Altcoins dead?

[croato]

In my opinion, problem is constant flooding altcoin scene with huge amount of shitcoins and scamcoins. Altcoins now pop up on daily basis and ppl has lost lot of money and confidence. Every scammer/idiot/kid can hire developer and make his shitcoin. PPL get burned and never get back so there is more and more coins and less and less money in them every day so figure it out.

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[Spoetnik]

i hear investors say moon



you say it's not dead guys but how often do people post here ?

[WorldCoiner]

I wrote about this topic today in my Altcoinblog (in German, sorry)
Die Gründe für den schwachen Altcoinmarkt:
https://altcoinspekulant.wordpress.com/2015/11/13/die-gruende-fuer-den-schwachen-altcoinmarkt/

[Spoetnik]

What do you think about dogecoin
Will dead or still alive
The prize this coin 39 satoshi,. Someday will drop to 20 satoshi or dead

the cooch is dried up son !

[Surge_PR]

Dont think altcoins will ever be dead..

[Spoetnik]

Dont think altcoins will ever be dead..

I don't even know what to say anymore.. all you guys out there are deceitful, delusional & brain damaged and in denial.

I think unicorns and lizard people have taken over with the Illuminati and they run the world.
It's fact i just said so.

EDIT:
The only reason Bitcoin exists anymore is because of RansomWare makers and related bs losers.
If they are stopped Bitcoin will dry up and die and so will Altcoins.

Ransomware have amassed more than $325 million USD from victims.

They are the life blood of crypto.
You little noob's out there spend 50 bucks on shit coins and virus makers buy 1 million cash worth.
You noob' bullshit altcoin existence hinges on the backs of criminals.

[Monnt]

Altcoins are just useless.... The owners just want publicity and money. There  is no point of having them around.

[axxo]

Altcoins are just useless.... The owners just want publicity and money. There  is no point of having them around.

So it would be better for you not to post on any altcoin discussion thread in the future you're just wasting your time.

[ilovealtcoins]

Dont think altcoins will ever be dead..

I don't even know what to say anymore.. all you guys out there are deceitful, delusional & brain damaged and in denial.

I think unicorns and lizard people have taken over with the Illuminati and they run the world.
It's fact i just said so.

EDIT:
The only reason Bitcoin exists anymore is because of RansomWare makers and related bs losers.
If they are stopped Bitcoin will dry up and die and so will Altcoins.

Ransomware have amassed more than $325 million USD from victims.

They are the life blood of crypto.
You little noob's out there spend 50 bucks on shit coins and virus makers buy 1 million cash worth.
You noob' bullshit altcoin existence hinges on the backs of criminals.

Are you saying the world isn't run by lizard people?

Well there goes my entire world view.


But in all seriousness, I agree that the business aspect of Altcoins is virtually dead, the "intellectual" aspect, however probably won't die, I myself am currently experimenting with altcoins on my own local network.

And, while yes ransomeware is a huge part of the crypto world, I don't believe that that is the sole reason bitcoin still "exists." It might be the reason it never becomes "mainstream" (that and websites like Silkroad) but to say there isn't a dedicated community (and big business) behind bitcoin is just plain wrong.

[Spoetnik]

Plenty of us care about the idea and *not just the money.. that ain't the point though.
We have been over shadowed and we let the greedy take over (or maybe become them)
The result is a ghost town..

Bickering over whether it's actually read dead or not doesn't matter.. close enough.
I doubt things will change in a positive and meaningful way i have said lots unless we get regulations.
It's what stops us from destroying ourselves..

The pattern through out history has shown when ever we can ruin things by given too much trust we do.
We're like snakes that eat their own tales.
It's always someone else in Crypto that is the problem.
But it couldn't have gotten this bad unless we were all responsible.

We were all a part of a giant failed social experiment in greed..
What happened is we all just figured it would be ok if we supported shiity coins quietly when no one was looking.
This made coin cloning possible and led to many thousands of them being made.
Which in turn triggered the wave of momentum that got us here.

The only question to me is did these guys early on that would hang out on Cryptsy chat
did they really believe that it when they told me time after time that massive amounts of clone coins will do no harm ?
Yeah they actually said that and they were led by their leader.. BitJohn.
Who was always at the for front of making excuses for them all.. i argued with him and others about when this was
just catching on then when it was super popular then after when it was dead.

I head the same crap.. No it won't dilute the markets and cause price crashing..
Yes it brings in new users etc etc
All of it a crock of shit.

