The Big Question.. Fair Initial Distribution

[Spoetnik]

I see the topic title as a taking the lesser evil situation.
Mining has exploit problems and is a scheme that makes the rich even ricer.
And I sure as never have nor will I ever support any IPO / ICO coin!
You can call it what ever you want too "Angel Investors"

How the hell do you guys support these IPO style coins?
I see it non stop for years now.. Once one or two coins started doing it
that opened the flood gate..
Few of you have any clue how much better the scene was when I started.
There was no way in hell some IPO coin could get off the ground way back..
They would be laughed at and dead on launch and flamed here to hell & back.
Then I seen a couple slip by where I was left alone rejecting them..
Then it turned into a mass flood and NOW?
You guys still support them you just do it publicly with the top 5
..then bash the others

I don't invest or trade Altcoins anymore because there is no acceptable coin to support.
If some douche sits at home and premines 6 zillion ponzi tokens?
I sure as hell am not running to an exchange to buy them with Bitcoin!
I don't care what scheme it is..  Whether it's Start coin, NXT, BlockNet, Ethereum etc..

What is wrong with you guys?
How do you NOW justify this bs when there was a time this was totally unacceptable.
Are you all that greedy?
What part of unregulated market do you guys not understand?

What can be done for an alternative?
Coding wise I think it will take a genius to get a good system in place.
And it will cripple adoption if some new initial distribution scheme is too hard to explain to noobs.
But what?
What is the fairest / best way to distribute a digital currency?
I say mining until something better comes along..
After all that is what got me here!
If I could not get into crypto with nothing invested I would not have bothered.

.. So tell me your opinions so I can clarify how wrong you all are.

And don't forget I signed up here back when you douches used to do the right thing.
Geez things changed and you all have no idea..
This forum and the whole scene would reject garbage swiftly so badly that crap coins couldn't even get started..
Now look around.. NXT? DOGE? RIPPLE?
Ripple was one of the first to get that IPO scam scene rolling..
I recall when it was launched here way back None of us supported it..
But sure enough.. Give it time for the rats to scurry in the shadows LOL
Like Cryptsy and it's ORB Sleazy antics..  And didn't they add Ripple too *eventually.

Many of you lost your integrity and credibility around here years ago.. Sorry it's sad but true!

Edit:
I have always loved asking guys on chat box's about their coin flogging..
I say so.. How is it initially distributed?
The answer I have always gotten is "I don't know"
Or they refuse to answer accusing me of trolling..
And I say to you all if that is not the first question you ask (2nd = who made it)
Then your an idiot and deserve to get ponzi crap coin burned ahahahH

[bizzyb]

I've tried to do the "right" thing with MonetaryUnit
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=778322
Months and months of low block rewards, massive pre-mine etc (you can read yourself at the ANN) and then subsequently pretty high initial inflation (to help dilute the initial big holders).
Where has that left the project?  Well, it's cost me a fair amount to set up and maintain, and we remain, despite having a wide range of services and infrastructure, under the radar.

So, whilst I have and do invest in one or two ICO style coins, as long as there is a market for them, there will continue to be new ICO/IPO projects being released "cause they can".

[PolarPoint]

What do you think of the initial distribution of clams? I think it is rather fair. Nearly every crypto user received some clams. They can hold and "earn" more by stake or they can sell them.

[NattyLiteCoin]

What do you think about the initial distribution of LTC?

Fairest launch ever, that's what I was thinking.

[iGotSpots]

What do you think about the initial distribution of LTC?

Fairest launch ever, that's what I was thinking.

Lol, not even close. You must not have been around back in the GPU farm days 

[tokeweed]

The altcoin scene is very much like the penny stock scene.  This is a trading free for all.  I suggest you guys read Timothy Sykes' book, An American Hedge Fund.  Like the altcoin scene, the Wallstreet scene is a 'joke' as he describes.  The scams and P&D's are rampant maneuvering around SEC regulations.

