Do you know what we need? A true Decentralized Movement-Build the currency last.

[hashtag101]

I believe the reason that no altcoin has had any success at all is because we keep using the same failed approach.

What we see now is centralized organizations creating and controling peer-to-peer crypto currencies.

The actual cryptocurrency itself is decentralized in nature, but what we have been doing here is not decentralized at all.

Here is a part of the introduction of the book "The Starfish and the Spider" by:  ORI   BRAFMAN   and   ROD  A. BECKSTROM


We look for hierarchy all around us. Whether we're looking at a Fortune 500 company, an army, or a community, our natural reaction is to ask, "Who's in charge?"

...what happens when there's no one in charge.
It's about what happens when there's no hierarchy. You'd think there would be disorder, even chaos. But in many arenas, a lack of
traditional leadership is giving rise to powerful groups that are turning industry and society upside down.

In short, there's a revolution raging all around us.

No one suspected that Shawn Fanning, sitting in his dorm room at Northeastern University in 1999, was about to change the world. The eighteen-year-old freshman typed at his computer and wondered what would happen if people could share music files with one another. Fanning came up with Napster, an idea that would deliver a crushing blow to the recording industry. But he wasn't at the head of this attack--the entire battle was waged by an army of music-sharing teens, college students, and, eventually, iPod-carrying businessmen.

Half a world away, when Osama bin Laden left Saudi Arabia and traveled to Afghanistan, hardly anyone realized that in just a few years he would become the most wanted man in the world. At the time, his power appeared limited. After all, what could a man operating out of a cave really do?

But al Qaeda became powerful because bin Laden never took a traditional leadership role.

In 1995 a shy engineer posted online listings of upcoming events in the San Francisco Bay Area. Craig Newmark never dreamed that the site he launched would forever alter the newspaper industry.

In 2001 a retired options trader set out to provide free reference materials to kids around the world. He never thought that his efforts would one day allow millions of strangers to use something called a "wiki" to create the biggest information depository of our time.

The blows to the recording industry, the attacks of 9/11, and the success of online classifieds and a collaborative encyclopedia were all driven by the same hidden force. The harder you fight this force, the stronger it gets. The more chaotic it seems, the more resilient it is. The more you try to control it, the more unpredictable it becomes.

Decentralization has been lying dormant for thousands of years. But the advent of the Internet has unleashed this force, knocking down traditional businesses, altering entire industries, affecting how we relate to each other, and influencing world politics.

The absence of structure, leadership, and formal organization, once considered a weakness, has become a major asset. Seemingly chaotic
groups have challenged and defeated established institutions.

The rules of the game have changed.




First and foremost, this will take awhile. So if you are impatient, you may get frustrated.


The idea is to first build the organization and community, then we build the coin itself further down the road. Maybe we can use an already established system and build on top of it. I don't know. It will be up to the community.

Step one is to put together a decentralized movement.

Then find the people with the skills necessary to accomplish all the tasks for the coins success, and we will work together to spread that knowledge across the group, establish norms the participants will follow, and find out how to make each new member a powerful addition to our ability to disrupt the established centralized control over commerce.

This is a very basic explanation of how this will work.

Everyone involved will work for an interest in the finished project.

Only after we have established a resilient, decentralized movement, will we move to creating a platform/coin in whatever shape it takes.

Then we sell the coins to the public/users. Or maybe we wont sell them. I don't know what will happen. It will be up to all of us.

So if you have always wanted to be a part of a coin, and/or a decentralized movement that will change the way "money" is viewed, used, created, and controlled, then reply in this thread.

Maybe you are like I was, and think being active in this forum, and being a part of the cryptocurrency movement is moving towards having a new currency without centralized control.

How is that working out? It never happened, did it?

That's why none of them have gone anywhere meaningful, including Bitcoin.

We thought we were embarking upon this noble journey in which we would finally break free of the established system, but as we have seen it was more of the same.

That is now about to change. Am I the one who will finally pull this off? No.

It will be you.


