Hardware Prospects for 2015-2016 Mining

[EternalWingsofGod]

To my knowledge the main mining choices for home-users at present are Antminters.

I was wondering what options may be coming out in the near-mid term future for home miners and which current generation miners would benefit the most from liquid cooling to increase their efficiencies using 3M's liquid cooling technology or similar tech.

I'm mostly curious because of some Big IPO's like Bank to The Future funding government approved Bitcoin mines in Australia and whether home mining will be competitive up to the next Bitcoin halving.

http://insidebitcoins.com/news/bnktothefuture-becomes-first-company-to-launch-bitcoin-mining-ipo-in-australia/35434

In case people wanted more information excrypt below.

Bitcoin Group Limited (ASX code BCG) has received Australian Securities and Investment Commission (ASIC) approval on 4 September for an AU$20 million public offer, with a proposed listing on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) scheduled for 11 November 2015.

Registered on 4 September 2014, the company has turned a gross profit of AU$431,000 for FY2015 after establishing its first mining operation in January this year.

The world’s first Bitcoin industry IPO offers retail and institutional investors a 60.7% share of Bitcoin Group’s profitable mining operation to create a truly public Bitcoin company. With 8.6% and 30.7% retained by the cofounders and existing shareholders, respectively.

The proposed IPO is on track to be oversubscribed with Bitcoin Group having already reached its minimum capital raising target. Considering this demand, Bitcoin Group is limiting its ASX BookBuild to AU$2 million.

Approximately 90% of proceeds raised from the IPO will go towards expanding Bitcoin mining’s operations and meeting the costs of its existing activities. The remaining 10% of capital will cover expenses associated with salaries, sales commissions, listing fees and marketing.

http://www.bitcoingroup.com.au/bitcoin-mining-set-to-go-for-world-first-ipo/
https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2421/_spv-to-invest-in-bitcoin-group-the-world-s-first-bitcoin-mining-ipo.html

[1715300939]

1715300939

[1715300939]

1715300939

[1715300939]

1715300939

[Dalkore]

The prospects for the home miner is not good.   Centralization is increasing along with the infrastructure requirement (case & point - SP50).  I think we will see a rise in the private funding of mining cooperatives or mining royalty trusts.  KNC I believe is no longer selling to the public and I think Bitfury followed the same path.   

[mwizard]

Bitcoin Group Limited (ASX code BCG) has received Australian Securities and Investment Commission (ASIC) approval on 4 September for an AU$20 million public offer, with a proposed listing on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) scheduled for 11 November 2015.

Registered on 4 September 2014, the company has turned a gross profit of AU$431,000 for FY2015 after establishing its first mining operation in January this year.
http://www.bitcoingroup.com.au/bitcoin-mining-set-to-go-for-world-first-ipo/
https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2421/_spv-to-invest-in-bitcoin-group-the-world-s-first-bitcoin-mining-ipo.html

Before anyone gets too excited about a gross profit of $431,000 note that it is Gross Profit.  Gross Profit ignores such things as salaries, wages, rent, interest, advertising and everything else involved in the overheads of running a business.

From their prospectus the actual Net profit after tax for FY2015 was just AU$10,000.

Interestingly they seem to have done well from the change in value of Bitcoin. They earned $59,000 in FY2015 from the "Fair value gain/(loss) on Bitcoins, net of tax".  

[notlist3d]

The prospects for the home miner is not good.   Centralization is increasing along with the infrastructure requirement (case & point - SP50).  I think we will see a rise in the private funding of mining cooperatives or mining royalty trusts.  KNC I believe is no longer selling to the public and I think Bitfury followed the same path.   

I'm not sure SP really was mainly focused on data center gear.  They later came with sp20 jackson for home, but they reported at the end they were selling at a loss.  So them going just data center is not huge surprise.  We might see some data center gear later on smaller data centers or hobby miners.  But home miners wanting to put on 110/120 is going to be hard.

I think there will be a decent amount of gear but it will be for what I consider "hobby" miners. This is a step between home and data center.  It's those home miners with a good amount of power and 220/240.

I think the year for home miner will have some, but lower and lower machines for just home on 110/120.

[EternalWingsofGod]

The prospects for the home miner is not good.   Centralization is increasing along with the infrastructure requirement (case & point - SP50).  I think we will see a rise in the private funding of mining cooperatives or mining royalty trusts.  KNC I believe is no longer selling to the public and I think Bitfury followed the same path.  

Thanks I was presuming the same, I was considering the natural consequences of listing Bitcoin miners to Stock exchanges to services such as cloud-mining and the sort as wizard said when net profit is $10,000 it makes me wonder how those shares will make any profit for shareholders.
Although the market will adjust and people will place short positions if they really can't perform.

