bit pit - (LP, ESMPPS, 8-decimal payout, SSL, API, 0% fee, Almost 0% Stales!)

[lowentropy]

There was a big storm here, flooding, lightning, and water went all over my running hardware. This was just before the long round finished. I had to wait a day to make sure it was dry to even see if it still worked after I moved everything. I'm even surprised it still works after I saw water splash straight into my fans and all over the computer boards. There was water,paint, and dirt on top of capacitors and all the fans. Even the harddrive was on the ground when water poured over it while it ran, and it still works. I was standing in the water on the floor when lightning struck and I felt the current.

But unfortunately that means I missed the good luck streak here, I started mining again now, but in the chaos I forgot my password. Could you add a reset password from e-mail feature?

We certainly will, it's high on our list of things to do - in the meantime, if you will please email support, we can help you out.

[lowentropy]

If anybody notices their miners idling a lot or returning error messages, please let us know at the support email address; a few IPs out there are running up against our request rate limits, and we'd like to work with you to get you full access. Thanks!

[irosaurus]

If anybody notices their miners idling a lot or returning error messages, please let us know at the support email address; a few IPs out there are running up against our request rate limits, and we'd like to work with you to get you full access. Thanks!

yesterday between about 5 or 6pm to 8pm (UTC+2), I had over 200stales. my mining power is about 215mh/s, so quiet a lot but since that it seems stable and i have a stale rate of ~0,4%. so keep on the good work and don't let any ddos kiddies do that again

and not to forget, congratulations to everybody, block 8 was really fast - too bad that my ISP had problems exactly 45minutes before the block was solved and my connection to the web was cut

about the discussion on how to scatter the profit to members. as I am not always mining, I would also prefer a method different to slushs pool. don't know how the method is called, but it sucks that it's score based and your score rapidly falls when you're not mining...
does has someone maybe have a link where the different methods (smPPS,MaxPPS, PPS and prop.) are properly explained?

cheers iro

[hugolp]

If anybody notices their miners idling a lot or returning error messages, please let us know at the support email address; a few IPs out there are running up against our request rate limits, and we'd like to work with you to get you full access. Thanks!

Why not create a whiltelist system, like slush?

EDIT: the stale thing is weird. I get amazing stale count, but suddenly I get like a burst of stales, for example this just happened:

Code:

pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:35, 15e344e4, accepted
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:35, 6a9587b6, accepted
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:38, 3fa0e6a4, accepted
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:48, d228fc62, _rejected_
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:53, 39d74dee, _rejected_
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:56, 400c5ad2, _rejected_
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:58, e044bf7e, _rejected_
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:50:07, 658b753c, _rejected_
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:50:17, 0608dbdc, accepted
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:50:33, 957bcb54, accepted
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:50:42, 67c6fe07, accepted

It happens in random cards and only in this pool.

Except for this "bursts" of stales the stale count is amazing.

[lowentropy]

Why not create a whiltelist system, like slush?

We've certainly talked about it, but I'm not convinced yet We may end up there, though.

Except for this "bursts" of stales the stale count is amazing.

Wow, that is weird! It wasn't even after a new block or anything. I'll have to find out what's causing that. Thanks for the tip!

[hugolp]

Why not create a whiltelist system, like slush?

We've certainly talked about it, but I'm not convinced yet We may end up there, though.

Slush pool adds automatically the IP of the user to the whitelist (from the web browser), while allowing to add new IP's in the account screen. The people less experienced usually has the miners in the same IP, and the people that has big mining systems know how to add an IP to a list.

Also, I believe (but Im not sure) the whiltelist is off by default and only goes on when there is an attack on the pool.

[owowo]

You don't "like" other systems... that's ok. But with prop and realtime stats, you actually get ripped off by pool hoppers, so you'd be better off with PPS.

can u explain how the "ripoff" by the hoppers work?
I think prop is the most fair system because u get what u mine, ok the variance is high in how much u get due to the no. of shares a block has is different, but I think pps is just promoting hoppers. Because the pool with the highest BTC/share has the best offer for the miner.

correct me if I'm wrong i looked here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_pool_reward_FAQ and came to the conclusion.