This will start our long journey to creating a team that will have the ability to make a coin a success finally.


The biggest challenge:

1. Figuring out a way to create a truly decentralized organization


Who is in charge? Everyone.

Great! Now that we have figured that out, how in the world do we create a system that accomplishes this??

This is the billion dollar question!

Surprisingly, there are many examples, and very great resources on the subject already.

[americanpegasus]

[hashtag101]

Ha ha lol!!!

I know what you mean.

But I'm not talking about adding features here, but reversing the process of creation that all cryptos have been using unsuccessfully for years now.

To be fair, Spoetnik said something the other day that got me thinking in this direction.

[hashtag101]

No ideas at all?

We need to stop thinking about what flashy feature we can come up with that gets attention only here in this small forum.

What do people in the general public need that will make them interested in actually using what we create? This I have already thought of.

I could make a coin, pump the idea, and make some money.

What I want is to find a way to set up a truly decentralized organization. That's a lot harder to do. It can't be some top down organization like we have always seen.

Decentralized is a great buzzword, but that's not what's really happening now is it.

We need to start brainstorming about how that would really work and operate.

[TPTB_need_war]

I hope I can speak tersely and frankly without offending anyone, especially not hashtag.

Too much organization kills the flexible creativity needed to experiment and find the magic combination that unlocks a new market.

Nobody has yet put together that magic combination. Some efforts have shown some promise then faded, e.g. Dogecoin.

Great innovation and insight is not built on organization, but instead accretively in the individual trial-and-error experiments. (unheresy.com is my "blog")

So if you want the Bitcoin killer to arrive, you need to either get busy creating it yourself, or if you are not a programmer then keeping your eyes peeled wide open to discern when it has been created.

[DieJohnny]

Already tried:

Dogecoin, community didn't work
Ethereum, technology doesn't work
Litecoin, mimicing might work
huntercoin, gaming doesnt work
monero, privacy doesn't work
dash, hype doesn't work


there is one requirement that you must have to start a coin, you must have a distributed network of miners that does not go down in hashrate but always increases. solve that first....

[BitcoinCounty]

Already tried:

Dogecoin, community didn't work
Ethereum, technology doesn't work
Litecoin, mimicing might work
huntercoin, gaming doesnt work
monero, privacy doesn't work
dash, hype doesn't work


there is one requirement that you must have to start a coin, you must have a distributed network of miners that does not go down in hashrate but always increases. solve that first....

I think most of the above mentioned coins are working well. Most of them have distributed network of miners.

[TPTB_need_war]

Same could apply to monero, which you so gracefully support.

His post wasn't necessarily arguing against adding another standard. I think he was pointing out that what the OP was advocating, had already been tried, i.e. that grand unification (nirvana) rarely happens.

[hashtag101]

Same could apply to monero, which you so gracefully support.

His post wasn't necessarily arguing against adding another standard. I think he was pointing out that what the OP was advocating, had already been tried, i.e. that grand unification (nirvana) rarely happens.

I'm trying to get the great minds to first start a conversation that its goal is to create an organization that is decentralized, that doesn't stifle ideas, and can make progress and run successful without centralization.

That is the innovation I'm attempting to get us to create.

[hashtag101]

I'm trying to get the great minds to first start a conversation that its goal is to create an organization that is decentralized, that doesn't stifle ideas, and can make progress and run successful without centralization.

That is the innovation I'm attempting to get us to create.

The issue is that you're making the assumption that the "great minds" are sitting on the sideline at the moment or that they're going to drop the project they've already invested countless hours and/or money into. Most of the talent in the field is currently focused on bitcoin, and the majority of the remainder is probably spread between five or ten other projects. Do you you really think you're going to woo people away from what they're already attached to with vague promises of "doing it right this time"?

I deleted this comment for obvious reasons, but quoted it as an example of what goofy comments I will just delete.

I hate censorship, but it is not an attempt to add to the conversation whatsoever.

Others have been off topic, but Id rather ignore them as long as possible.

