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Author Topic: The Future of Cryptocurrencies - Virgin Media  (Read 1668 times)
charleshoskinson (OP)
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October 20, 2015, 03:16:09 PM
 #1

Enjoy http://www.virgin.com/entrepreneur/the-virgin-podcast-charles-hoskinson love to hear your thoughts

The revolution begins with the mind and ends with the heart. Knowledge for all, accessible to all and shared by all
batesresearch
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October 21, 2015, 10:59:22 AM
 #2

Listened to this today! Brilliant!

Great work. Also your course on Udemy is very good! One of my projects under development is to help everyday people to enter the Bitcoin world and become more knowledgeable in the monetary system.

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October 21, 2015, 03:46:29 PM
 #3

i think its really nice article  Cool
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October 21, 2015, 04:52:31 PM
 #4


thx, that was a good talk.

i heard you left ethereum...(good choice)...will you ever "come back" and work directly on a bitcoin project? that would be cool  Cool

Gleb Gamow
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October 21, 2015, 06:27:32 PM
Last edit: October 21, 2015, 06:39:45 PM by Gleb Gamow
 #5


thx, that was a good talk.

i heard you left ethereum...(good choice)...will you ever "come back" and work directly on a bitcoin project? that would be cool  Cool

Yes he will! Charles is a smart dude, and I imagine that his underwear is stained with yellow 0s and brown 1s (if the Bathroom Code were in binary).
Denker
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October 21, 2015, 08:58:12 PM
 #6

I did not know this podcast so this was my time first today I listened to it.I really enjoyed it and I will ckeck it for coming episodes.Really good work.
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October 21, 2015, 09:05:44 PM
 #7

 Thanks for link,many interesting podcasts to lesson,great source

 
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October 21, 2015, 09:46:07 PM
 #8

Listened to this today! Brilliant!

Great work. Also your course on Udemy is very good! One of my projects under development is to help everyday people to enter the Bitcoin world and become more knowledgeable in the monetary system.
Virgin (media?) is one of the most innovatite companies out there... richard branson is... he will use bitcoin someday and will elevate it to heavens.
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October 21, 2015, 09:51:46 PM
 #9

Listened to this today! Brilliant!

Great work. Also your course on Udemy is very good! One of my projects under development is to help everyday people to enter the Bitcoin world and become more knowledgeable in the monetary system.

Where is his courses located on Udemy?  I'd personally just like to brush up on my knowledge and see if I fully understand everything that is going on in the current world of bitcoin.  Also, thanks for the link charles... I can see this as a very positive movement for bitcoin.  Hopefully from here on out we will see a steady growth.

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October 21, 2015, 10:01:15 PM
 #10

Thanks for helping to spread the word of bitcoin. Hopefully all of the top billionaires will start investing.
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October 21, 2015, 10:07:25 PM
 #11

That was an excellent and very comprehensive listen.
charleshoskinson (OP)
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October 21, 2015, 10:37:59 PM
 #12


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i heard you left ethereum...(good choice)...will you ever "come back" and work directly on a bitcoin project? that would be cool  Cool

One of the reasons I started working on Altcoins is that I never was welcomed into the bitcoin core developer clique. I don't even get an invitation to DevCon. I'm on the outside and my ideas and contributions are mostly ignored by the elites in the space. So I build altcoins to experiment and test them in the wild. It's a lot more fun as you have a chance to start with a blank slate and the benefit of hindsight.

The revolution begins with the mind and ends with the heart. Knowledge for all, accessible to all and shared by all
WhatTheGox
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October 21, 2015, 10:44:12 PM
 #13

Listened to this today! Brilliant!

Great work. Also your course on Udemy is very good! One of my projects under development is to help everyday people to enter the Bitcoin world and become more knowledgeable in the monetary system.
Virgin (media?) is one of the most innovatite companies out there... richard branson is... he will use bitcoin someday and will elevate it to heavens.

Think branson already does use it on a personal level judging from him in the media over last couple years. Its likely virgin will be lining up direct acceptance in near future.
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October 22, 2015, 12:23:48 AM
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i heard you left ethereum...(good choice)...will you ever "come back" and work directly on a bitcoin project? that would be cool  Cool

One of the reasons I started working on Altcoins is that I never was welcomed into the bitcoin core developer clique. I don't even get an invitation to DevCon. I'm on the outside and my ideas and contributions are mostly ignored by the elites in the space. So I build altcoins to experiment and test them in the wild. It's a lot more fun as you have a chance to start with a blank slate and the benefit of hindsight.
 