I'm quite surprised no Wallstreet types have penetrated the altcoin scene yet.  But when those guys get in, be happy.  The market's gonna get crazy.

[Spoetnik]

Bizzy, you missed the point.. You made ANOTHER coin in Nov. 2014
You guys don't get it.. I said to the Digibyte guy why post another one?
His only answer for yet another scrypt clone was his marketing was professional.
So I guess that justified making another clone..
Really you guys keep making them and supporting them and tacking on excuses for it all.
We don't need 1,000's of coins.. It dilutes the value of them all including BTC.

Stock market guys won't touch this stuff either because there is no regulation.
So the penny stocks analogy is flawed.. I've heard that a lot from guys over the years.
Why would professional investors spend their money in a crypto scene that has no laws.
Jesus Christ guys a celeb named Martha Stewart did jail time for insider trading.
Do you realize how bad that must be to take down an old lady baking pie's on TV?
Then just try and fathom the grand scope and scale of insider trading that has played out in crypto.
The Berni Madoff of crypto has to do some jail time before Pro investors get on board.

A bit off topic there I guess but guys feel free to mention any coin
But try and post how it was distributed at the start.

I will repeat..
If I could not mine coins with my existing home desktop I would have never started this stuff.
And when I seen kids piling in years ago asking on exchange chat box's.. How do I send money from my bank?
I was sort of disturbed and felt it was too risky and foolish of them.
There was no way in hell I was sending money from my bank when I first got here!

[runpaint]

I don't invest or trade Altcoins anymore because there is no acceptable coin to support.
If some douche sits at home and premines 6 zillion ponzi tokens?
I sure as hell am not running to an exchange to buy them with Bitcoin!

The glut of altcoins actually hurts Bitcoin.  Bitcoin's supply is controlled, but the supply of altcoins dilutes the market.  

As for pre-mine, there are some legitimate uses for it (giving it away for free).  But even then, it all depends on whether the person giving it away is secretly giving himself a few billion to his thousands of anonymous addresses.

There is an illusion that these altcoins use to seem legitimate:  "We're like Bitcoin."  Because an IPO coin is a "cryptocurrency", people's eyes just glaze over and they think it's different from handing someone your money and hoping for the best.  But if the "coin" is run like a company, and you're only buying it in hopes of getting dividends, then why wouldn't you buy into a licensed company instead?  It's the same thing, but LEGAL.  

And there's another illusion:  "PoW and fair distribution means you don't have to trust anyone."  If that were true, there wouldn't be hundreds of dead altcoins that failed when their developers disappeared.  Nothing is 100% decentralized - we are all still controlled by the rules Satoshi decided, and by the rules decided by other Bitcoin devs after him.  

One reason Bitcoin works is because Satoshi was honest.  He saw it through, he kept working for free, and he's never dumped his coins.  If you don't have devs like that, you'll find out how "trustless" crypto really is.  "...but he said he would released a new wallet to fix the forked network..."  And you believed him.  The guy was probably in over his head and couldn't fix the problem with another copy-and-paste like he used to create the wallet in the first place.

So I agree with Spoetnik that it's more than risky to pay someone directly for pre-mined coins.  I also agree that there are far too many altcoins, and the vast majority are either worthless, scams, or worthless scams.  

But I would add that you should look at each project even if it seems to follow the rules and has no red flags - I guess I'm agreeing with Spoetnik again though, because he already said to ask "How is it distributed" and "Who made it".  

So it's pretty safe to assume everything is a scam until you have reason to believe otherwise.  Yes, some pre-mined projects are honest, and the devs never sell free coins or make any money from it.  At the same time, some PoW coins will lead you to lose just as much money.  

"But how could I lose money on a fair coin?"