The goal is to delete as little as possible.



It was just too much off topic and non-constructive post in this thread.

[TPTB_need_war]

I deleted this comment for obvious reasons, but quoted it as an example of what goofy comments I will just delete.

Huh  

That was a very astute comment. He is telling you exactly how it is. I wouldn't dare stop what I am working on to come work on some fantasy as what you've described in the OP.

I understand that you feel if we can just get together we can do much better. But this just shows how little experience you have. There are already organized efforts that have many developers contributing to open source such as Monero.

Trust me the challenge is more about knowing what to code, not only having the right devs to code. That creative knowledge will come from an unexpected direction. Overly organized (and politicized) attempts tend to suppress creativity and the decentralization you propose is the antithesis of organization (thus it appears you aren't really clear on what you are asking for). We already have decentralized development in the form of many altcoins. I know you want everyone to team up, but that isn't decentralization.

Any way, none of us has the free time to explain this to you. I don't mean to get on your bad side. But I do hope you will listen to the wise advice you've been given.

P.S. I didn't notice you had created a moderated thread for this. I would never have posted. Moderated thread maybe for your own altcoin to deal with trolls, but on a subject matter like this then moderated thread is really anal. As you just proved by deleting an astute post that nearly all experts would agree with.

[EvilDave]

Here's the manual of how to create/kickstart/run a decentralised organisation, and why decentralised orgs have advantages over more traditional structures:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Starfish_and_the_Spider
http://www.starfishandspider.com/

Check out the company culture of W.L.Gore:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._L._Gore_and_Associates#Culture

[hashtag101]

I deleted this comment for obvious reasons, but quoted it as an example of what goofy comments I will just delete.

Huh  

That was a very astute comment. He is telling you exactly how it is. I wouldn't dare stop what I am working on to come work on some fantasy as what you've described in the OP.

I understand that you feel if we can just get together we can do much better. But this just shows how little experience you have. There are already organized efforts that have many developers contributing to open source such as Monero.

Trust me the challenge is more about knowing what to code, not only having the right devs to code. That creative knowledge will come from an unexpected direction. Overly organized (and politicized) attempts tend to suppress creativity.

Any way, none of us has the free time to explain this to you. I don't mean to get on your bad side. But I do hope you will listen to the wise advice you've been given.

You are not on my bad side. I don't get mad or take offense very easily. I would like to hear from you if its saying good things about me, my ideas, or not. As long as I don't think you're saying those things just to be an ass. Which I don't see you doing.

I took the comment in context with his other comments in the thread, and seen it as him just trying to be a dick. Maybe I was wrong, but I still dont think so as of now.

It seems I am having a hard time getting even you to understand what I'm talking about here. I will take the blame on that.

You see, I am not at this point trying to find someone to code for this project at this point.

It is true that many of the great minds here do code. I am aware that those in this group focus most of their energies doing just that. Not to say they don't do other things, such as you doing research on good names for your project, or interpretation of laws for example.

I believe there are also great minds that don't code. We need them, too.

Also, you are correct that organization can stifle creativity and innovation. The key word here is "can". And yes, most of the time it does.

Sure, right now it is a fantasy to think we can change that. But make no mistake, that is the innovation I am looking to explore here.

I should have been much more clear as to what I am looking for here.

I'm not trying to get all of you to get together, as one, and then code the ultimate coin, platform, or blockchain, etc.

I am looking to first and foremost create something that has eluded all of us.

The fantasy is finding a way to create a truly decentralized organization. The greatest "on chain" platform ever created, will still need an "off chain" organization running things on the front end and behind the scenes.

So far, we've seen even the most impressive decentralized platforms being controlled in a centralized manner.

It is my opinion that we can, by starting a serious dialogue here, improve upon what we have seen so far.

I think there are many reasons that we haven't seen a platform reach mass adoption. I believe if we take this next step, and find a way to bring the spirit of decentralization we have witnessed come about from the concept of the public ledger, and try to find ways to make an organization surrounding the technology more decentralized than we have so far, we will take that next big step that has been eluding thus far.

