This is the privatization of Bitcoin - it already happened

[RawDog]

It already happened!

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-commercial-sidechain-bitcoin-exchanges/

Blockstream really needed to prevent BigBlocks - and successfully did.  Now, there is greater need for their offering: side chains.  Side chains which they control, and they charge fees to use. 

This is just the start.  There will be many, many more features of 'advanced systems' pushed out of the core, pushed away from 'free', and controlled by profiteers. 

Why did everyone listen to Blockstream when they so vigorously fought 8MB?  now everyone gets to pay them fees!!!  With 8MB blocks, no extra fees!

Bitcoin is fucked now.

[suda123]

It already happened!

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-commercial-sidechain-bitcoin-exchanges/

Blockstream really needed to prevent BigBlocks - and successfully did.  Now, there is greater need for their offering: side chains.  Side chains which they control, and they charge fees to use. 

This is just the start.  There will be many, many more features of 'advanced systems' pushed out of the core, pushed away from 'free', and controlled by profiteers. 

Why did everyone listen to Blockstream when they so vigorously fought 8MB?  now everyone gets to pay them fees!!!  With 8MB blocks, no extra fees!

Bitcoin is fucked now.

so does bitcoin price go up or down

[Betwrong]

It already happened!

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-commercial-sidechain-bitcoin-exchanges/

Blockstream really needed to prevent BigBlocks - and successfully did.  Now, there is greater need for their offering: side chains.  Side chains which they control, and they charge fees to use. 

This is just the start.  There will be many, many more features of 'advanced systems' pushed out of the core, pushed away from 'free', and controlled by profiteers. 

Why did everyone listen to Blockstream when they so vigorously fought 8MB?  now everyone gets to pay them fees!!!  With 8MB blocks, no extra fees!

Bitcoin is fucked now.

No, it's not. Proposing to a woman to step in your car doesn't mean you fucked her already.

Blockstream suggested Liquid is set to launch in Q1 of 2016.

But seriously why the sidechain is a bad thing for BTC? If it is convinient you can use it, if not you ignore it thats all.

Bitcoin is a strong creature and it can't be fucked without consent.

[7788bitcoin]

Blockstream can do whatever they want. At the end of the day, it is the users who make the decision. Bitcoin is free for anyone to use and "sidechain" can't change this by charging a fee.

[smoothie]

It already happened!

http://www.coindesk.com/blockstream-commercial-sidechain-bitcoin-exchanges/

Blockstream really needed to prevent BigBlocks - and successfully did.  Now, there is greater need for their offering: side chains.  Side chains which they control, and they charge fees to use. 

This is just the start.  There will be many, many more features of 'advanced systems' pushed out of the core, pushed away from 'free', and controlled by profiteers. 

Why did everyone listen to Blockstream when they so vigorously fought 8MB?  now everyone gets to pay them fees!!!  With 8MB blocks, no extra fees!

Bitcoin is fucked now.

I will not pay them fees.

Your conjecture is flimsy at best.

[RawDog]

If it is convinient you can use it, if not you ignore it thats all.

Not true.  Blockstream and their core devs have put an artificial constraint on bitcoin 1MB blocks for the purpose of increasing the need for sidechains.  If 8MB blocks were used, there would be far less use of sidechains.  These core devs working on Blockstream have a conflicting interest.  Yet, the were able to shut Gavin and Mike Hearn down. 

[coinpr0n]

If it is convinient you can use it, if not you ignore it thats all.

Not true.  Blockstream and their core devs have put an artificial constraint on bitcoin 1MB blocks for the purpose of increasing the need for sidechains.  If 8MB blocks were used, there would be far less use of sidechains.  These core devs working on Blockstream have a conflicting interest.  Yet, the were able to shut Gavin and Mike Hearn down. 

Not saying you are right or wrong, but what this sidechain seems to offer is speed (like off-chain transactions) - so I don't see how the blocksize really affects this, on-chain you still have to wait ~10 mins (plus X confirmations, so probably 1 hour).

[spacehopper]

I don't understand how sidechains work, or how any fee system for them works, or if sidechains have been developed yet. Can someone post a really simple explanation of what they are?

There must be many other newbies like me who don't even know what a sidechain is, so we don't understand the fierce technical arguments for and against. If using sidechains involves paying a centralized service then they sound crappy.

[Neg]

Bitcoin is bigger than these groups but as with any good idea it is going to try by infiltrated by greedy bastards trying to steer it the way they want it for their own financial needs. This is why I have always been against the foundation and it was quite clear anyone with money could buy their way in which is always a bad thing.

[okae]

If it is convinient you can use it, if not you ignore it thats all.

Not true.  Blockstream and their core devs have put an artificial constraint on bitcoin 1MB blocks for the purpose of increasing the need for sidechains.  If 8MB blocks were used, there would be far less use of sidechains.  These core devs working on Blockstream have a conflicting interest.  Yet, the were able to shut Gavin and Mike Hearn down. 

IMHO what those type of things are doing  is to break the free original spirit of the bitcoin, where everything was doing "in other ways", so yes, after i read your comment i start to understand whats his real intentions, even if this can help to bitcoin in some ways.

[Mickeyb]

Blockstream can do whatever they want. At the end of the day, it is the users who make the decision. Bitcoin is free for anyone to use and "sidechain" can't change this by charging a fee.