You mine a little, "for free" right?  What's the risk there?  All it costs you is a little time and effort.  Or maybe they airdrop you some coins, maybe they "make it rain" in IRC.  Now you have coins, and you're excited!  You're "part of the community", and doesn't that feel good?  It would hurt if your community died, and you lost all those new friends, so of course you'll spend a little BTC to help support the price.  I mean, it's so low, all it needs is some temporary buywalls until it gets back on its feet.  Maybe just a few more buys until next month.  Then everyone else from the community will pitch in, and you'll be a hero as well as rich because you bought it so cheap!  Well...maybe it will take a little longer for the price to go back up...it took Bitcoin a few years, right?  Just hold, and continue supporting the community to protect your investment.  Because you've spent all your spare BTC on it by now.  Your temporary buywalls have already cost you 4 BTC, so 1 more BTC is just a smart move to average-down your cost!  GOOD THING THESE COINS WERE FREE!

[runpaint]

We don't need 1,000's of coins.. It dilutes the value of them all including BTC.

The glut of altcoins actually hurts Bitcoin.  Bitcoin's supply is controlled, but the supply of altcoins dilutes the market.  

If you're going to read my mind, do you also have to say it 36 seconds before I say it? 

[blackyblack]

Such BS.
Now tell me about initial distribution of USD or Apple stocks.

[bizzyb]

Bizzy, you missed the point.. You made ANOTHER coin in Nov. 2014

A bit off topic there I guess but guys feel free to mention any coin
But try and post how it was distributed at the start.

I will repeat..
If I could not mine coins with my existing home desktop I would have never started this stuff.
And when I seen kids piling in years ago asking on exchange chat box's.. How do I send money from my bank?
I was sort of disturbed and felt it was too risky and foolish of them.
There was no way in hell I was sending money from my bank when I first got here!

I've released just the one coin, MonetaryUnit, in July 2014, and I did it to address the very thing you are talking about, fair distribution.
If nothing else, take a look at our sparkly new website http://www.MonetaryUnit.org

[RKing]

The distribution should be like S curve, one example is the Credits coin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1037244.0

[highaltitude20322]

The distribution should be like S curve, one example is the Credits coin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1037244.0

Distribution similar to CLAMS it looks like. I always thought the proof of deposit distribution was at the very least a "fun" way of doing it.

[confirmation120]

The distribution should be like S curve, one example is the Credits coin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1037244.0

Distribution similar to CLAMS it looks like. I always thought the proof of deposit distribution was at the very least a "fun" way of doing it.

Always thought this too, clams was great.

[Eastwind]

The distribution should be like S curve, one example is the Credits coin.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1037244.0

Distribution similar to CLAMS it looks like. I always thought the proof of deposit distribution was at the very least a "fun" way of doing it.

It is the proof of deposit way of PoW. When you mine, you have to put in some coins as a deposit. If you do not have enough deposit, your mining efficiency will be lower. It is different from PoS.

[Spoetnik]

Such BS.
Now tell me about initial distribution of USD or Apple stocks.

The part where there are laws ?
Ever heard of criminal law ?
One again you guys try and pull that analogy and sorry you fail hard.
You can't compare a scene with laws with one with out. period.

@runpaint
We are on the same page it seems.. i liked reading your reply.
I got to say i have been attacked by simply asking who and how sooooo many times on chat box's
and mod's would sometimes ban me for it (defending their scam coins and their pushers)
all i would ever ask is a provocative question to some guy on chat and bam the whole place was on me..
they would rarely know or care and ALL of them would attack me on the spot for bringing it up.