[lowentropy]

Wow, looks like we've solved 3 blocks today

See, variance isn't always horrible

[Wuked]

You don't "like" other systems... that's ok. But with prop and realtime stats, you actually get ripped off by pool hoppers, so you'd be better off with PPS.

can u explain how the "ripoff" by the hoppers work?
I think prop is the most fair system because u get what u mine, ok the variance is high in how much u get due to the no. of shares a block has is different, but I think pps is just promoting hoppers. Because the pool with the highest BTC/share has the best offer for the miner.

correct me if I'm wrong i looked here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_pool_reward_FAQ and came to the conclusion.

Proportional with real time stats is the most abusable system by hoppers.

[flower1024]

i am not sure about that anymore.

but if the pool is very small and have very few hashrate left when the hoppers leave it could be a problem.

now i like the idea to just deface them. a prop pool could make a stats page showing how much people gained from hopping (eg got less in long rounds and more in short ones). and then let your users decide if its worth (without names of course. maybe even the hashrate should be obfuscated - so one with 5GH leaving (regulary) at 0.4 is as bad as one with 100MH).

but dont forget: if hoppers are on your pool and you have a fast round: they did also their work. its just a problem if most miners are hoppers and leave at 0.4 - so there maybe is just not enough hashrate left (but anyway: who would join a pool with an hashrate that low? - that counts even for hoppers).

otherwise the estimated reward of all other miners will raise up.

[owowo]

Wow, looks like we've solved 3 blocks today

See, variance isn't always horrible

it isn't when it's on ur side, then it's ur best friend, most commonly called luck ;o)

[irosaurus]

Why not create a whiltelist system, like slush?

I think there is one problem, I guess most of the people don't have a static IP. Mine for example is changing every day at 6am. so how would the pool know, that it is still me and would not reject me, because the IP is unknown?

EDIT: the stale thing is weird. I get amazing stale count, but suddenly I get like a burst of stales, for example this just happened:

Code:

pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:48, d228fc62, _rejected_
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:53, 39d74dee, _rejected_
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:56, 400c5ad2, _rejected_
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:49:58, e044bf7e, _rejected_
pool.bitp.it:8334 13/07/2011 21:50:07, 658b753c, _rejected_

It happens in random cards and only in this pool.

Except for this "bursts" of stales the stale count is amazing.

I experienced the same. I am using GuiMiner, so I have no exact log, but I saw it live in the stats
happened today at around 0:20am (or is it 12:20pm?) I had about 2-3 stales in a row. between 0:40-1:40am there where 5 and between 1:45-2:00am (UTC+2) there where even 13...

but I guess it was a good day today - 3 blocks found small reward for the long block and the hash rate ascends, too - nice to see

cheers iro

[1bitc0inplz]

Good job everyone, we had some good growth and luck today!

[1bitc0inplz]

I'm just catching up on the conversations from today. Good discussions everyone.

For what it's worth, I am not a fan of scoring systems. I hear those concerns echoed by others as well.

I am not opposed to proportional either, obviously or we wouldn't have switch to it 

I do see both sides to the pool hoppers argument, and am sensitive to both sides. On one hand they do provide real work, and as we've seen today we solved a couple of blocks under difficulty, so they (on average) will get us about half way to a block. However, I am also sensitive to the idea that during long rounds, their early efforts are not nearly as meaningful but they still walk away with some of the profits.

I completely understand both view points. I also like the idea that proportional is very simple to explain, virtually everybody does (or can easily) understand the proportional payout scheme. I've tried explaining the Meni Rosenfeld method, and it is not something that is very intuitive.

Not saying I'm opposed to other schemes, but given what I do know about the various reward schemes I'm inclined to prefer either proportional or SMPPS.

The attractive aspects of SMPPS is that it's somewhat easy to explain, not nearly as easy to explain as Prop. but still pretty simple. I also like it because it helps reward everyone of their disproportional amount of work during a long round. And, unlike scoring, does not penalize someone who might have to, legitimately, leave a round early (think power outage, internet failure, etc).

Either way, those are just my thoughts. I figured it might help the conversation if I said what my feelings on the matter were.

does has someone maybe have a link where the different methods (smPPS,MaxPPS, PPS and prop.) are properly explained?

Here is a pretty good comparison: http://eligius.st/~luke-jr/samples/800MH/

[Sangre]

EDIT: the stale thing is weird. I get amazing stale count, but suddenly I get like a burst of stales, for example this just happened:

It happens in random cards and only in this pool.

