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Author Topic: Why do you trust the miners?  (Read 2684 times)
ChristianK
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June 05, 2011, 03:11:47 AM
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If I understand the present set up the majority of the computing power that's provided by the miners decides about the way the network operates.
At the present you think that coin production through mining will magically stop in the future because it's written into the protocol.
After the initial adoption of the currency miners have an incentive to change the protocol in a way where mining produces more coins.
Why do you believe they won't?
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Vladimir
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June 05, 2011, 03:14:25 AM
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After the initial adoption of the currency miners have an incentive to change the protocol in a way where mining produces more coins.

False. Why would they want to turn gold into shit, literally?

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Bit_Happy
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June 05, 2011, 03:15:23 AM
 #3

You don't need to trust the miners, unless a single miner/pool has over 50% of the network power. They cannot just "change the code" since the changes would be rejected by the rest of the network.

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Garrett Burgwardt
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June 05, 2011, 03:16:08 AM
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Additionally, all of the users of bitcoin would have to change the rules too, otherwise the 'fake' blocks wouldn't be accepted, and the miners would have forked bitcoin into another currency.
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June 05, 2011, 03:18:26 AM
 #5

lol you described them like they were another species  Cheesy

you are a hobbit, they are dwarves. "don't trust the miner dwarves!!"

Dude65535
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June 05, 2011, 03:19:54 AM
 #6

The bitcoin protocol is designed so it is almost always more profitable to follow the rules than to break them. Its not hard to trust that people will want to make money.

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benjamindees
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June 05, 2011, 03:39:24 AM
 #7

Smeagol doesn't trust filthy minersess...  always trying to take my precious.

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chiropteran
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June 05, 2011, 03:41:39 AM
 #8

Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not... fuck with us.

tabshift
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June 05, 2011, 04:14:19 AM
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Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not... fuck with us.

 Grin
TheMagikarp
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June 05, 2011, 04:32:04 AM
 #10

Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances. We guard you while you sleep. Do not... fuck with us.
We are legion.

Don't know the difference between their, there and they're? I can help! (http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10562.0)
herbertfilby
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June 05, 2011, 04:36:19 AM
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RED FACTION!
jatajuta
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June 05, 2011, 10:18:14 AM
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Smeagol doesn't trust filthy minersess...  always trying to take my precious.

made me actually hear smeagol's voice. LOL
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June 05, 2011, 10:24:59 AM
 #13

Smeagol doesn't trust filthy minersess...  always trying to take my precious.

 Grin LOL
BubbleBoy
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June 05, 2011, 12:30:42 PM
 #14

<smeagolvoice>Miners are sneaky indeed, veeery sneaky.</smeagolvoice>

Photoshop guys, can we get one where he's holding a bitcoin ? It would sure apply to the speculators in the current block chain.

Horkabork
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June 05, 2011, 12:34:46 PM
 #15

I agree one hundred percent. In fact, I think the same thing about dollars as well. I mean, why should I spend all my time working for hardly any money when I could just start my own money system and pay myself in that?

On an hourly wage, I could get TONS more Horkaborkabills than US Dollars. In fact, I'd probably stop doing work things and just spend all my time printing more Horkaborkabills with no restraint. I can't believe nobody has thought of this before.

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ChristianK
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June 05, 2011, 01:00:32 PM
 #16

Quote
You don't need to trust the miners, unless a single miner/pool has over 50% of the network power.
The group of miners has an economic incentive to increase the amount of bitcoins that get created through mining.
You basically assume that the group will act against the self interest of it's members because no single member of the group can act according to his self interest.
Quote
False. Why would they want to turn gold into shit, literally?
At the moment central banks print money without "invalidating" the currency. People trust the central bank to refuse to print to much money.
You just shift your trust from one entity to another. The miners care about making the biggest profit possible.
Quote
Additionally, all of the users of bitcoin would have to change the rules too, otherwise the 'fake' blocks wouldn't be accepted, and the miners would have forked bitcoin into another currency.
Bitcoin weekly wrote that you can do stuff like double spending when you have 51% networking power. The group of miners can find a way to increase the money supply without doing anything that would get clients to refuse it.
kwukduck
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June 05, 2011, 01:09:33 PM
 #17



Yes, i know it can be done much better... just wanted to do a quick shop.

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Sukrim
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June 05, 2011, 01:12:59 PM
 #18

Bitcoin weekly wrote that you can do stuff like double spending when you have 51% networking power. The group of miners can find a way to increase the money supply without doing anything that would get clients to refuse it.
And how?
There are a few simple rules in BTC that all blocks have to obey to be valid:

1) Longest chain of valid blocks = valid
2) In the beginning of each block, some BTC can be sent out of nowhere to somewhere (= BTC creation, currently 50 BTC/block)
3) Additionally, transaction fees in that block can be sent somewhere
4) The "key" to solve each block must be at least of the difficulty X (which is agreed upon in the whole network)

Any block not fulfilling ALL of these criteria is not vaild. You can create blocks that generate 1000 BTC for example, nobody will accept them though.

50% attacks target the rule #1: while the rest of the network thinks they have the longest chain, a malicious miner might create their own part of the chain in the meantime faster than the rest of the network. In the meantime he spends a million coins on carrots and after the deal has been confirmed, he shows his own (longer) blockchain to the world where that transaction is not included.
The other guy (thinking he has received these BTC) has however already shipped the carrots and is now screwed.

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cloud9
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June 05, 2011, 01:13:15 PM
 #19

Would there be a bitcoin without miners?  Same for bitcoin merchants/traders/exchangers. Without you, would there be a very, very sercure network having bitcoins in it - but would bitcoins have no value in relation to any goods/services/other neither?

Disclaimer:  Postings of Cloud9 are only individual views of opinion and/or musings and/or hypothesisses.  On a non-authoritative, peer-to-peer public forum, you do not need permission from Cloud9 to derive your own conclusions or opinions, so please do.  Calculations and assumptions to be verified.
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June 05, 2011, 01:16:35 PM
 #20

my precioussss




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