Blocksteam side chain released

[Amph]

This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.

yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later

this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise?

There is no such thing as "initial coins"

Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams.

the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless

they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains

i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater

if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them

[brg444]

This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.

yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later

this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise?

There is no such thing as "initial coins"

Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams.

the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless

they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains

i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater

if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them

Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable.

[Tobo]

It sounds like a permissioned Couterparty for now.

[knight22]

This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.

yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later

this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise?

There is no such thing as "initial coins"

Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams.

the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless

they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains

i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater

if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them

Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable.

I guess we will never know if its not transparent.

[brg444]

This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.

yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later

this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise?

There is no such thing as "initial coins"

Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams.

the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless

they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains

i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater

if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them

Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable.

I guess we will never know if its not transparent.

Unless you are suggesting a multitude of different companies collude to create a fractional reserve, which is not impossible, I think that's highly unlikely considering these schemes tend to turn ugly pretty quickly and come around to bite them in the ass. Moreover it needs to be mentioned that only the amount of Bitcoin that was moved to the sidechain can be moved back to the mainchain therefore this carries no inflationary risk for Bitcoin itself.

Exchanges are generally not transparent as it is already so Liquid certainly does not make the problem worst.

[Lauda]

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

Correct. I believe the right term is "two way peg". A lost of people don't understand it or think they do but they don't. This is what is causing misconception. This does not benefit anyone unfairly when talking about "early adopters" or whatever. Actually if this properly works there should be minor disadvantages or none.

[brg444]

Tried to find good point from side chain, but give up after saw this : "paying an undisclosed monthly subscription fee"
Not transparent, centralized & have to pay monthly subscription fee. Why should we use it, unless if we really need to send bitcoin instanly?

It's good solution to fix long waiting time, but i hope it could be more transparent & cheap

Is it so hard to understand this product is not addressed to consumers and regular users!?

[knight22]

This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.

yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later

this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise?

There is no such thing as "initial coins"

Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams.

the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless

they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains

i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater

if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them

Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable.

I guess we will never know if its not transparent.

Unless you are suggesting a multitude of different companies collude to create a fractional reserve, which is not impossible, I think that's highly unlikely considering these schemes tend to turn ugly pretty quickly and come around to bite them in the ass.

You mean like the whole legacy banking system? What is biting them in the ass exactly? Creating money out of thin air is far more appealing than you might think even if it carries a lot of risks.

Moreover it needs to be mentioned that only the amount of Bitcoin that was moved to the sidechain can be moved back to the mainchain therefore this carries no inflationary risk for Bitcoin itself.

That's what banks said when they started their gold vaults in exchange of paper IOUs...

[brg444]

This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.

yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later

this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise?

There is no such thing as "initial coins"

Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams.

the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless

they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains

i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater

if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them

Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable.

I guess we will never know if its not transparent.

Unless you are suggesting a multitude of different companies collude to create a fractional reserve, which is not impossible, I think that's highly unlikely considering these schemes tend to turn ugly pretty quickly and come around to bite them in the ass.

You mean like the whole legacy banking system? What is biting them in the ass exactly? Creating money out of thin air is far more appealing than you might think even if it carries a lot of risks.

Moreover it needs to be mentioned that only the amount of Bitcoin that was moved to the sidechain can be moved back to the mainchain therefore this carries no inflationary risk for Bitcoin itself.

That's what banks said when they started their gold vaults in exchange of paper IOUs...

Look, if you don't understand sidechains I suggest you go read about them and come back once you've got the basics down.

The monetary base of Bitcoin cannot be inflated by sidechains. The difference with gold is that you can cryptographically verify Bitcoin reserves.

[jonald_fyookball]

Tried to find good point from side chain, but give up after saw this : "paying an undisclosed monthly subscription fee"
Not transparent, centralized & have to pay monthly subscription fee. Why should we use it, unless if we really need to send bitcoin instanly?

