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Author Topic: Altcoins dead?  (Read 6157 times)
ilovealtcoins
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November 16, 2015, 10:02:12 PM
 #101

Sure, I mean, Bitcoin nowadays is used mostly as a commodity. But that isn't through a fault of design, it was more a fault of consumers. When Bitcoin trading became big business, everyone jumped on the bandwagon and the price shot up, thus getting more people in on the bandwagon. It's a self serving business model, and I find it very disheartening. I would actually be a lot happier if Bitcoin was more or less on par with the dollar. Then it would be more viable as a currency because, as you said, who wants to buy 1 BTC for $1000, unless you plan to make a profit off of it.

The original vision for bitcoin was an admirable one, a currency free from government control. One that couldn't be shut down without shutting down the internet itself. The mindset changed somewhere though, when trading became very profitable, when mining became even more profitable.

You're right when you say that a currency is mostly defined by how much, and how the public adopts it. But just because a lot of people trade Bitcoin as a commodity, doesn't mean it isn't a currency. See the thing about a commodity is that it serves some need or purpose, has some kind of value that can be traded for other things of value. Bitcoin, technically, has no value. It serves no greater purpose than to exist. Sure the ideology behind it and the tech behind is, indeed valuable, but the Bitcoin itself isn't. It's the same as fiat, it's technically worthless, but we all agree it has worth because, why not? Also, another point, commodities can be used as currency. Look at gold for instance, before we had a "gold backed" currency, we literally used gold as a currency, it was still a commodity, but it was also a currency.

And, again, you're right when you say that Bitcoin has a lot of limitations that would limit it's ability to become a mainstream "currency" but just because it has limitations, doesn't mean that it ISN'T a currency.

I have been like you guy all along.. a fan of BTC
I google'd that set of keywords because i was curious why people say that.. not because i thought that myself.
He convinced me.. why ?
Because he made some good points about how Bitcoin was engineered to function (and the related limitations)
I am not trying to be a Troll and i am not saying i give up on Bitcoin either.



Hey man, I don't think you're a troll , I think you're just giving your honest opinion as you see fit, and you do actually make some good points. I just happen to disagree with that opinion, which is why I'm still posting here, arguing my stance lol

But to say that it's a Ponzi/Pyramid scheme is a stretch, I could see how people could think of it as a commodity or stock, but as a fraudulent business, I just don't see it personally. 

I love dem altcoins
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November 16, 2015, 11:48:37 PM
 #102

You still didn't get my point or the point of the Washintong Post guy
and i think it's because your clouded with optimism about Bitcoin..
It's more useful to try and see things as they are rather than pushing an optimistic view.

i will repeat it yet again..
no one said it's a ponzi or pyramid scheme.
what has been said is......

it is "more like" one when taking on an objective, analytical and functional perspective.
..in comparison to a traditional currency.

And oh i am well aware of the history of gold and the emergence of the Federal reserve after Gold was dropped.
and i say isn't the point of BTC about the future of currency ?
So analogies saying it's like how we had things 150 years ago is silly no ?
Can you say going in reverse ?

I don't see it as an opinion type of thing.
I see it as an engineering thing.
Look at what -is-
Not how you want to interpret things.

Bitcoin and Altcoins are not used as currencies.
They are used as digital commodities that far more resemble a digital type of pyramid / ponzi.

And i doubt many of you out there admitting your 20 years old etc have a clue about the history of Pyramid schemes.
I recall the Water Filter pyramid schemes that went around in the 80's ..because i was there.
I am not a wide eyed wet behind the ears kid who is brain washed by Bitcoin bag holder propaganda. LOL
So ?
many of you need to actually get off your ass and go and learn what a ponzi or pyramid scheme is
and that is faaaaar more than Google'ing the definition at Wikipedia.
Try reading testimony from people burned by them and how they actually work out in the wild.
..then come and talk.

The first thing Altcoin guys did here is start propping up worthless clone coins with adding value services schemes.
That was the very fist bullshit gimmick of sorts.. we all laughed about it and called them on it too !

