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Author Topic: It's already somehow inconvenient to use BTC as a currency  (Read 3046 times)
qikaifu
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June 05, 2011, 04:28:14 PM
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The price is too high.

I'm living in China, I want to sold several my books, it's about 10-30 CNY, and worth only 0.09 BTC-0.27 BTC.

You can see the inconvenience lies in the small numbers, though it's not very obvious.

If the prices keeps going up, the problem is going to be obvious. So I suggest that the team move fast, to make something = 10^-3 BTC.

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June 05, 2011, 04:32:00 PM
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Don't forget the transfer fee just ate 10% of the low end of your BTC book price.

Maybe it would be tolerable if the transfer fees would deflate with the currency.

That doesn't seem to be happening. Perhaps  0.3.22 will allow 0.000001 transfer fees.

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June 05, 2011, 04:33:54 PM
 #3

Whoever mandated the .01 transaction fee on a complete whim is a complete and utter moron. We need the fee lowered IMMEDIATELY.
wumpus
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June 05, 2011, 04:36:08 PM
 #4

The fee should really move to 0.001 or 0.00001 per KB ASAP. After all, the price grew for least a hundredfold since the 0.01 fee was instated.

Having to pay $0.20 per KB is ridiculous. This is more expensive than other internet payment services instead of less!

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June 05, 2011, 04:38:23 PM
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Whoever mandated the .01 transaction fee on a complete whim is a complete and utter moron. We need the fee lowered IMMEDIATELY.
0.3.22 is already out, cut the fee only in half and still enforces the .01 fee. Only 0.3.23 will then have the .005 fee (which is still too high imo.) which is scheduled "soon (TM)".

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Anonymous
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June 05, 2011, 04:39:23 PM
 #6

The fee should really move to 0.001 or 0.00001 per KB ASAP. After all, the price grew for least a hundredfold since the 0.01 fee was instated.

Having to pay $0.20 per KB is ridiculous. This is more expensive than other internet payment services instead of less!

It's not that it's overpriced. It's that the fee isn't subject to market forces. That's the biggest crime.
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June 05, 2011, 04:41:38 PM
 #7

The price is too high.

I'm living in China, I want to sold several my books, it's about 10-30 CNY, and worth only 0.09 BTC-0.27 BTC.

You can see the inconvenience lies in the small numbers, though it's not very obvious.

If the prices keeps going up, the problem is going to be obvious. So I suggest that the team move fast, to make something = 10^-3 BTC.
bitcoins are divisible to 8 decimal places. so i don't see what's wrong. Dealing with zeros is pretty easy. is 0.01 any different from 1.0? assuming they're the same value.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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unk
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June 05, 2011, 04:42:12 PM
 #8

It's not that it's overpriced. It's that the fee isn't subject to market forces. That's the biggest crime.

nobody's forced to use the main client.

(i say this only because what counts as 'market forces' is a very flexible notion.)
Anonymous
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June 05, 2011, 04:43:19 PM
 #9

It's not that it's overpriced. It's that the fee isn't subject to market forces. That's the biggest crime.

nobody's forced to use the main client.

(i say this only because what counts as 'market forces' is a very flexible notion.)
Well, now I feel compelled to start a new client.
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June 05, 2011, 04:43:47 PM
 #10

The fee should really move to 0.001 or 0.00001 per KB ASAP. After all, the price grew for least a hundredfold since the 0.01 fee was instated.

Having to pay $0.20 per KB is ridiculous. This is more expensive than other internet payment services instead of less!

It's not that it's overpriced. It's that the fee isn't subject to market forces. That's the biggest crime.

I agree... we shouldn't have any of this anti-spam rules... it would be based upon what the market can sustain for fees.  The market will quickly set the minimum fee, naturally... Of course... that would be the end of free transactions also... But when were transactions ever 'free'?

If I was better at coding I'd create a 'no-min-fee' client.

One off NP-Hard.
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June 05, 2011, 04:44:24 PM
 #11

It's not that it's overpriced. It's that the fee isn't subject to market forces. That's the biggest crime.

nobody's forced to use the main client.

(i say this only because what counts as 'market forces' is a very flexible notion.)
And nobody is forced to use a particular version of it, either. I guess the holy free market is in favor of a 0.01 fee for now?

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June 05, 2011, 04:46:00 PM
 #12

I'm still trying to understand the fee and when its taken out.  (I'm pretty new still).

For instance I sent my friend 1 bitcoin, and he recieved one bitcoin.  I was debited 1 bitcoin (no fee from what I could tell)

Someone sent me 50 bitcoins, and I recieved 50 bitcoins. (no fee from what I could tell?)

My question is where does the fee come into play? why wasn't I charged a fee.  