Except for this "bursts" of stales the stale count is amazing.

I confirm that, I have the same problem.

[tohwis]

I like the pool but my hashrate is lower here than on other pools. When I mine at BTC-Guild or Deepbit I have appr. 270Mhash, but on this pool I have 220-230. What's that all about?

[1bitc0inplz]

EDIT: the stale thing is weird. I get amazing stale count, but suddenly I get like a burst of stales, for example this just happened:

It happens in random cards and only in this pool.

Except for this "bursts" of stales the stale count is amazing.

I confirm that, I have the same problem.

Thanks, we will also look into yours and see if there is a correlation. However, if you had only just experienced them at apprometly the time you posted that message, just for note, we were fighting off a series of fake getwork submissions and were fiddling with out incoming traffic filters.

I like the pool but my hashrate is lower here than on other pools. When I mine at BTC-Guild or Deepbit I have appr. 270Mhash, but on this pool I have 220-230. What's that all about?

Thanks!

As for the hash rate on our site. Just like Deepbit or BTC Guild, the hash rate we display is simply an estimate and doesn't play a part in your earnings. Different pools are going to use different algorithms for estimating your estimated hash rate, add in some variance, and then you have a recipe for seeing different estimates no matter which pool you view.

However, I can tell you that our pool looks at your last N share submissions and calculates your hash rate based off of that. So, if you are just starting mining with us, or if there was a gap in your mining (eg, stopped your mining software to reconfigure it, etc), then your estimated hash rate will be a lot lower. After a few shares are submitted this will level out and IMHO start to show you a pretty good estimate of your hash rate.

[tohwis]

As for the hash rate on our site. Just like Deepbit or BTC Guild, the hash rate we display is simply an estimate and doesn't play a part in your earnings. Different pools are going to use different algorithms for estimating your estimated hash rate, add in some variance, and then you have a recipe for seeing different estimates no matter which pool you view.

However, I can tell you that our pool looks at your last N share submissions and calculates your hash rate based off of that. So, if you are just starting mining with us, or if there was a gap in your mining (eg, stopped your mining software to reconfigure it, etc), then your estimated hash rate will be a lot lower. After a few shares are submitted this will level out and IMHO start to show you a pretty good estimate of your hash rate.

Okay, thanks for the clarification, but I was under the impression that my client always shows the right hashrate, no? I'm not comparing the stats on different pool's sites, just on my own client. I'll need to double check that I use the same flags and options for your pools as I use on other pools when I get home.

[1bitc0inplz]

Okay, thanks for the clarification, but I was under the impression that my client always shows the right hashrate, no? I'm not comparing the stats on different pool's sites, just on my own client. I'll need to double check that I use the same flags and options for your pools as I use on other pools when I get home.

Ok, I apologize. I thought you were referring to the hash rate estimation we display on our website.

Yes, you are correct, your miner will always display your "true" hash rate. And that shouldn't vary between pools unless your miner is idling a lot. I'm not sure about all the various mining software, but I know phoenix very noticeably says when it's idling.

If you are using the same flags, and you are not seeing any warnings about an empty queue or idle miner, let me know what mining app (and version if known) you are using. Also, your OS might be helpful too.

If all the settings do turn out to be the same on your end, I must say, this would be a first for me. But, I don't want to rule anything out either. 

[1bitc0inplz]

EDIT: the stale thing is weird. I get amazing stale count, but suddenly I get like a burst of stales, for example this just happened:

It happens in random cards and only in this pool.

Except for this "bursts" of stales the stale count is amazing.

I confirm that, I have the same problem.

I just got done looking over our logs, and I do see a lot of stale shares coming from your works.

For example:

13 Jul 23:39:29 - info: getwork: stale share from XXXX
13 Jul 23:39:31 - info: getwork: stale share from XXXX
13 Jul 23:39:32 - info: getwork: stale share from XXXX

If you could tell me what miner you use, and what version you have that would be helpful. From our longpool logs it appears that you only have 2 open longpool connections, but four miners. Also, this rapid stales, like the above, indicates that either you don't have a longpool connection open or that we were not successful in getting you the LP getwork soon enough.

Also, on issues like this, for everyone I'd be curious to know what your ping response time to pool.bitp.it is. Network latence will play a small roll, and I figured it probably best to get as much info as possible 

Thanks all!