Cryptsy perma-banned me on their chatbox basically LOL
I have never EVER intended that question to be antagonistic but to simply get people thinking
to make an informed decision and after all why wouldn't you want all the info you can get to make an informed investment decision ?
I went through colossal bs with the TIX launch on Cryptsy chat and some on here (the forum)
All it was about was i asked WHO made this new coin ?
And wow did that cause some bloody drama that lasted years LOL
Turns out i was right from the second it launched who was involved except supposedly there was another person that pitched in..
Muddafudda i think it was.. (who co-coded it with iGotSpots i think)
But i already knew it was iGotSpots before the coin was even launched and someone pm'd me concrete proof of
Mullick being caught red handed uploading the compiled binaries to Github before launch.
and who is he ?
A top level old Cryptsy staff member who was also a chat box moderator. (caught uploading the new coins wallet before launch)
And another high up guy (The boss back then) named BitJohn was involved too.. at the minimum he had knowledge of what was going on
because i think it was his decision to add TIX in the first place and so on launch day when the drama was unfolding (i dared ask who made it)
BitJohn said to me publicly on Cryptsy chat.. I KNOW WHO MADE IT BUT I WILL NOT SAY WHO
Now tell me what kind of exchange is that when i ask who made it and the guy running the exchange says i know but i won't tell you ?
Yeah that inspires confidence right ? ahahhaha
All those guys dug one hell of a huge hole for themselves denying involvement and Fighting and Trolling about it (only to admit it later)
when all they had to do is answer the damn question.. Who the hell made it ?
Is that such a problem ? Why shouldn't i ask ?
By the way i was the only one that asked ..as usual.
If that doesn't raise red flags then wow LOL

[Chronikka]

Such BS.
Now tell me about initial distribution of USD or Apple stocks.

The part where there are laws ?
Ever heard of criminal law ?
One again you guys try and pull that analogy and sorry you fail hard.
You can't compare a scene with laws with one with out. period.

So let me get this straight. According to you if I use Bitcoin, laws don't apply to me. What kind of idiotic statement is that?

The same laws that apply to me apply to you and everybody else regardless of the currency they use. The problem isn't that there are no laws, its that there is nobody to reliably enforce them. Bitcoin is an entirely new concept and its going to take time for people to figure out how to integrate it with the rest of society. The internet as we know it is going on 30 years old and the US is just getting around to passing legislation to ensure equal access. These things don't happen overnight and Bitcoin has a ways to go.

In the meantime will there be worthless scam coins and pump and dump schemes? Sure. So what? Ever heard of penny stocks? Market manipulation and scams are part of society, not just the Bitcoin scene.

[Spoetnik]

Such BS.
Now tell me about initial distribution of USD or Apple stocks.

The part where there are laws ?
Ever heard of criminal law ?
One again you guys try and pull that analogy and sorry you fail hard.
You can't compare a scene with laws with one with out. period.

So let me get this straight. According to you if I use Bitcoin, laws don't apply to me. What kind of idiotic statement is that?

The same laws that apply to me apply to you and everybody else regardless of the currency they use. The problem isn't that there are no laws, its that there is nobody to reliably enforce them. Bitcoin is an entirely new concept and its going to take time for people to figure out how to integrate it with the rest of society. The internet as we know it is going on 30 years old and the US is just getting around to passing legislation to ensure equal access. These things don't happen overnight and Bitcoin has a ways to go.

In the meantime will there be worthless scam coins and pump and dump schemes? Sure. So what? Ever heard of penny stocks? Market manipulation and scams are part of society, not just the Bitcoin scene.

what was that ? LOL
you still fail hard..
no you are wrong and your own comments prove my point ahahha

[Chronikka]

Such BS.
Now tell me about initial distribution of USD or Apple stocks.

The part where there are laws ?
Ever heard of criminal law ?
One again you guys try and pull that analogy and sorry you fail hard.
You can't compare a scene with laws with one with out. period.

So let me get this straight. According to you if I use Bitcoin, laws don't apply to me. What kind of idiotic statement is that?

The same laws that apply to me apply to you and everybody else regardless of the currency they use. The problem isn't that there are no laws, its that there is nobody to reliably enforce them. Bitcoin is an entirely new concept and its going to take time for people to figure out how to integrate it with the rest of society. The internet as we know it is going on 30 years old and the US is just getting around to passing legislation to ensure equal access. These things don't happen overnight and Bitcoin has a ways to go.