So tacking on a market that no one is or ever will use is a means to make it -seem- like XYZ coin has some use.
Oldest Altcoin dev (marketing team) tactic in the book.
And i see the same thing with Bitcoin itself.
0.01% of users care if it ends up being used as a currency.
The rest care if they make money off it.. it's farce ..a facade.
Just like Altcoins.

If you guys actually cared like you claim you wouldn't even put your new coin on an exchange.
The trade value would be of no importance to the bigger picture.. at least in the first years.

The disconnect with reality all around crypto is wide spread.
You all wish things were different so you try to say they are.

I'd say Bitcoin is not being used for many reasons the biggest being is they are too expensive to buy.
Why is that ?
IF any of you think there is hoards of people coming later to buy any coin for $300 a pop your insane !
Your high on crack LOL
It's never going to happen.. wake the fuck up !

The only thing that would cause a large surge in adoption (or the perception of adoption)
Is if it got added to the US stock exchange with regulations.
And that would solidify the death of it as ever ending up being a currency.
No crypto coin is stable enough to be used as currency value wise. (problem = wild swings in value)
That would do nothing to help get the general public to drop fiat and use BTC instead (or an altcoin)

NOTE: That would make BTC shoot up in value and in turn make it less likely Grandma is buying some.
And there for simply push the user base of BTC to be even more just for traders.

I am wasting my time because no matter what many of you refuse to hear the truth.

The housing market crash people in the financial world called that a Ponzi scheme.
Because of how it actually worked.. derivatives.
And the parallel is identical to this crap.

The bundled derivative housing stocks were hollow and worthless and bared no fruit.
They were / are exactly like a useless digital token we see in Crypto.

There is no "one day"  Roll Eyes

FUD first & ask questions later™
ilovealtcoins
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November 17, 2015, 12:09:07 AM
 #103

Okay, I'll admit that I am very lacking when it comes to financials and such. I actually had to do quite a bit of research on these kinds of topics in order to understand some of the deeper points you have made.

But I'm curious, alright, in Your own words please explain why you think Bitcoin is a Ponzi/Pyramid scheme. (which, lets be honest here, are basically two sides of the same coin)

And I am looking at it from an objective lens, Bitcoin just doesn't fit the mold of a Ponzi scheme. And yes, I have done research into Ponzi schemes, a lot of research, in fact. Ironically enough, while financials themselves don't interest me all that much, financial crimes interest me a lot.

I will concede that it is unlikely Bitcoin will ever find wide adoption as a currency, because Bitcoin has become too renowned for it's trading and volatility. I  just like the idea of Bitcoin, I think it's cool. I personally wouldn't care if Bitcoin ended up hitting $0.01 because I'm in it for the tech. I know that I'm in the minority here, and I know basically 99% of people would leave if that were to ever happen, but hey, I don't give a flying fuck.

I haven't been here long enough to see the earlier alts, but I got here around the time the Altcoin boom started happening, so I know just how worthless a lot of those altcoins were. Some were cool, had interesting innovations, others were bitcoin with a coat of paint. Those were more akin to Pump-And-Dump schemes, not Ponzis (again, very similar in nature) but schemes none-the-less.

And you are, indeed, right when you say that the biggest hurdle for Bitcoin, as a currency, is the price. Who wants to spend $300 on a Bitcoin (unless you're a trader), and like I said, I think dollar parity would be a lot better than what we currently have.

I am listening, and I agree with a lot of your points, like Bitcoin probably not gaining widespread use as a currency. But I still don't see it as a Ponzi scheme, because, if it were, then the Stock market and Commodity market would also be Ponzi schemes... probably... like I said, I don't know much about these things.

I love dem altcoins
Spoetnik
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November 17, 2015, 05:37:23 AM
 #104

If you all are going to listen to fucktards like Max Keiser yammer on saying shit like..
"You can think of StartCOIN as the quantitative easing that the people never had"
I suggest you fuckers get off your ass and get educated.. or your blind lemmings.
http://www.simondixon.org/forget-open-market-operations-we-now-have-coin-market-operation-start_coin/2014/08/06/

get this documentary that explains what that is..
"Money for Nothing Inside the Federal Reserve Jim Bruce 2013"
https://thepiratebay.mn/torrent/9325697/Money_for_Nothing_Inside_the_Federal_Reserve_%282013%29

FUD first & ask questions later™
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