Funny is these same guy just change their tune and NOW go with teh crowd and claim to bea against them
But they were not before.

Spoetnik you have a reputation of being a Troll.
Actually i have a reputation of arguing with guys who run exchanges and support shit coins.

I called it.. look around.
And don't blame me either..
For example i left a scathing comment on the Doge coin ANN early on saying i was sickened and disgusted by ALL of youhere.
No one agreed with me.
You all made it the biggest altcoin.. regardless of my bitching and moaning.
So a coin can success (if you want to call it that) no matter how much i trash on it.

I'll wrap it up buy just saying this is just another trend that is going on.
I said when it crashes you will all play the i hate shit coins guy (because money is getting scarce)
But once money flows back in hard.. scammy shit coin clones will explode in popularity all over again.
There has been no lesson learned here, that is an illusion by people who push Pyramid / Ponzi Schemes.

Sit there and play innocent little crypto supporter but bear in mind with no regulations in place
the evil one's (everyone but me) are enabled to wreck things.

Let's just go back to pretending everything is fine and keep trading coins made by anon shady characters
..on Exchanges that require your ID and a bank statement and power bill and SIN card etc etc.
Isn't it cute you have to show your ID to sell an Anonymous Crypto Coin ?

I also never proclaimed my innocence just that i was no near as bad as the majority.

edit: couple spelling mistakes

[ilovealtcoins]

Plenty of us care about the idea and just the money.. that ain't the point though.
We have been over shadowed and we let the greedy take over (or maybe become them)
The result is a ghost town..

Unfortunately this is quite true... I've only been back to the whole Bitcoin/altcoin scene a few weeks now and there does seem to be quite a lot less discussion going on here than there used to be.

The pattern through out history has shown when ever we can ruin things by given too much trust we do.
We're like snakes that eat their own tales.
It's always someone else in Crypto that is the problem.
But it couldn't have gotten this bad unless we were all responsible.

Oh I have no doubt that I was more than partially responsible for whatever tragedy might happen to befall Altcoins, whether that be total "block death" or simply "price death" either way, I'll still wear the moniker ILoveAltcoins because, well, I do. I love tech stuff and I love playing with code. Bitcoin's just happens to be awesome for that kind of stuff.

Regulations though... i don't know. Kind of defeats the purpose of Bitcoin, no?

The only question to me is did these guys early on that would hang out on Cryptsy chat
did they really believe that it when they told me time after time that massive amounts of clone coins will do no harm ?
Yeah they actually said that and they were led by their leader.. BitJohn.
Who was always at the for front of making excuses for them all.. i argued with him and others about when this was
just catching on then when it was super popular then after when it was dead.

Well that's just a plain stupid thing for them to say. Obviously it would have lead to market saturation. I could have told you that back in 2013 when I first made my account that that is where we were headed.

Spoetnik you have a reputation of being a Troll.
Actually i have a reputation of arguing with guys who run exchanges and support shit coins.

I don't think you're a troll. Sure you've said some trollish things on this thread, but I've never seen a troll display logic and reason, which you have done numerous times during our discussion about Altcoins on this thread, I think you're a pretty okay guy (Or girl, how should I know?  )

...
The rest

Yes, you're right, we're probably going to cycle through Alt explosions every 2-4 years, because that's generally how it works in any market without regulation. The problem is that you cannot introduce regulation into a project that was intended to have little to no regulation at all.

Also, I never claimed I was innocent, and never did I claim to support clonecoins (Sure, I used to, I also get paid to make them for people) I support personal currencies that people my release to the outside world for whatever reason, I don't support the use of people using various Altcoins to make a profit either. However I do support innovation, it's fun, it's cool, it's exciting. Which is why I like altcoins, and why i think the community won't die.

[eli113]

i am a simple person with some logic i hope...

When it is about profit all things are same enough
If you connect death of any Altcoin with just equity with the US$ or Euro then you are missing something i feel

i personally think value and life of any Altcoin out there is simple to realize
Are there unique services offered for AnyCoin ? then that coin cant die no matter what equity has

Just my 34 satoshis here ,have a nice day

[Spoetnik]

@iLoveAltcoins.

First off thanks for side stepping my spelling mistakes LOL
I noticed the first sentence i wrote was messed up *as usual ahhaha

And i don't want to be right.. it would have been nice if all this kept expanding (but it didn't)
What we got was a lot of stories of i got hacked.. whether it was coins claiming that or Exchanges.