It may be a pattern in the future that the new Home-Miner is a stock holder in a central miner but the evidence of that is not quite apparent yet.

Bitcoin Group Limited (ASX code BCG) has received Australian Securities and Investment Commission (ASIC) approval on 4 September for an AU$20 million public offer, with a proposed listing on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) scheduled for 11 November 2015.

Registered on 4 September 2014, the company has turned a gross profit of AU$431,000 for FY2015 after establishing its first mining operation in January this year.
http://www.bitcoingroup.com.au/bitcoin-mining-set-to-go-for-world-first-ipo/
https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2421/_spv-to-invest-in-bitcoin-group-the-world-s-first-bitcoin-mining-ipo.html

Before anyone gets too excited about a gross profit of $431,000 note that it is Gross Profit.  Gross Profit ignores such things as salaries, wages, rent, interest, advertising and everything else involved in the overheads of running a business.

From their prospectus the actual Net profit after tax for FY2015 was just AU$10,000.

That said they did a good job in a market of declining profits to keep a net positive balance with 1.8% of the network at least according to the stats on their webpage.

The prospects for the home miner is not good.   Centralization is increasing along with the infrastructure requirement (case & point - SP50).  I think we will see a rise in the private funding of mining cooperatives or mining royalty trusts.  KNC I believe is no longer selling to the public and I think Bitfury followed the same path.   

I think the year for home miner will have some, but lower and lower machines for just home on 110/120.

A quick question there I know 220/240 is cheaper electricity but would that mean most North American users would need to use converters on 110/120 lines presuming home mining goes the route of building units that cannot transform electrictity voltages both ways?

[QuintLeo]

In most cases, electricity supplied to US homes is 220v split-phase - and gets split down to 110v at the main breaker panel for most circuits IN the home, usually with a couple of 220v circuits for large appliances like electric driers.

 It's possible to set up 220v circuits out of the panel, but you need someone competant at wiring to do so (most home owners and apartment dwellers would have to hire a professional, and most apartment landlords are NOT willing to allow modifications like that to their apartments).

 The difference in efficiency is noticeable but not huge - typically 1-2% ballpark. There is ZERO difference in the rate the electric company charges.


 SP was focused but not exclusive on units intended for data center use - the SP20 was the only real exception - but they have gone "exclusive" since their merger deal.


 At this time, the only "home" units available (and that seems to be spotty the last couple weeks, Bitmain appears like it might be waiting on the next batch of chips from the foundery to start selling more units) are the S7 Antminers - but that appears to be about to change.
 Avalon has announced their new Avalon 6 unit due shortly (next month I think?).
 Lketc/BW.com announced a couple months ago a home-level miner due probably in December - though exact specs on THAT unit have been a bit spotty.

 Innosilicon likely has at least 2 miner designs in the works as well, one for SHA256 based on their S3 one for Scrypt based on their A4.

 SFARDS seems to have faded back into the woodwork, no news at all on when/if they plan to put more of their SF100 units on sale.
 My suspicion there is "bad board level reliability, took the unit back to the drawing board for a redesign".

[notlist3d]

The prospects for the home miner is not good.   Centralization is increasing along with the infrastructure requirement (case & point - SP50).  I think we will see a rise in the private funding of mining cooperatives or mining royalty trusts.  KNC I believe is no longer selling to the public and I think Bitfury followed the same path.   

I think the year for home miner will have some, but lower and lower machines for just home on 110/120.

A quick question there I know 220/240 is cheaper electricity but would that mean most North American users would need to use converters on 110/120 lines presuming home mining goes the route of building units that cannot transform electrictity voltages both ways?

They actually don't need a "converter" it is more equipment then say a plug you put in wall.  You need to actually get better guage electrical wire to handle the higher amps.  Also need a different circuit breaker that is set up for 220/240 depending on electricity.

It's actually not that uncommon in US a lot of dishwashers and a  few items use them. But most houses don't put in extra 220/240 in us for items.  So you have to get it installed or install it yourself (depends on local ordinances and your knowledge in the area).

[QuintLeo]

220 uses half the current for the same power vs 110.

Many 220 circuits are designed for higher amperage and a LOT more power than typical US 15amp circuits though - 20 amps 220 circuits for clothes driers are pretty common, for example.
 I don't know of ANY non-commercial dishwasher that uses 220 - they're NOT that high a power draw.
 Some high-end window air conditioners use 220.
 Some homes will have 1 or 2 220 outlets in a garage/workshop area, typically intended for use on a small welder or a largish air compressor, but those are usually installed in custom designs not by default, or were a later add-on by the owner.