If you, and others have too much on your plate currently to offer your intellect towards this cause I understand.

You would be a great asset if you could though, as you know this is a very lofty goal, but I have faith we can evolve further.

[hashtag101]

Here's the manual of how to create/kickstart/run a decentralised organisation, and why decentralised orgs have advantages over more traditional structures:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Starfish_and_the_Spider
http://www.starfishandspider.com/

Check out the company culture of W.L.Gore:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._L._Gore_and_Associates#Culture

Thank you very much!!

I will read this material, as Im sure it will contain information that can help us!!

[worhiper_-_]

Same could apply to monero, which you so gracefully support.

His post wasn't necessarily arguing against adding another standard. I think he was pointing out that what the OP was advocating, had already been tried, i.e. that grand unification (nirvana) rarely happens.

One does not simply defend americanpegasus, for he is the reason us bitcoiners get mocked all over the internet.

[tss]

you can do this in a few weeks.  without hyping and marketing requirements probably around 3 days.  offer a locked in code base without allowing modifications that are not part of fixing security issues and problems.  please make/offer a fair distribution.  you cant possibly pull off any ipo or insta ninja mine scam.  i wish you luck. i look forward to your coin and whether you followed the fairness guidelines.

[hashtag101]

Who understands what I'm trying to accomplish?

I got TPTB thinking I'm naive, or at least he doesn't think I really understand just how difficult it is to make meaningful progress in anything with so many people involved. His assessment is perfectly understandable because he doesn't know me, and I am proposing something that makes it sound like I am inexperienced at first glance. He has a point. It's true, working alone, or in limited groups makes it much easier to make meaningful progress when you are trying to come up with ideas, test theories, execute a plan, and track results. For a long time I always joked by saying the old adage with my spin, "to many egos in the kitchen". So I get it. Add in politics and personal hidden alternative agendas, plus many other factors too many to count, and it's easy to see why the traditional method of central control has been more effective and preferred for so long.

I have worked in organizations and had literally hundreds of employees working under my leadership, with Supervisors who had Sales Trainers helping them train and manage the crew.

Sure, I have wanted to pull my hair out when dealing with all the different personalities, especially when in a meeting when everyone thinks their idea or plan is the right way to proceed. So many times I said thanks for all your input and kicked myself for asking. But I was always willing to do it again, and deal with the headache, because it did make me better for doing it.

Believe me, I fully understand the outright headache and clusterfuck that can cause meaningful progress to fly right out the window many times as well.

Again, not knowing me I can see that people could think I just don't get it.

I do.

I know full well what I am proposing is difficult. I consider myself a pretty smart guy, and have extensive experience in classic centralized management we are all so used to.

But being a part of the cryptocurrency movement for years now, and seeing the genius of the public ledger, and the attention it has received in many circles all over the world, I now believe decentralization is the future.


Even in management of organizations


I'm not sure how exactly it will end up coming to pass, but I believe the next true innovation in cryptocurrency will be in a decentralized organization being behind it.

To me this is the logical next step, and I intend to explore it with like minded individuals.

Our organization needs top gun guys that can code. But this is only 1 piece of the organization. We need many other professionals as well. Think of all the departments and positions needed in a successful company. We need all those people, too.

Tall order. No doubt. But we will build it.
Once it is built, we will have the capability to get our message out to the general public.

What is our message? I have some ideas. Together we will refine them in time.

But first things first

Together we will work out how this decentralized organization will work, and then, and only then, we will move on to the task of actually creating a coin/platform that will rise to challenge that has yet to be realized.


Mass adoption

[Zer0Sum]

Who understands what I'm trying to accomplish?