And the consensus by the majority on Cryptsy's Troll box way back day after day was cloning will have no negative impact.
It would just blow my mind how these guys could say that.
Hell i even seen a Coindesk story saying that.. saying the more the better.
LOL uuuhmm no  

I want to ask you guys.. Did Satoshi go on the record claiming he was against regulation some how ?
And you guys do realize that regulations exist to protect you right ? and protect the scene too !
All you have to is look at the housing market crash and the recession it triggered.
It was caused by Greenspan refusing to put some simple regulations in.. no matter how hard he was warned ahead of time.
He is regarded as Fed reserve Einstein.. a god.. cover of lots of magazines.. a hero.

he's an idiot and he is personally responsible for wrecking the whole worlds economy.
he insisted that we would not let things get bad and we would police ourselves..
He gave us a free market.

Reality check kids.. Free Markets are bad.

All they do is make the rich richer.

Bernanke's current fixes are a band-aid that is peeling off.
I seen a guy on the news who said he laughed and made over 1.5 BILLION dollars profit.
yes that is right.. i said "Billion"
It was easy he said.. Bernanke again announced bail outs basically.
Bernanke pledged that the US fed reserve would hand cash out to keep the system afloat.
So financial firms laughed their ass off crashed the market and collected the free govt money.
Literally laughing to the bank then on CNN in an interview !

Kids with 2 bitcoin love the anon hackers rebel no rules bad ass bullshit.
but guys who make 1.5 billion dollars profit REALLY like the lack of regulations..

it's not much different between the two scenes.
you guys chant no laws.. i want a Free Market.
Well you enable the super rich to abuse the poor.. and hoard 95% of the worlds money.
They make their own rules and you can never win.. poor guys stay poor and rich get richer.
And you guys let 'em !

You *could even the playing field by putting regulations in place but you don't want that for some odd reason.
I always think of Berni Madoff and Martha Stewart.
A ponzi scheme'er and an insider trader.
Can you guys fathom how many guys in Crypto would be behind bars if we had similar laws ?
I just said..
You *could even the playing field by putting regulations in place but you don't want that for some odd reason.
I think i see why now LOL

[ilovealtcoins]

@iLoveAltcoins.

First off thanks for side stepping my spelling mistakes LOL
I noticed the first sentence i wrote was messed up *as usual ahhaha

And i don't want to be right.. it would have been nice if all this kept expanding (but it didn't)
What we got was a lot of stories of i got hacked.. whether it was coins claiming that or Exchanges.

Heh, no problem. Happens to the best of us

And yeah, stuff can't expand exponentially on Earth (specifically talking about business here) because the population of Earth isn't growing exponentially, which is why market saturation is a such a bad thing for business people.

I want to ask you guys.. Did Satoshi go on the record claiming he was against regulation some how ?
And you guys do realize that regulations exist to protect you right ? and protect the scene too !
All you have to is look at the housing market crash and the recession it triggered.
It was caused by Greenspan refusing to put some simple regulations in.. no matter how hard he was warned ahead of time.
He is regarded as Fed reserve Einstein.. a god.. cover of lots of magazines.. a hero.

While I don't know much about the housing crisis (it's a little out of my scope) I think I can answer the first question there.

I don't think he was specifically against regulations, per se, what he was against was governmental oversight coming in and exploiting the currency system. Too much regulation and government oversight can be a serious issue. Just look at the Cyprus incident that happened a few years back, they literally stole money from their citizens bank accounts. That's the kind of stuff that Satoshi was against... at least, as far as I know.

Reality check kids.. Free Markets are bad.

All they do is make the rich richer.

Yowza... that's a fucking sentence LOL

Look, when it comes to personal freedom, a free market is the only way to go. With an over regulated market you just get the same old crap we always get. We probably wouldn't have computers, cell phones, toys, etc. Because the government would swoop in and say "This is clearly bad for you, we need to protect you from it,"  which is why I'm fundamentally against anything other than a free market.

As for your other sentence, yeah, but it also allows for other people to become rich as well. In a limited market economy, the government and and a few "select" businesses get richer, it would be nearly impossible for someone from the "middle class" to join the ranks of the rich in a limited market, in the free market all it takes is a good idea, and good business sense. Plus, free markets give the people the freedom to choose whether or not a product succeeds or fails, not the government.

Kids with 2 bitcoin love the anon hackers rebel no rules bad ass bullshit.
but guys who make 1.5 billion dollars profit REALLY like the lack of regulations..