As far as the zero's I think people will adapt, we seem to be fine with zeros the other way.  like a 15,000,000,000,000 debt ceiling ect.
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June 05, 2011, 04:49:23 PM
 #13

People unhappy about the default client settings are free
Whoever mandated the .01 transaction fee on a complete whim is a complete and utter moron. We need the fee lowered IMMEDIATELY.
Omg, run for the github repository, make a pull request, if you can't code, pay someone to do it, if you don't feel like it don't use this client.
Either way the people who code the client don't owe you shit.

kseistrup
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June 05, 2011, 04:50:30 PM
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Whoever mandated the .01 transaction fee on a complete whim is a complete and utter moron. We need the fee lowered IMMEDIATELY.

+1

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da2ce7
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June 05, 2011, 04:54:11 PM
 #15

People unhappy about the default client settings are free
Whoever mandated the .01 transaction fee on a complete whim is a complete and utter moron. We need the fee lowered IMMEDIATELY.
Omg, run for the github repository, make a pull request, if you can't code, pay someone to do it, if you don't feel like it don't use this client.
Either way the people who code the client don't owe you shit.

Hmm we need a website called 'what fee will I need'  where it looks at the waiting time and calcualtes the fee that you need to pay to get your transaction validated in reasonable time.  There should be no artificial limits to what people can set their clients fee to.

One off NP-Hard.
Anonymous
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June 05, 2011, 04:55:33 PM
 #16

People unhappy about the default client settings are free
Whoever mandated the .01 transaction fee on a complete whim is a complete and utter moron. We need the fee lowered IMMEDIATELY.
Omg, run for the github repository, make a pull request, if you can't code, pay someone to do it, if you don't feel like it don't use this client.
Either way the people who code the client don't owe you shit.
It's not in my interest entirely! Not at all! If they care about this project, they would certainly act in its best-interest and lower the fee! It's a matter of survival for the whole paradigm at large! One of the main benefits of Bitcoin is absolutely bastardized by this absurd fee: an adjustable fee subject to market forces from independent nodes. Not all of these nodes are ran by specialized coders.
Dude65535
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June 05, 2011, 04:58:12 PM
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I'm still trying to understand the fee and when its taken out.  (I'm pretty new still).

For instance I sent my friend 1 bitcoin, and he recieved one bitcoin.  I was debited 1 bitcoin (no fee from what I could tell)

Someone sent me 50 bitcoins, and I recieved 50 bitcoins. (no fee from what I could tell?)

My question is where does the fee come into play? why wasn't I charged a fee.  

As far as the zero's I think people will adapt, we seem to be fine with zeros the other way.  like a 15,000,000,000,000 debt ceiling ect.

The fee is based primarily on how much a burden it places on the network, not how many coins you send. When there is a fee it is payed by the sender.

If you had received 100 different payments and then tried to send all your coins at once you would most likely have to pay a fee since your transaction combines together many small amounts. That produces a relatively large amount of data for the block chain compared to most transactions.

If you send the same bitcoins back and forth very often or send very small amounts there is a fee involved to prevent spam.

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CoinMan
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June 05, 2011, 05:00:35 PM
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Hmm we need a website called 'what fee will I need'  where it looks at the waiting time and calcualtes the fee that you need to pay to get your transaction validated in reasonable time.  There should be no artificial limits to what people can set their clients fee to.

Great idea!  Although I do personally believe a minimum tx fee of something more like .0001 would be a reasonable limit on the minimum side.

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davout
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June 05, 2011, 05:05:08 PM
 #19

It's not in my interest entirely! Not at all! If they care about this project, they would certainly act in its best-interest and lower the fee! It's a matter of survival for the whole paradigm at large! One of the main benefits of Bitcoin is absolutely bastardized by this absurd fee: an adjustable fee subject to market forces from independent nodes. Not all of these nodes are ran by specialized coders.
I think this is a very bad decision too.
But you just don't call people morons, especially when they give their time for building software you probably use.

TraderTimm
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June 05, 2011, 05:05:34 PM
 #20

I'm still trying to understand the fee and when its taken out.  (I'm pretty new still).

For instance I sent my friend 1 bitcoin, and he recieved one bitcoin.  I was debited 1 bitcoin (no fee from what I could tell)

Someone sent me 50 bitcoins, and I recieved 50 bitcoins. (no fee from what I could tell?)

My question is where does the fee come into play? why wasn't I charged a fee.  

As far as the zero's I think people will adapt, we seem to be fine with zeros the other way.  like a 15,000,000,000,000 debt ceiling ect.

The fee is like a 'priority flag' that tells the nodes that are verifying transactions (miners) they should tend to them immediately, in exchange for the fee if they solve the current block. I do agree the fee should be correlated to a sliding window of average price, but that would require some kind of decentralized exchange that could communicate the price, not a single point-of-failure like Mt. Gox (or any other singular exchange).

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