared

[IXIslimIXI]

Here is the JSON of that transaction.....


      "tx_bet":"275db30402b6a9ff0b72fc057e9a5c53a4221fa73a62b2da5e1320773ee98adb",
      "tx_bet_out_idx":0,
      "timestamp":"2012-10-25 03:36:40",
      "betname":"lessthan 24000",
      "tx_payment":"3108d73185a1d72ec6f52dd6406bb9c3353867098a116ec4d03f9f1e702f507e",
      "address":"18hNNj9v2Pa4W7ufEj41thyGSdG6YteeZp",
      "status":"UNKNOWN",
      "bet_amt":"6.00000000",
      "result":"WIN",
      "payment_amt":"16.02028400",
      "hash":"2afc73246820e28802e81d5be30c2be0a382a987291fe542059713b662f6424c",
      "secret_hash":"91297cce277e5273a9395be10d089dabecfe9e0492d6a0315658bff0905ab9d4",
      "lucky":11004


That should help. haha

[IXIslimIXI]

Mods... Would it be possible to get this thread moved to a more appropriate area?

[helloworld]

Mods... Would it be possible to get this thread moved to a more appropriate area?

I'd say that's probably no longer necessary since Fireduck is already aware of it, and he's probably the only one who can give you any further answer.

[IXIslimIXI]

Uhh... I thought you just asked me to post what I had so that I could get some help finding out what happened to the transaction on the blockchain? Or did you just think I was lying? lol... Bluff called.

[helloworld]

Uhh... I thought you just asked me to post what I had so that I could get some help finding out what happened to the transaction on the blockchain? Or did you just think I was lying? lol... Bluff called.

Well perhaps that was my literal wording, but what I thought was that Fireduck would be more likely to help than anyone else. Or perhaps Erik, the other owner.

I did find something strange though: When I look up your address in blockchain.info, the 3rd page (Page 2) only has a few transactions on it, whereas every other page has many.

That might be something to ask Piuk (blockchain.info) about, but I'm checking it over at blockexplorer.com first. UPDATE: Can't do that because block explorer just says:

ERROR: Address ledger is extremely large. Contact me if you really need the data.

Blockexplorer is run by Theymos.

[IXIslimIXI]

Thanks man... I'm just looking for anyone who knows more about coins than me that can help me find my missing money. Figured another area may find help better than this newbie section.

I may be wrong but I got the feeling from fireduck's last post that he was done with this thread. lol


I will reach out to Piuk also. There was something else odd that happened with my wallet last night too so I can ask him about that as well. When I went to bed I had 16 more btc than when I woke up but, there weren't any more transactions. Thank you again for your help.

[IXIslimIXI]

Uhh... I thought you just asked me to post what I had so that I could get some help finding out what happened to the transaction on the blockchain? Or did you just think I was lying? lol... Bluff called.

Well perhaps that was my literal wording, but what I thought was that Fireduck would be more likely to help than anyone else. Or perhaps Erik, the other owner.

I did find something strange though: When I look up your address in blockchain.info, the 3rd page (Page 2) only has a few transactions on it, whereas every other page has many.

That might be something to ask Piuk (blockchain.info) about, but I'm checking it over at blockexplorer.com first. UPDATE: Can't do that because block explorer just says:

ERROR: Address ledger is extremely large. Contact me if you really need the data.

Blockexplorer is run by Theymos.

So what should I ask him for?

[IXIslimIXI]

I sent them both PM's. Hopefully they can come help me out.

[helloworld]

ERROR: Address ledger is extremely large. Contact me if you really need the data.

Blockexplorer is run by Theymos.

So what should I ask him for?

The transaction list for 18hNNj9v2Pa4W7ufEj41thyGSdG6YteeZp

I was going to check it to see if there was anything there that doesn't appear in Blockchain.info's output. If that were the case, then it might just be a bug in blockchain.info (especially on Page 2 as I mentioned).

[IXIslimIXI]

ok, I asked him for it.

He thinks it may be an issue with blockchain.info as well.

I will compare them when he gets back to me. Thanks for your help.

[Stephen Gornick]

I have screenshots for proof that they existed but no longer do.

I haven't looked at your exact transactions but I've seen before the mistaken belief that every transaction that shows WIN on SatoshiDICE is correct and will eventually pay out.

Those "WIN" statuses are contingent on the transaction ultimately confirming.

If you are using a client that will spend an unconfirmed input (and Blockchain.info is one that allows this), then it is possible (and a frequent occurrence) that you are sending wagers which have parent transactions that have not yet confirmed either.

Now here's the problem with that.  If any prior transaction in which your wager uses inputs from ends up just never confirming, then the "WIN" you see on SatoshiDICE was untrue. You neither won, nor did you lose.  That transaction never confirmed and thus you never placed a valid wager.