.

Sure, I mean, I'm a kid, and I used to think the rebel hacker bullshit was the coolest thing in the world. The Matrix really cemented that for me lol

But in all seriousness, Bitcoin isn't really all that different from cash. Sure there aren't as many laws restricting Bitcoins use, but fundamentally there isn't a lot we can to prevent cash from being used the same way.

Sure a lack of regulations can be bad, especially because we are humans, and humans are intrinsically assholes, but with a lack of regulation, the government can't swoop in a take all our Bitcoins, or shut Bitcoin down, or whatever. That's basically the entire point of Bitcoin, a lack of government power/oversight.

You *could even the playing field by putting regulations in place but you don't want that for some odd reason.
I always think of Berni Madoff and Martha Stewart.
A ponzi scheme'er and an insider trader.
Can you guys fathom how many guys in Crypto would be behind bars if we had similar laws ?
I just said..
You *could even the playing field by putting regulations in place but you don't want that for some odd reason.
I think i see why now LOL

See, the thing is, an "even playing field" isn't really even, ever. Especially when talking about money. When it comes down to it, regulations put the power in the hands of the government, a lack of regulations puts *most* of the power in the hands of the rich. The difference here is that in one of those scenarios, the power is fixed and unchanging, in the other, the power is shifting hands basically everyday.

And, yeah, people have been arrested for Bitcoin crimes. Google "First Pirate Savings and Trust" and you'll see what I mean.

But, if you're a socialist/communist (no bias against either of those viewpoints, I just disagree with them) then me arguing with you probably won't convince you of anything.

Also, I just realized that the topic on this thread has shifted dramatically because Spoetnik and I are now arguing about the fundamentals of economy. I just thought that was funny LOL

[Spoetnik]

i did not say i want excessive regulation.. i meant *some.
this will enable fairness.
imagine what would happen if the current stock markets abolished any related laws.

the housing market deal was all about the hollow stocks that have no value.. like a clone coin ponzi.
if you're into P2P file sharing look up on torrent sites this file, Money for Nothing Inside the Federal Reserve - Jim Bruce 2013
it explains it REALLY well !
i think every American should be required to see that in school or something.

but yeah i agree Govt. involvement is often a train wreck.. no debate there LOL

but there is a huge difference between no rules and some fair ones to even the playing field.
don't skip over the point that the only thing close to a real Free Market is the illegal Black Market.
American capitalism stock exchange stuff is heavily regulated.
Where is the Free Market examples in life ?

I also have long been a proponent of *some regulation for 1 single reason.
I am convinced this is the major barrier to any and all crypto currency technology (lack of regulations)
Why ?
Because i don't think the people who trade on the US stock exchange etc or your friends and family on Facebook
are going to -ever- adopt a crypto currency unless there is *some regulations put into place for it.
And it's hard for any of you to deny me that assertion too.
Think about it.. Look at how Tigerdirect etc handles Bitcoin.
They know it's risky and few places adopt it for use as a currency because it's a hassle and it's risk to them.
How would you minimize the *perceived risk ? ..regulations.

edit: i forgot many of you may not know there is a huge amount of complaints about them.
when a refund is needed and you paid with Bitcoin expect pure hell ..Google it

I also am not trolling when i say Bitcoin is not a currency and more resembles a pyramid or ponzi scheme.
I google searched "Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme" recently and not because i really thought it was one
but because the public does.. and i wondered why technically do they ?

I hate to say it but search result no. 1 on Google had an editorial on the Washington Post that summed it up nicely.
After reading that i have a hard time deny what the guy said.. he's right !
All of you should read that story
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/08/bitcoin-isnt-the-future-of-money-its-either-a-ponzi-scheme-or-a-pyramid-scheme/
Why ?
because it's what the people we want to join us see when they Google search Bitcoin.
And of course i think Altcoins fit right in there with it..same crap.

Well you all say People don't think that.. wrong !
Most of the public have been saying that loud and clear all over the world for years now
and rather than supporting adding regulations you all have plugged your ears and demanded they are wrong.
problem is the public is in charge not us.. we can't force them to use BTC or an Altcoin.
Public perception is important.. what we think is not.

EDIT:
Point ?
Bitcoin and Altcoins are not used as currencies nor are they designed as one.