It's good solution to fix long waiting time, but i hope it could be more transparent & cheap

well, we have to assume the exchanges are using it because they choose to.  No one is forcing them.
Perhaps its easier to settle than using Bitcoin. 

Maybe they find it less cluttering and easier to manage than the main chain.

I have no problem with it as long as people have a choice and its not used to justify keeping blocksize limited.

[brg444]

Tried to find good point from side chain, but give up after saw this : "paying an undisclosed monthly subscription fee"
Not transparent, centralized & have to pay monthly subscription fee. Why should we use it, unless if we really need to send bitcoin instanly?

It's good solution to fix long waiting time, but i hope it could be more transparent & cheap

well, we have to assume the exchanges are using it because they choose to.  No one is forcing them.
Perhaps its easier to settle than using Bitcoin. 

Maybe they find it less cluttering and easier to manage than the main chain.

I have no problem with it as long as people have a choice and its not used to justify keeping blocksize limited.

+1

It's nice to see you take a reasonable stance for once

[knight22]

Tried to find good point from side chain, but give up after saw this : "paying an undisclosed monthly subscription fee"
Not transparent, centralized & have to pay monthly subscription fee. Why should we use it, unless if we really need to send bitcoin instanly?

It's good solution to fix long waiting time, but i hope it could be more transparent & cheap

well, we have to assume the exchanges are using it because they choose to.  No one is forcing them.
Perhaps its easier to settle than using Bitcoin. 

Maybe they find it less cluttering and easier to manage than the main chain.

I have no problem with it as long as people have a choice and its not used to justify keeping blocksize limited.

Indeed but it is also clearer now why the blocksize is being kept limited.

[xyzzy099]

Tried to find good point from side chain, but give up after saw this : "paying an undisclosed monthly subscription fee"
Not transparent, centralized & have to pay monthly subscription fee. Why should we use it, unless if we really need to send bitcoin instanly?

It's good solution to fix long waiting time, but i hope it could be more transparent & cheap

well, we have to assume the exchanges are using it because they choose to.  No one is forcing them.
Perhaps its easier to settle than using Bitcoin. 

Maybe they find it less cluttering and easier to manage than the main chain.

I have no problem with it as long as people have a choice and its not used to justify keeping blocksize limited.

Indeed but it is also clearer now why the blocksize is being kept limited.

It's not clear to me why the Bitcoin blocksize would make any difference at all with respect to Liquidity.  Can you explain?

[Amph]

This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.

yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later

this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise?

There is no such thing as "initial coins"

Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams.

the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless

they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains

i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater

if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them

Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable.

ah well here we go, it was what i was talking about, this was the problem, there won't be anything from stopping someone in doing this, and maybe even success with it like it was with some altcoin

while he can have his instamined crap sidechain coins

[brg444]

This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.

yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later

this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise?

There is no such thing as "initial coins"

Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams.

the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless

they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains

i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater

if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them

Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable.

ah well here we go, it was what i was talking about, this was the problem, there won't be anything from stopping someone in doing this, and maybe even success with it like it was with some altcoin

while he can have his instamined crap sidechain coins

Again, what is the difference with any other altcoins? How do sidechains make the problem worst?

[Amph]

This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.

yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later

this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise?

There is no such thing as "initial coins"

Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams.

the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless

they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains

i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater

if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them

Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable.

ah well here we go, it was what i was talking about, this was the problem, there won't be anything from stopping someone in doing this, and maybe even success with it like it was with some altcoin

while he can have his instamined crap sidechain coins

Again, what is the difference with any other altcoins? How do sidechains make the problem worst?

it wasn't that my point, my point was that it simply brings more garbage altcoin, even near to bitcoin, how this is a good thing?

[brg444]

This will reduce the pressure on the main chain.

yeah while helping those that made the chain, to milk the initial amount of coins, and be magically early adopter, to dump later

this is the real definition of quick buck scam, that was running in the alt section for year, d we really need to repeat it another time, in disguise?