  
I listened to your podcast; it's obvious you are extremely intelligent and an asset to any community that has you.  I have always said of Ethereum that the technological possibilities are incredible, but perhaps are ahead of their time.  As well, the distribution of such a token cannot be marred with concepts of pre-sales (otherwise the n-person pirate games seems to predict that subsequent players will reject joining this 'flawed' game).  In my humble opinion, a successful currency must have an open and fair launch where all players had equal chances to acquire tokens in an increasingly growing playing field.  Equal distribution isn't necessarily important, but equal opportunity for distribution is.

Let's look one example of this type of "game" in action: Magic the Gathering.  I haven't played in 20 years since I was a teenager, but I have watched it grow to a global phenomenon over my lifetime.  In fact, certain cards are worth immense amounts and its possible that two people (who both value those cards) could conduct entire transactions entirely in them.  Now admittedly, the distribution of powerful and valuable cards isn't uniform, but the key concept is that since its birth decades ago, new players perceive that everyone has been playing the same 'game'.  The insiders are only insiders because they got their earlier and worked harder, not because there was some line drawn in the sand between insiders and outsiders.  This perception of fairness amongst new potential players (as well as the network effect of being first to market) has kept this particular card game growing long after its many rivals.  
  
Also, I agree with you that despite network effects it might not be Bitcoin that eventually becomes the largest cryptocurrency.  I believe bitcoin will always carry value, but I think that a superior technology may overtake it for several reasons, one of which is a public blockchain cannot offer the fungibility necessary to achieve the hallowed dream of true "digital cash".  
  
You mentioned anon-coins briefly in your speech, but I notice you didn't mention Cryptonote or Monero.  I'm first of all interested in hearing your thoughts about Monero, and my secondary objective is to find out what it would take to convince you to wholeheartedly join into active Monero development with us.  
  
When I first heard about the new batch of "anon-coins" I didn't pay them much heed - I thought they may let bad guys do bad business better but a public blockchain was good enough for most of the world.  It wasn't until I really began to consider a.) the loss of fungibility associated with a public blockchain ("Russians are banned from accepting Bitcoins mined with US IP addresses!") and b.) the entire new class of applications, data structures, and 'games' enabled by a truly private blockchain that I became a believer (pretend you and I want to place a private bet that neither of us can back out of, but that only we know about so as to prevent the existence of that bet interfering with the outcome).  
  
I am certain you have either already arrived at these same conclusions or will with some reflection.  
  
It's out of professional courtesy that I don't include a bunch of Monero links (I'm sure you're aware of it and where to find it), but I will say this: you say that the bitcoin developers never "let you in", and I heard your complaints about the current governance.  I would say that currently Bitcoin is on a dire collision course with an iceberg of fiat, while Monero is still in the formative stages of its network and leadership.  The technical knowledge and wisdom of someone like yourself would be welcomed in the community, and as many important people have said - not since the release of the original bitcoin have they seen a project like this.  
  
I think that it's becoming increasingly clear that this is the next big cryptocurrency, and potentially the successor/complement to bitcoin itself.  As a result, I think that all great developers will eventually be forced on board purely due to financial incentives.  It would be nice to have you join this early, while the inevitable financial incentives are less clear, so you can help us shape them.  
  

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October 22, 2015, 05:36:13 AM
Last edit: October 22, 2015, 06:30:47 AM by Jungian
 #15

One of the best podcasts to come out in a long time! It's very nice to listen to your talk. I hope to hear more

A few things came to mind

1) I think you might underestimate the use case for having a non governmental currency in the 1st world. Africans sure need it too, but I think a harbor away from the terrible fiscal policy in the west will be the number one driving force for adoption.

2) I also don't think that adopters from a random third world country will have any problems with the value going in to the chain where most of the early adopters are from a developed country. Well, the might mind on a pure intellectual level, but each user will pick the chain that gives them the most economic value and it's quite obvious that it will be the biggest chain.