Exactly this! No need to overreact in this way OP. Hearn and Anderson have proposed the XT and that all the XT ever did, got proposed. Many people will propose many different things, what community decides and uses is important.

Also, big blocks debate isn't finished yet.

[knight22]

Yes, Blockstream is working hard to push users away from the permisionless bitcoin blockchain to their private permissioned sidechains to make a profit.

Things are getting ugly.

[RawDog]

I don't understand how sidechains work, or how any fee system for them works, or if sidechains have been developed yet. Can someone post a really simple explanation of what they are?

There must be many other newbies like me who don't even know what a sidechain is, so we don't understand the fierce technical arguments for and against. If using sidechains involves paying a centralized service then they sound crappy.

This is how side chains work:

Let's say you and Fred are playing poker.  After every hand, you and Fred go down to the bank.  The loser of the hand, withdraws $100, and the winner of the hand deposits $100.  Pretty soon, you guys get tired of this shit.  So, you decide to just write the results of each hand down on a piece of paper that you keep on the 'side' (get it? 'side chain').  At the end of the night when you are all done with every hand, then you go to the bank to settle up.  Just one transaction - accounts for all the hands played.  

In Bitcoin, it is sometimes possible to 'play hundreds of hands of poker' - but just do one transaction at the end to finalize the action.

That is what side chains are all about.  They keep track of a shitload of transactions - but only settle on the main blockchain occasionally.

[RawDog]

Yes, Blockstream is working hard to push users away from the permisionless bitcoin blockchain to their private permissioned sidechains to make a profit.

Things are getting ugly.

This would be totally fine and understandable, except...

They interfered with the 8MB debate.  AND, they used dirty tricks too.  They used censorship.  They used DDOS. They SLAMMED Gavin. 

Everyone has the right to build useful added services.  However, Blockstream had a huge personal interest to crush 8MB - and they did.  This was probably against the overall good of Bitcoin. 

[brg444]

Yes, Blockstream is working hard to push users away from the permisionless bitcoin blockchain to their private permissioned sidechains to make a profit.

Things are getting ugly.

This would be totally fine and understandable, except...

They interfered with the 8MB debate.  AND, they used dirty tricks too.  They used censorship.  They used DDOS. They SLAMMED Gavin. 

Everyone has the right to build useful added services.  However, Blockstream had a huge personal interest to crush 8MB - and they did.  This was probably against the overall good of Bitcoin. 

Are you the newest paid retard sponsored to spread lies and misinformation here?

You need to update your talking points.

[knight22]

Yes, Blockstream is working hard to push users away from the permisionless bitcoin blockchain to their private permissioned sidechains to make a profit.

Things are getting ugly.

This would be totally fine and understandable, except...

They interfered with the 8MB debate.  AND, they used dirty tricks too.  They used censorship.  They used DDOS. They SLAMMED Gavin. 

Everyone has the right to build useful added services.  However, Blockstream had a huge personal interest to crush 8MB - and they did.  This was probably against the overall good of Bitcoin. 

Are you the newest paid retard sponsored to spread lies and misinformation known and documented facts here?

You need to update your talking points.

FTFY

[brg444]

I hate sidechains, they seem like taking a step backwards. These sidechains are just Altcoins with a different name, you don't magically get coins on them you have to buy them and most are going to be shitchains just like all the shitcoins out there. Be weary of this and don't run off and invest in whatever sidecoin comes around screaming it's the future, remember it's just an altcoin.

Yes, ignorants are usually scared of what they don't understand

Would you rather prefer that exchanges remain dependent on centralized databases, which they currently use in order to move their clients coins?

[brg444]

Yes, Blockstream is working hard to push users away from the permisionless bitcoin blockchain to their private permissioned sidechains to make a profit.

Things are getting ugly.

This would be totally fine and understandable, except...

They interfered with the 8MB debate.  AND, they used dirty tricks too.  They used censorship.  They used DDOS. They SLAMMED Gavin. 

Everyone has the right to build useful added services.  However, Blockstream had a huge personal interest to crush 8MB - and they did.  This was probably against the overall good of Bitcoin. 

Are you the newest paid retard sponsored to spread lies and misinformation known and documented facts here?

You need to update your talking points.

FTFY

I'm all ears: show me the "known and documented facts" for Blockstream "using dirty tricks", censorship, DDOS.

[knight22]

I hate sidechains, they seem like taking a step backwards. These sidechains are just Altcoins with a different name, you don't magically get coins on them you have to buy them and most are going to be shitchains just like all the shitcoins out there. Be weary of this and don't run off and invest in whatever sidecoin comes around screaming it's the future, remember it's just an altcoin.

Yes, ignorants are usually scared of what they don't understand

Would rather prefer that exchanges remain dependent on centralized databases, which they currently do in order to move their clients coins?

We perfectly understand that this first sidechain requires permission to use it. Thanks.

[xyzzy099]

I hate sidechains, they seem like taking a step backwards. These sidechains are just Altcoins with a different name, you don't magically get coins on them you have to buy them and most are going to be shitchains just like all the shitcoins out there. Be weary of this and don't run off and invest in whatever sidecoin comes around screaming it's the future, remember it's just an altcoin.

Yes, ignorants are usually scared of what they don't understand

Would rather prefer that exchanges remain dependent on centralized databases, which they currently do in order to move their clients coins?

We perfectly understand that this first sidechain requires permission to use it. Thanks.

You do realize that this is a commercial service, that these exchanges are free to use or not, at will, right?