Spanish PM dismisses Catalan secession proposals as act of provocation

[zenitzz]

Mariano Rajoy uses live televised address to denounce plan put forward by two secessionist parties to begin process of forming independent state

Spain’s prime minister vowed on Tuesday to defend the country’s unity and dismissed a new proposal by two secessionist parties to have Catalonia’s regional parliament announce the beginning of a process to form a new state.

In a special address carried live on national television, Mariano Rajoy, called the proposal an act of provocation that was “contrary to the constitution, the law, the feelings of the majority of Catalans and the democratic will of Spaniards”.

“Those who want to separate and divide Catalonia from Spain should know that they will not achieve this,” he said.

Catalonia, a region of 7.5 million people in north-east Spain, is responsible for nearly a fifth of the country’s economic output and residents have long prided themselves on their separate language and culture.

Polls show Catalans overwhelmingly support the right to hold a secession referendum, but are roughly evenly divided over independence. In an election in September, the pro-independence camp won 72 of the Catalan parliament’s 135 seats, but only 48% of the popular vote.

Tuesday’s proposition was filed by the Junts pel Sí or Together for Yes alliance that won 62 seats in September’s election, along with the radical left Candidatura d’Unitat Popular (CUP), which won 10 seats.

It calls for the parliament, which is based in Barcelona, to vote on the motion quickly, but it is unlikely to have more than symbolic importance because the region has yet to form a new government.

No date was set for the vote.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/27/spanish-pm-dismisses-catalan-secession-proposals-as-act-of-provocation

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[countryfree]

Yes, provocative and selfish, too. I was supporting an independent Scotland, but Catalonia is a part of Spain, and it couldn't live without the rest of Spain. Some catalans think they will emulate Switzerland, but they're very wrong, they would not get any foreign investment, and they don't have any natural resources like Scotland has in the North Sea. Also, in case of trouble, the ECB won't have any other choice but to let them die.

[christycalhoun]

Yes, provocative and selfish, too. I was supporting an independent Scotland, but Catalonia is a part of Spain, and it couldn't live without the rest of Spain. Some catalans think they will emulate Switzerland, but they're very wrong, they would not get any foreign investment, and they don't have any natural resources like Scotland has in the North Sea. Also, in case of trouble, the ECB won't have any other choice but to let them die.

Spain as a whole is a sinking ship of bad financial decisions so I dont blame catalan for wanting to leave. Its not like they would do any better though

[MbccompanyX]

i'm not surprised at all, when somebody decides to cause a secession just pass it as a act of provocation and all is solved... too bad that here in italy we have such a thing with lega nord and his padania but is just an excuse to be racist to who lives in south italy but the spain situation is something more serious then a single act of provocation....

[countryfree]

Yes, provocative and selfish, too. I was supporting an independent Scotland, but Catalonia is a part of Spain, and it couldn't live without the rest of Spain. Some catalans think they will emulate Switzerland, but they're very wrong, they would not get any foreign investment, and they don't have any natural resources like Scotland has in the North Sea. Also, in case of trouble, the ECB won't have any other choice but to let them die.

Spain as a whole is a sinking ship of bad financial decisions so I dont blame catalan for wanting to leave. Its not like they would do any better though

No, don't say that. The Spanish economy had the fastest growth in Europe during the second quarter. I know it's not enough considering how bad they were, but they're on the right path. It would be scary for Catalonia to move away from it. I don't see investors following them, and it would make things much more complicated for all companies who have part of their business in Catalonia, and the other regions of Spain.

[zenitzz]

Court halts Catalonia independence bid to hear central government appeal

Mariano Rajoy’s ruling People’s party says Spain’s constitution has safeguards to prevent individual states declaring laws that affect all Spaniards


Spain’s constitutional court has suspended a Catalan law setting out a roadmap to independence, halting the region’s secession drive two days after it was formally launched.

In a special meeting on Wednesday, the court unanimously agreed to hear the central government’s challenge, filed hours earlier. The decision means the Catalan legislation will be suspended for up to five months while judges hear arguments and reach a decision.

Spain’s prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, described the Catalan legislation as an affront to democracy. He said of the government’s challenge: “It’s not just a reaction to a motion passed in parliament, this is about defending a whole country.”

He cited Spain’s constitution, which impedes regions from unilaterally making decisions that affect all Spaniards, to back his view. “This is a blatant disregard for the state’s institutions. They are trying to do away with democracy. I will not allow it,” he said.

The Catalan legislation calls for further laws to be drawn up to facilitate the creation of an independent social security system and tax authority within the next 30 days. In anticipation that it would be blocked by Spanish courts, the legislation specifies that the regional parliament will no longer be bound to decisions made by institutions of the Spanish state, in particular the constitutional court.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/11/spains-central-government-takes-on-catalonia-independence-bid-in-court

[fritzi]

The union of autonomous communities call spain will soon break into different countries.