Paul Sztorc, the inventor of truthcoin makes a good case for it in this blog post http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/basics/ and aslo Daniel Krawisz in his post http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-coming-demise-of-altcoins/#selection-13.7-13.21 and the conclusions are:

Quote
Bitcoin pushes the extremes of this “network-value/non-exchange-value ratio” to levels never before seen. Bitcoin’s value as a payment network definitely exists, but this value was itself directly a value of the underlying Bitcoin asset itself! Bitcoin’s value as a payment network increases as the market cap increases (the market cap is a function of itself)!

Quote
Altcoins are not viable because they cannot reproduce that which gives Bitcoin an overwhelming competitive edge: its market cap.

Just because someone doesn't want people in already privileged positions (when compared to the rest of the world) to make money isn't an argument enough to overcome the economic incentives of placing your value in the largest blockchain

3) I could't find "deconstructing currencies" by Michael Mainelli(?). Please point me in the right direction if that is possible!


4) Regarding the paper of energy consumption of BTC vs Ireland. https://karlodwyer.github.io/publications/pdf/bitcoin_KJOD_2014.pdf


Quote
Figure 5 shows conservative estimates for the total
power used for Bitcoin mining, assuming that
it consists of either efficient commodity hardware
(E = 2 Mhash/J) or efficient specialist hardware
(E = 2000 Mhash/J). The actual network will be
a mix of hardware of types at different levels of
efficiency, so we expect that the actual efficiency
will be between the two. This suggests that the
total power used for Bitcoin mining is around 0.1–
10GW. Average Irish electrical energy demand and
production is estimated at around 3GW [18, 19],
so it is plausible that the energy used by Bitcoin
mining is comparable to Irish national energy consumption.

I think it's probably much closer to the lower end here. They include regular FPGA/block erupters/ at the high end and state of the art hardware at the low end and given the hash power distribution of the network it's not reasonable to assume that the absolute majority of the network hashrate come from the state of the art hardware that is the most energy efficient. So the figure of total power used will probably be in the very low end of their assumption and much lower than the total usage of power in Ireland.



I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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October 22, 2015, 08:04:13 AM
 #16

Quote
Altcoins are not viable because they cannot reproduce that which gives Bitcoin an overwhelming competitive edge: its market cap.

Bitcoin's "competitive edge" is decentralization.  EG, even if BillGates made NeuCoin's market cap $50 billion, it still wouldn't offer Bitcoin's USP(s).

Altcoins do not need to reproduce BTC's market cap in its entirety to begin absorbing marginal cases driven off the Holy Blockchain by fee increases.  That's not how the substitution effect works.


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October 22, 2015, 10:51:27 AM
 #17

Yep listened to it again today! I will be forwarding this on for a few people I know to listen to.

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October 22, 2015, 11:24:41 AM
 #18

I wonder how feasible it would be to have Bitcoin as the primary currency, and have Alt coins for different functions ... Example : Use X-coin for Smart contracts and Y-Coin for remmittance etc. etc.. and then have

these coins be interchangeable with Bitcoin, like side-chains. Why do we need to have one Blockchain doing all these functions and getting bloated? I think that is more or less what he meant in the part where he

discussed side-chains, right? If a specific Alt coin is better suited and geared towards a specific application, rather use that... Why does Bitcoin need to do all of it? Break it up into smaller pieces with specialized

functions, and have developers for each function.  Huh

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October 22, 2015, 11:45:29 AM
 #19


Great read.

I really believe the future of cryptos will be tied to the fact that we wiil always have one coin to rule them all, while the big market of hundreds of other altcoins will work as fine tunning for the ruling coin. Other than that, the blockchain technology will be used in a lot of applications in the future.
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October 22, 2015, 03:46:22 PM
 #20

Quote
3) I could't find "deconstructing currencies" by Michael Mainelli(?). Please point me in the right direction if that is possible!

Here's your link http://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/taking-modern-money-apart

As for energy consumption, there are two more things to mention. First, it will always increase with the increase of market cap as there is excess value to capture. Second, no one is accounting for the embedded energy costs incumbent to the manufacturing and shipping of ASICs, which is non-trivial.

As for bitcoin maximalism, I do no agree with Paul's arguments. If they were valid then all countries would use the same currency. Altcoins do not leak value from a mainchain, they add new robustness to the ecosystem and thus bring in more people. Value comes from people. It's not a magical intrinsic property.

The revolution begins with the mind and ends with the heart. Knowledge for all, accessible to all and shared by all
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