There are some steps which will prevent this (one being not sending any wagers unless the inputs have confirmations), but a change fireduck made will probably mean this situation won't recur as long as that change is still in place:

I've also re-enabled the isLegit check on incoming bets.  This check makes sure the bet is either confirmed and has a tx fee of at least 0.001. It also traces it back to confirmed parent transactions.

[IXIslimIXI]

Interesting... I can see what you mean by that and that could certainly explain why the transaction would disappear from the blockchain. However, I have two questions if that were the case. One, does blockchain.info use unresolved coins when there are resolved coins available? Two, why would it ever fail if I never used my entire balance? Basically meaning, as long as I still had enough in my wallet to cover my wagers, then under that scenario, the wagers would process properly.

Also, one other thought... The transactions were all still showing this morning up until the point that the other wages started paying out.


What are your thoughts on that?

Thanks for the reply

[Stephen Gornick]

does blockchain.info use unresolved coins when there are resolved coins available?

Blockchain.info/wallet does create transactions that will include incoming transactions that have no confirmations yet.

why would it ever fail if I never used my entire balance?

With Bitcoin's architecture wallets and hybrid EWallets like what Blockchain.info/wallet is do not have the concept of a "balance".  They only have transactions -- inputs and outputs.  Let's say your wallet has just one transaction, a withdrawal from long time ago from Mt. Gox for 5.0 BTC. And then you make a wager for 1.0 BTC to SatoshiDICE.  That will create a 4.0 change transaction back to yourself, and that won't be confirmed.  

So then let's say your first wager won and you receive a 1.5 BTC payout.  And then you make another wager, this time for 0.7 BTC.    The Blockchain.info/wallet client might use the 1.5 BTC payout in that wager, even though you have no confirmed funds in your wallet.

Now in this scenario, everything should eventually confirm and this isn't a big deal.  But if for some reason that 1.5 BTC payouts included unconfirmed funds that never confirm, then that 0.7 BTC will be a wager that also will never confirm.  It will be as if you never made that 0.7 BTC wager, because it never will see confirmed funds for 100% of its inputs.

[IXIslimIXI]

Oooohhhh... I see. So basically, if just ONE large incoming transaction fails or is returned for some reason, that could subsequently delete every single transaction that occurred after that transaction came in and before it was returned?

So, really the benefit of using blockchain.info for games like SD (because it doesn't wit to confirm before you can play again) is possibly a deathblow in a scenario like this one. Hmmmm

[IXIslimIXI]

That's pretty insane to think about especially considering that they JUST provided access to all of those bets right there in the send area on blockchain.info

[piuk]

Quoting my response to the OP here.

This usually happens when a very long chain on unconfirmed transactions builds up (that is unconfirmed transactions that spend each other). If the transaction at the start of the chain never confirms all the transactions that spend it will be removed as well. Many mining pools deprioritize SatsoshiDICE transactions which makes the problem even worse.

They many still get confirmed, at which point SatoshiDICE should rectify the issue.

Basically if you are playing SatoshiDICE very heavily you need to be careful about building up large chains of unconfirmed transactions as they could take days to confirm.

[IXIslimIXI]

Ok great, I understand now, but, shouldn't I have gotten my initial transaction back?

[piuk]

Ok great, I understand now, but, shouldn't I have gotten my initial transaction back?

Yes, you will have already. If you point me towards your bitcoin address i can take a look.

Related discussion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=120199.0

[IXIslimIXI]

I haven't. Helloworld was trying to help me last night and he said he noticed something off, that I had a lot of missing transactions on page two of my wallet.

18hNNj9v2Pa4W7ufEj41thyGSdG6YteeZp

And then another,

1FzZq9g2kEqz4NcUdJVKyAcobBqNfPXihQ

The second one will be smaller if you want to start there.


Thanks so much for trying to help instead of just telling me there is nothing you can do

[piuk]

I haven't. Helloworld was trying to help me last night and he said he noticed something off, that I had a lot of missing transactions on page two of my wallet.

18hNNj9v2Pa4W7ufEj41thyGSdG6YteeZp

And then another,

1FzZq9g2kEqz4NcUdJVKyAcobBqNfPXihQ

Is there a specific transaction you think should be there but isn't? Since blockexplorer.com won't show the ledger it is difficult to find another source which can be used to check it against. One thing you could try is importing the private key to Bitcoin-Qt and letting the blockchain download, then compare the final balance (See "Desktop Sync" in the Import / Export section of blockchain.info).

I am running our Blockchain validator program however occurrences of the database getting out of sync are rare nowadays.