I got TPTB thinking I'm naive, or at least he doesn't think I really understand just how difficult it is to make meaningful progress in anything with so many people involved. His assessment is perfectly understandable because he doesn't know me, and I am proposing something that makes it sound like I am inexperienced at first glance. He has a point. It's true, working alone, or in limited groups makes it much easier to make meaningful progress when you are trying to come up with ideas, test theories, execute a plan, and track results. For a long time I always joked by saying the old adage with my spin, "to many egos in the kitchen". So I get it. Add in politics and personal hidden alternative agendas, plus many other factors too many to count, and it's easy to see why the traditional method of central control has been more effective and preferred for so long.

I have worked in organizations and had literally hundreds of employees working under my leadership, with Supervisors who had Sales Trainers helping them train and manage the crew.

Sure, I have wanted to pull my hair out when dealing with all the different personalities, especially when in a meeting when everyone thinks their idea or plan is the right way to proceed. So many times I said thanks for all your input and kicked myself for asking. But I was always willing to do it again, and deal with the headache, because it did make me better for doing it.

Believe me, I fully understand the outright headache and clusterfuck that can cause meaningful progress to fly right out the window many times as well.

Again, not knowing me I can see that people could think I just don't get it.

I do.

I know full well what I am proposing is difficult. I consider myself a pretty smart guy, and have extensive experience in classic centralized management we are all so used to.

But being a part of the cryptocurrency movement for years now, and seeing the genius of the public ledger, and the attention it has received in many circles all over the world, I now believe decentralization is the future.


Even in management of organizations


I'm not sure how exactly it will end up coming to pass, but I believe the next true innovation in cryptocurrency will be in a decentralized organization being behind it.

To me this is the logical next step, and I intend to explore it with like minded individuals.

Our organization needs top gun guys that can code. But this is only 1 piece of the organization. We need many other professionals as well. Think of all the departments and positions needed in a successful company. We need all those people, too.

Tall order. No doubt. But we will build it.
Once it is built, we will have the capability to get our message out to the general public.

What is our message? I have some ideas. Together we will refine them in time.

But first things first

Together we will work out how this decentralized organization will work, and then, and only then, we will move on to the task of actually creating a coin/platform that will rise to challenge that has yet to be realized.


Mass adoption

You have studied this tiny niche and gotten it exactly backwards.

The "blockchain" niche is being taken over on the corporate level...
By well-capitalized, well-led teams of experienced elite engineers and marketing experts (people who do not work for free).

Secretive cliques of anon devs are almost always scammers...
Or lack the competence/organization to target a market and develop a revenue stream.

NXT is the living embodiment of the above truism...
Despite Herculean efforts by core Devs that are paid a mere pittance...
Slick carpetbaggers like jl777 have SUCKED NXT DRY...
And made off with all the fucking money while delivering nothing usable.

So, no, any decentralized approach will never build anything "great" (it's a juvenile fantasy)...
Please read Steve Jobs' biography (have you ever read even one a biography of a historic business leader?)
 

[BitcoinNational]

First and foremost, this will take awhile. So if you are impatient, this isn't for you.

agree.

My idea is to first build the organization and community, then build the coin itself.

Why not build the coin first?  so i'll shill my suggestion TALK ... it was already airdropped to BCT members ... it works [it mostly works] ... it has gone thru the pump and dump cycle ... and now is worth so little it's not worth dumping any more ... gradeAAA shitte coin!

Step one is to put together the management team. Then find the people with the skills necessary to accomplish all the tasks for the coins success.

Here's the beautifeel part ... no need for a 'management team'  ... see the above ... coin is made and distributed ... the network is still up even got a crappy block explorer and a market listing.  Nothing left to manage.  Except getting more people staking so the network gets more healthy.

Everyone involved will work for an interest in the finished project.

Got a formula for that?  I am thinking salary paid in TALK.  What we making?  Well the coin you alls envision in this thread. 

When more and more people see that we have not only a coin, but also all the necessary players involved to move the coin towards mass adoption, then our coin will have value.

Well the talent is here already in the greater community that is BCT.  It is just a question of networking it all together into a functional team.

