Forbidden Ideas

[yogi]

I have a question.

Can it be a crime to use your imagination?

Are there forbidden ideas that it is a crime to think of?

I am thinking of Satoshi, what he really gave us is the idea of bitcoin. An idea that this community has built on.

So, is it right that he has been made to feel that he must hide his identity for fear of prosecution?

Is Satoshi just paranoid or is he being clever?

Should we all be careful about the ideas we have?

Every time I have an idea, should I just keep my mouth shut?

Or, is it safe to use your imagination as long as you play no part in its implementation.

Would the creator of limewire still be sued for $75 trillion if all he had done was release a white paper?

[CIYAM]

Unfortunately we seem to be living in a time where the idea of "sharing information" have been re-labelled as "stealing information" (how can you really "steal" information - as far as I can see you can only copy it) - the two worst things IMHO that have affected software since the 1970's were application of copyright and patents to software (two things that are IMHO 100% not needed in the industry and have produced 0% benefit to it).

[underminer]

Interesting idea, but I really don't think bitcoin is a good example of this.  Some people think Satoshi is several companies' project, and that once the training wheels came off they took a step back and let things develop.  I think this idea is ridiculous.  (What company gives away a controlling interest in something profitable if they don't have to do it?) I think it's more like an individual's (or group's) idea that simply wouldn't have taken off if the creator's influence was still around or there had been a charge to use it.  Curiosity is a big motivator and bitcoin is a huge question mark, still.

[securo]

Can it be a crime to use your imagination?

Are there forbidden ideas that it is a crime to think of?

About criminal ideas:

In Germany you may think the war crimes never did happen, but you are forbidden to say it out loud.
In Norway, the government is trying to outlaw "one-man conspiracies" after the july, 22nd bomb attack. You do not have to tell anyone, you just have to have the intention. I doubt the law will ever be signed, but just the intention...
In all the heavily controlled societies in the world I guess you should mostly keep quiet or else.

Ideas are contagious, and therefore dangerous to anyone with different ideas.

[myrkul]

Are there forbidden ideas that it is a crime to think of?

Only in the most paranoid and controlling societies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime

In other words, soon, yes, there will be.

[MysteryMiner]

It was dangerous to think in Soviet Union. It is dangerous to think in modern western world including USA and European Union and in many parts of middle and far east.

We are slowly returning to totalitarian state, this time in global scale and almost with no place to hide. We already are prepared to this - internet censorship in China and now in most parts of the world, total surveillance in United Kingdom, crippled courts run by imbeciles in USA, dictator-alike figurehead with drones and secret kill list in USA. And the totalitarian crap is spreading everywhere where the so called "democracy" "free market" "capitalism" and multiculturalism exists. I can name less than 10 countries where the movement is opposite. Iran, North Korea, Libya, Syria (fate unknown), Venezuela, Cuba, Lebanon (to some extent).

Satoshi was smart to hide. He can reveal himself at any moment using the PGP keys if he wishes, but he cannot hide if he is known from beginning.

[yogi]

I am not sure if thought crime and what I am talking about is the same thing.

Here's a hypothetical;

Say someone, lets call him 'Honest Jon' comes up with an idea to merge file sharing with bitcoin technology. Lets call it 'Bitwire'. Jon outlines how Bitwire would work but provides no reference implementation.

Later a reference implementation appears created by a mysterious person or persons unknown but who goes by the pseudonym 'Satamo Nakosito'.

Now the way Bitwire works is by rewarding those who provide content to download with coins. People who just want to leach have to obtain coins in other ways. The incentive for people to provide and make available content makes Bitwire successful. And, as usual copy-write infringement abounds.

The film and music industry are up in arms and want to sue. As they can not identify Satamo they go after Jon.

Now, can Jon be prosecuted merely for coming up with the idea?

[myrkul]

I am not sure if thought crime and what I am talking about is the same thing.

Here's a hypothetical;

Say someone, lets call him 'Honest Jon' comes up with an idea to merge file sharing with bitcoin technology. Lets call it 'Bitwire'. Jon outlines how Bitwire would work but provides no reference implementation.

Later a reference implementation appears created by a mysterious person or persons unknown but who goes by the pseudonym 'Satamo Nakosito'.

Now the way Bitwire works is by rewarding those who provide content to download with coins. People who just want to leach have to obtain coins in other ways. The incentive for people to provide and make available content makes Bitwire successful. And, as usual copy-write infringement abounds.

The film and music industry are up in arms and want to sue. As they can not identify Satamo they go after Jon.

Now, can Jon be prosecuted merely for coming up with the idea?

Well, firstly, yeah, that's "thoughtcrime."

Secondly, we run up against the "should/is" problem. I don't believe any polity currently extant has laws forbidding the publishing of white papers detailing how something might be done (your example, by the way, is an excellent idea), but that doesn't mean that no government will ever pass such laws. Certainly they would be unconstitutional if passed in the US (not that that has stopped anyone lately), and they'd be exceedingly oppressive and wrong, but, again, that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen.

[MysteryMiner]

The film and music industry are up in arms and want to sue. As they can not identify Satamo they go after Jon.

Now, can Jon be prosecuted merely for coming up with the idea?

Quite possible in USA and EU. Even if the person is not found guilty, he will lose many years of life, his computer equipment, privacy and money when harassed by three letter agencies and court. Learn from Phil Zimmerman. If he would know what will follow, he probably would publish his work under Seppuku Fujitsu name.

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

Illegal ideas?  Even worse than that...they have tried to outlaw plain old numbers.  Sounds like a joke or the height of stupidity, doesn't it?  Like that legislature that declared Pi to be exactly 3 by law in the 1800s.  But, incredibly, it's true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number

So you bet your life that they can, and will, outlaw ideas.

[bruj0]

This could be an interesting thread ...... if I was not terrified that my opinions could flag me as a criminal / terrorist / fanatic /  or free thinker.... LOL

[securo]

This could be an interesting thread ...... if I was not terrified that my opinions could flag me as a criminal / terrorist / fanatic /  or free thinker.... LOL

.. ever considered illegalism? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegalism

[myrkul]

This could be an interesting thread ...... if I was not terrified that my opinions could flag me as a criminal / terrorist / fanatic /  or free thinker.... LOL

.. ever considered illegalism? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegalism

Better idea: Agorism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism

[bruj0]

This could be an interesting thread ...... if I was not terrified that my opinions could flag me as a criminal / terrorist / fanatic /  or free thinker.... LOL

.. ever considered illegalism?  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegalism

Better idea: Agorism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism

More Realistically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onanism LOL

[QuestionAuthority]

Satoshi is a Japanese name for boys meaning clear-thinking.

He probably clearly understood the impending ramifications of his brainchild and wanted no part of it. Creation is itself very rewarding. There will eventually be a war waged against cryptocurrency by standing leadership worldwide and it will be a messy one. It seems to me Satoshi was thinking clearly indeed.