 Many electric heating units of the non-portable variety use 220, as does ANY electrical "central heat" unit I am aware of and most electric hot water heaters (those are generally hard-wired dedicated circuits though, not on outlets).

[EternalWingsofGod]

The prospects for the home miner is not good.   Centralization is increasing along with the infrastructure requirement (case & point - SP50).  I think we will see a rise in the private funding of mining cooperatives or mining royalty trusts.  KNC I believe is no longer selling to the public and I think Bitfury followed the same path.  

I think the year for home miner will have some, but lower and lower machines for just home on 110/120.

A quick question there I know 220/240 is cheaper electricity but would that mean most North American users would need to use converters on 110/120 lines presuming home mining goes the route of building units that cannot transform electrictity voltages both ways?

They actually don't need a "converter" it is more equipment then say a plug you put in wall.  You need to actually get better guage electrical wire to handle the higher amps.  Also need a different circuit breaker that is set up for 220/240 depending on electricity.

It's actually not that uncommon in US a lot of dishwashers and a  few items use them. But most houses don't put in extra 220/240 in us for items.  So you have to get it installed or install it yourself (depends on local ordinances and your knowledge in the area).

Thanks, your right there are 220/240 Lines in use in North America it's just that they tend to be hidden because their designated to appliances and the sort, which is why I never really noticed those lines as they are always in use powering the fridge dishwashers laundry etc.

I'm used to seeing 110/120 sockets for everyday uses and forgot about those ones, although changing all the wires in a house is a far larger project for a dedicated miner, the only time I considered full wire changing myself is when our home line to the web was replaced with Cat 6 cables outside the house as that was what the ISP provides but the original cables installed a long time ago inside the house were left to the home users to connect for the last mile.

 At this time, the only "home" units available (and that seems to be spotty the last couple weeks, Bitmain appears like it might be waiting on the next batch of chips from the foundery to start selling more units) are the S7 Antminers - but that appears to be about to change.
 Avalon has announced their new Avalon 6 unit due shortly (next month I think?).
 Lketc/BW.com announced a couple months ago a home-level miner due probably in December - though exact specs on THAT unit have been a bit spotty.

 Innosilicon likely has at least 2 miner designs in the works as well, one for SHA256 based on their S3 one for Scrypt based on their A4.

 SFARDS seems to have faded back into the woodwork, no news at all on when/if they plan to put more of their SF100 units on sale.
 My suspicion there is "bad board level reliability, took the unit back to the drawing board for a redesign".

So still floating with a few theoretical choices but not completed designs, at the minimum it seems like their still may be a few choices left for Home-Mining in the future thanks for that.

[QuintLeo]

We have a price and semi-hard stats for the Avalon 6 now.
$1300, 3.65 TH, power works out to almost exactly 1100 watts with a 90% PS (spec is .29 watts/GH with a 93% PS).
It's a non-starter IMO, higher per TH than the S7 by a bit for a bit worse efficiency.
About the only way they are going to sell these is
 (1) Bitmain keeps having "out of stock" on the S7
 (2) Some folks prefer Avalon for historical or past experience reasons

 Did my current standard assumptions RoI calculation on both at 3c/KWH - the S7 hits RoI almost a month sooner, *IF* you can get one ordered today and if the November 10 date on the Avalon is an actual ship date.

 Looks like I'm still waiting for the Lketc/BW.com and potential but no announcment Innosilicon miners.

[alh]

We have a price and semi-hard stats for the Avalon 6 now.
$1300, 3.65 TH, power works out to almost exactly 1100 watts with a 90% PS (spec is .29 watts/GH with a 93% PS).
It's a non-starter IMO, higher per TH than the S7 by a bit for a bit worse efficiency.
About the only way they are going to sell these is
 (1) Bitmain keeps having "out of stock" on the S7
 (2) Some folks prefer Avalon for historical or past experience reasons

 Did my current standard assumptions RoI calculation on both at 3c/KWH - the S7 hits RoI almost a month sooner, *IF* you can get one ordered today and if the November 10 date on the Avalon is an actual ship date.

 Looks like I'm still waiting for the Lketc/BW.com and potential but no announcment Innosilicon miners.

Thanks for the update. It may well prompt Bitmain to produce an "S7 Lite" or something like that. That may be good for some folks that balked at the current S7's price/loudness/power/heat profile. If your figures are right, then it doesn't look like it will put any pressure on Bitmain to reduce $$$/TH (which is too bad).