In the meantime will there be worthless scam coins and pump and dump schemes? Sure. So what? Ever heard of penny stocks? Market manipulation and scams are part of society, not just the Bitcoin scene.

what was that ? LOL
you still fail hard..
no you are wrong and your own comments prove my point ahahha

How so? Or have you run out of intelligent things to say and now you're just telling people they're wrong?

[runpaint]

@runpaint
We are on the same page it seems.. i liked reading your reply.
I got to say i have been attacked by simply asking who and how sooooo many times on chat box's
and mod's would sometimes ban me for it (defending their scam coins and their pushers)
all i would ever ask is a provocative question to some guy on chat and bam the whole place was on me..
they would rarely know or care and ALL of them would attack me on the spot for bringing it up.

Cryptsy perma-banned me on their chatbox basically LOL

lol, I JUST went to Cryptsy this morning to announce our coin swap, because we're burning 3 coins held at Cryptsy and I'm doing due diligence to let it be known.  

As soon as I said "We want to reduce the number of altcoins on the market, destroying them permanently", the entire chatroom blew up.  They said I was taking away people's rights, that I was going to spend the burned coins, that I was cutting Cryptsy's throat, and whatever else they could think of.  A moderator also joined in to flame me.

When I say "burned coins can never be pumped and dumped again," and that makes certain people angry, I think I can guess what kind of people they are.

I have never EVER intended that question to be antagonistic but to simply get people thinking
to make an informed decision and after all why wouldn't you want all the info you can get to make an informed investment decision ?
I went through colossal bs with the TIX launch on Cryptsy chat and some on here (the forum)
All it was about was i asked WHO made this new coin ?
And wow did that cause some bloody drama that lasted years LOL
Turns out i was right from the second it launched who was involved except supposedly there was another person that pitched in..
Muddafudda i think it was.. (who co-coded it with iGotSpots i think)
But i already knew it was iGotSpots before the coin was even launched and someone pm'd me concrete proof of
Mullick being caught red handed uploading the compiled binaries to Github before launch.
and who is he ?
A top level old Cryptsy staff member who was also a chat box moderator. (caught uploading the new coins wallet before launch)
And another high up guy (The boss back then) named BitJohn was involved too.. at the minimum he had knowledge of what was going on
because i think it was his decision to add TIX in the first place and so on launch day when the drama was unfolding (i dared ask who made it)
BitJohn said to me publicly on Cryptsy chat.. I KNOW WHO MADE IT BUT I WILL NOT SAY WHO
Now tell me what kind of exchange is that when i ask who made it and the guy running the exchange says i know but i won't tell you ?
Yeah that inspires confidence right ? ahahhaha
All those guys dug one hell of a huge hole for themselves denying involvement and Fighting and Trolling about it (only to admit it later)
when all they had to do is answer the damn question.. Who the hell made it ?
Is that such a problem ? Why shouldn't i ask ?
By the way i was the only one that asked ..as usual.
If that doesn't raise red flags then wow LOL

Some good information there, I'm not informed about TIX but I'll research it.  If more people paid attention to the stunts these guys pull, they couldn't do it over and over again.  I've often said that scammers and pumpers work in pools, while the rest of us are solo and can't compete with the network hyperate.  But all it takes is sharing information, talking publicly about what we know and what we see, and now we're pooling our resources.  

Speaking of which, have you heard what's going on with BanxShares?  Listed at #7 on CoinMarketCap even though it's only traded on its own exchange, and it's been in ICO for 12 months with the price completely controlled by Banx?  I thought it sounded too much like GAW, XPY, and Josh Garza...but I just found out this week that Banx sold "cloud mining contracts" which they weren't able to fulfill, and they instead offered customers to accept their own premined coin instead of their mining contracts.

UNBELIEVABLE, we've just seen this entire scenario play out to its conclusion with GAW, and it's like people have already forgotten it, allowing this Banx guy to use XPY as a how-to manual instead of a cautionary tale.

(and Banx was removed from CoinMarketCap this week, after my bitcointalk topic led to someone writing an article on coinjournal)