There is no such thing as "initial coins"

Seeing how dumb what you just said is I'm guessing you are speaking from experience when referring to scams.

the coins that will be issued when you launch a sidechain, should be the same as any altcoin, but they are worthless

they create you a numbers of coins(tokesn), when you send bitcoin to those chains

i imagine that some chain could begin with some of those coins already ready, a sort of premining

Exactly, so in the case of Liquid, units on the sidechains only get created if there is a BTC collateral. As such, any coin on the Liquid sidechain is worth its exact equivalent in Bitcoin.

So how exactly do you propose this creates an opportunity for "early adopters" to "milk the initial amount of coins"?

then they were spreading false info, because i've read about that here, from a forum member, maybe he was an heater

if this how they actually work, then i'm fine with them

Don't get me wrong, you could actually create a sidechain with pre-mined coins but that would be the equivalent of launching an alt-coin. It isn't something new that sidechains enable.

ah well here we go, it was what i was talking about, this was the problem, there won't be anything from stopping someone in doing this, and maybe even success with it like it was with some altcoin

while he can have his instamined crap sidechain coins

Again, what is the difference with any other altcoins? How do sidechains make the problem worst?

it wasn't that my point, my point was that it simply brings more garbage altcoin, even near to bitcoin, how this is a good thing?

Altcoins are usually created under the pretense of offering an important or desirable feature not possible under Bitcoin.

With sidechains it will eventually be possible to offer these features without having to bootstrap a new currency.

Different sidechains will compete on the marketplace and those that leverage Bitcoin's scarcity and liquidity will come out as obvious winners against altcoins offering the same features but using a new, inflationary currency.

Consider two sidechains that offers the same feature: privacy. Any sane person will prefer the one that recognizes the existing value of their holdings and does not require them to speculate on a new, volatile, currency.

[xyzzy099]

Tried to find good point from side chain, but give up after saw this : "paying an undisclosed monthly subscription fee"
Not transparent, centralized & have to pay monthly subscription fee. Why should we use it, unless if we really need to send bitcoin instanly?

It's good solution to fix long waiting time, but i hope it could be more transparent & cheap

well, we have to assume the exchanges are using it because they choose to.  No one is forcing them.
Perhaps its easier to settle than using Bitcoin.  

Maybe they find it less cluttering and easier to manage than the main chain.

I have no problem with it as long as people have a choice and its not used to justify keeping blocksize limited.

Indeed but it is also clearer now why the blocksize is being kept limited.

It's not clear to me why the Bitcoin blocksize would make any difference at all with respect to Liquidity.  Can you explain?

By letting the blocks getting bloated which will gives incentives for businesses to move to their lucrative centralized solutions. Liquid being the first of many.

Liquid is an alternative to the already-centralized private databases of the exchanges.  The block size has nothing to do with it at all.

[gentlemand]

If only they could do the same for fiat.

[knight22]

Tried to find good point from side chain, but give up after saw this : "paying an undisclosed monthly subscription fee"
Not transparent, centralized & have to pay monthly subscription fee. Why should we use it, unless if we really need to send bitcoin instanly?

It's good solution to fix long waiting time, but i hope it could be more transparent & cheap

well, we have to assume the exchanges are using it because they choose to.  No one is forcing them.
Perhaps its easier to settle than using Bitcoin.  

Maybe they find it less cluttering and easier to manage than the main chain.

I have no problem with it as long as people have a choice and its not used to justify keeping blocksize limited.

Indeed but it is also clearer now why the blocksize is being kept limited.

It's not clear to me why the Bitcoin blocksize would make any difference at all with respect to Liquidity.  Can you explain?

By letting the blocks getting bloated which will gives incentives for businesses to move to their lucrative centralized solutions. Liquid being the first of many.

Liquid is an alternative to the already-centralized private databases of the exchanges.  The block size has nothing to do with it at all.

It has a lot to do when their business model is to make profits by driving transactions to their centralized services.