[zenitzz]

The union of autonomous communities call spain will soon break into different countries.

Catalan politicians are no different to the rest of Spain. Besides the majority of the hardworking people in Catalunya are from other parts of Spain; thirdly, Catalunya itself is split in half and at the last election, the city of Barcelona was lost to the secessionists

[Lethn]

Yes, provocative and selfish, too. I was supporting an independent Scotland, but Catalonia is a part of Spain, and it couldn't live without the rest of Spain. Some catalans think they will emulate Switzerland, but they're very wrong, they would not get any foreign investment, and they don't have any natural resources like Scotland has in the North Sea. Also, in case of trouble, the ECB won't have any other choice but to let them die.

Spain as a whole is a sinking ship of bad financial decisions so I dont blame catalan for wanting to leave. Its not like they would do any better though

No, don't say that. The Spanish economy had the fastest growth in Europe during the second quarter. I know it's not enough considering how bad they were, but they're on the right path. It would be scary for Catalonia to move away from it. I don't see investors following them, and it would make things much more complicated for all companies who have part of their business in Catalonia, and the other regions of Spain.

I don't know about the whole Catalan being seperate from Spain thing, but it has had it's routes in Anarchism since the spanish civil war, I think it's incredibly undemocratic and extremely dishonest to deny people the ability to leave a country if they actually want to even if they're only a province. If Wales or Northern Ireland wanted to leave the UK I wouldn't stop them from doing it, besides, self-governance is nothing to do with selfishness, I don't know how that got brought up, why the fuck would you stay with a failing country if you know you could do things better?

[bryant.coleman]

If the Scots can vote in a referendum and decide whether they want their independence or not, then why should that option should not be made available to the Catalans? If the majority of the Catalans don't want to stay with Spain, then they should be granted independence. You cannot keep them forcefully within Spain for a long time.

[troleybüs]

If the Scots can vote in a referendum and decide whether they want their independence or not, then why should that option should not be made available to the Catalans? If the majority of the Catalans don't want to stay with Spain, then they should be granted independence. You cannot keep them forcefully within Spain for a long time.

That's what will happen next years. Maybe 3, maybe 10 years later but it will definitely happen. Catalans are richer than Spanish people so they don't have to worry about their financial situation. I support free Catalonia.

[Nemo1024]

Yes, provocative and selfish, too. I was supporting an independent Scotland, but Catalonia is a part of Spain, and it couldn't live without the rest of Spain. Some catalans think they will emulate Switzerland, but they're very wrong, they would not get any foreign investment, and they don't have any natural resources like Scotland has in the North Sea. Also, in case of trouble, the ECB won't have any other choice but to let them die.

Rather the opposite - Spain couldn't live without Catalonia, it being the main industrial backbone of the country's economy.

Also, there is a direct comparison possible between Scotland and Catalonia (and Donbass and Crimea for that matter)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalonia

Catalonia comprises most of the territory of the former Principality of Catalonia, with the remainder now part of France's Pyrénées-Orientales. It is bordered by France and Andorra to the north, the Mediterranean Sea to the east, and the Spanish autonomous communities of Aragon to the west and the Valencian Community to the south. The official languages are Catalan, Spanish, and the Aranese dialect of Occitan

Not so recent history:

n the nineteenth century Catalonia was severely affected by the Napoleonic and Carlist Wars. In the second half of the century Catalonia experienced industrialisation. As wealth from the industrial expansion grew, Catalonia saw a cultural renaissance coupled with incipient nationalism while several workers movements appeared. In 1913, the four Catalan provinces formed a Commonwealth, and with the return of democracy during the Second Spanish Republic (1931–39), the Generalitat of Catalonia was restored as an autonomous government.

And to confirm my assertion above:

From the late 1950s through to the early 1970s, Catalonia saw rapid economic growth, drawing many workers from across Spain, making Barcelona one of Europe's largest industrial metropolitan areas and Catalonia into a major tourist destination. Since the Spanish transition to democracy (1975–82), Catalonia has gained some political and cultural autonomy and is now one of the most economically dynamic communities of Spain.

[Losvienleg]

Yes, provocative and selfish, too. I was supporting an independent Scotland, but Catalonia is a part of Spain, and it couldn't live without the rest of Spain. Some catalans think they will emulate Switzerland, but they're very wrong, they would not get any foreign investment, and they don't have any natural resources like Scotland has in the North Sea. Also, in case of trouble, the ECB won't have any other choice but to let them die.

You're right. Scotland's independence has a reason to exist, Catalonia not. It is an important part of Spain, so it will never be good that they secede. Franco, come back !