Then we sell the coins to the public/users.

don't be impatient now

So if you have always wanted to be a part of a coin, and have a skill that would be valuable to a coins success, reply in this thread.

that be are you a dev then please work for free or TALK ... which is the same, almost.

The biggest challenge: the billion dollar question!!
1. Figuring out a way to create a truly decentralized organization.

actually the ETH and the forks (like EXP) will streamline management and codifying how an organization runs ... so decentralized in that yes everyone is in charge (if they choose to be) but the platform regulates via a set of rules ... so everyone can have influence what are the rules and re-write the rules at will.

the tech is still beta stage but likely already usable for DAO creation.

[hashtag101]

Who understands what I'm trying to accomplish?

I got TPTB thinking I'm naive, or at least he doesn't think I really understand just how difficult it is to make meaningful progress in anything with so many people involved. His assessment is perfectly understandable because he doesn't know me, and I am proposing something that makes it sound like I am inexperienced at first glance. He has a point. It's true, working alone, or in limited groups makes it much easier to make meaningful progress when you are trying to come up with ideas, test theories, execute a plan, and track results. For a long time I always joked by saying the old adage with my spin, "to many egos in the kitchen". So I get it. Add in politics and personal hidden alternative agendas, plus many other factors too many to count, and it's easy to see why the traditional method of central control has been more effective and preferred for so long.

I have worked in organizations and had literally hundreds of employees working under my leadership, with Supervisors who had Sales Trainers helping them train and manage the crew.

Sure, I have wanted to pull my hair out when dealing with all the different personalities, especially when in a meeting when everyone thinks their idea or plan is the right way to proceed. So many times I said thanks for all your input and kicked myself for asking. But I was always willing to do it again, and deal with the headache, because it did make me better for doing it.

Believe me, I fully understand the outright headache and clusterfuck that can cause meaningful progress to fly right out the window many times as well.

Again, not knowing me I can see that people could think I just don't get it.

I do.

I know full well what I am proposing is difficult. I consider myself a pretty smart guy, and have extensive experience in classic centralized management we are all so used to.

But being a part of the cryptocurrency movement for years now, and seeing the genius of the public ledger, and the attention it has received in many circles all over the world, I now believe decentralization is the future.


Even in management of organizations


I'm not sure how exactly it will end up coming to pass, but I believe the next true innovation in cryptocurrency will be in a decentralized organization being behind it.

To me this is the logical next step, and I intend to explore it with like minded individuals.

Our organization needs top gun guys that can code. But this is only 1 piece of the organization. We need many other professionals as well. Think of all the departments and positions needed in a successful company. We need all those people, too.

Tall order. No doubt. But we will build it.
Once it is built, we will have the capability to get our message out to the general public.

What is our message? I have some ideas. Together we will refine them in time.

But first things first

Together we will work out how this decentralized organization will work, and then, and only then, we will move on to the task of actually creating a coin/platform that will rise to challenge that has yet to be realized.


Mass adoption

You have studied this tiny niche and gotten it exactly backwards.

The "blockchain" niche is being taken over on the corporate level...
By well-capitalized, well-led teams of experienced elite engineers and marketing experts (people who do not work for free).

Secretive cliques of anon devs are almost always scammers...
Or lack the competence/organization to target a market and develop a revenue stream.

NXT is the living embodiment of the above truism...
Despite Herculean efforts by core Devs that are paid a mere pittance...
Slick carpetbaggers like jl777 have SUCKED NXT DRY...
And made off with all the fucking money while delivering nothing usable.

So, no, any decentralized approach will never build anything "great" (it's a juvenile fantasy)...
Please read Steve Jobs' biography (have you ever read even one a biography of a historic business leader?)
 

Really?

Conrad Hilton was my favorite.

Decentralization is the future.

Jl777 is Nxt downfall? Interesting.

I understand the corporate world has taken interest. Chances are it will be a grassroots decentralized movement that will be successful.

You're not helping here. I do think you really believe the stuff you just wrote, and I think many would agree with you.

I'm not being mean, but we are on two different planets.