[tukkslope2]

altcoins not dead, but scammy altcoins are

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1226618.0

all the greedy and scammy devs are drying up the bitcoin that used to be for trade

no more trade due to scammy devilz

[HeroCat]

Some of altcoins are still popular, because some Web sites are using altcoins  Also altcoins have very fast transaction time 

[ilovealtcoins]

i did not say i want excessive regulation.. i meant *some.
this will enable fairness.
imagine what would happen if the current stock markets abolished any related laws.

the housing market deal was all about the hollow stocks that have no value.. like a clone coin ponzi.
if you're into P2P file sharing look up on torrent sites this file, Money for Nothing Inside the Federal Reserve - Jim Bruce 2013
it explains it REALLY well !
i think every American should be required to see that in school or something.

but yeah i agree Govt. involvement is often a train wreck.. no debate there LOL

but there is a huge difference between no rules and some fair ones to even the playing field.
don't skip over the point that the only thing close to a real Free Market is the illegal Black Market.
American capitalism stock exchange stuff is heavily regulated.
Where is the Free Market examples in life ?

I also have long been a proponent of *some regulation for 1 single reason.
I am convinced this is the major barrier to any and all crypto currency technology (lack of regulations)
Why ?
Because i don't think the people who trade on the US stock exchange etc or your friends and family on Facebook
are going to -ever- adopt a crypto currency unless there is *some regulations put into place for it.
And it's hard for any of you to deny me that assertion too.
Think about it.. Look at how Tigerdirect etc handles Bitcoin.
They know it's risky and few places adopt it for use as a currency because it's a hassle and it's risk to them.
How would you minimize the *perceived risk ? ..regulations.

I'm not going to talk about regulation, as I am pretty clueless when it comes to securities and exchange law.

I might come back to it when I bone up on my reading but, I'll just concede that this sounds pretty fair/correct, however I still disagree that there can ever be a "level playing field.

edit: i forgot many of you may not know there is a huge amount of complaints about them.
when a refund is needed and you paid with Bitcoin expect pure hell ..Google it

I also am not trolling when i say Bitcoin is not a currency and more resembles a pyramid or ponzi scheme.
I google searched "Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme" recently and not because i really thought it was one
but because the public does.. and i wondered why technically do they ?

I hate to say it but search result no. 1 on Google had an editorial on the Washington Post that summed it up nicely.
After reading that i have a hard time deny what the guy said.. he's right !
All of you should read that story
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/08/bitcoin-isnt-the-future-of-money-its-either-a-ponzi-scheme-or-a-pyramid-scheme/
Why ?
because it's what the people we want to join us see when they Google search Bitcoin.
And of course i think Altcoins fit right in there with it..same crap.

Well you all say People don't think that.. wrong !
Most of the public have been saying that loud and clear all over the world for years now
and rather than supporting adding regulations you all have plugged your ears and demanded they are wrong.
problem is the public is in charge not us.. we can't force them to use BTC or an Altcoin.
Public perception is important.. what we think is not.

EDIT:
Point ?
Bitcoin and Altcoins are not used as currencies nor are they designed as one.

Now, the meat of your post Spoetnik... the classic "Bitcoin is a ponzi" claim (Which the article you provided does not substantiate)

This one is practically as old as Bitcoin itself. The thing is, Bitcoin is usually thought of as a Ponzi because early adopters are currently rolling piles of Fiat because they cashed out, while us late-adopters are still trying to work our way up to 1 BTC (Me, currently) which is why _Some_ people think Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. Which can be disputed many ways, especially considering that it's not any different than early investors making more money from a startup than late investors, but I digress.

No, the article claims Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme because
1. It isn't a currency and
2. People hoard bitcoins with the hope they will skyrocket in price, and then try to convince other people to buy Bitcoin so the price will go up

See... these two points do not prove that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, mainly because they are incorrect or misinformed.

1. Bitcoin is, in fact, a currency.

According to investopedia currency is defined as:

Currency is a generally accepted form of money, including coins and paper notes, which is issued by a government and circulated within an economy. Used as a medium of exchange for goods and services, currency is the basis for trade.

Sure, Bitcoin isn't issued by a government, but it is circulated within the economy, used as a medium of exchange for goods and services, and is the basis of trade. Sounds like it fits all MOST of the criteria.

2. Yes, people hoard Bitcoins, but you know what else people hoard in hopes of becoming rich? Gold. Gold is one of the most valuable things on Earth, has been used as a currency, has backed other forms of currency, and is generally considered to be a solid investment for people.

How is that any different than Bitcoin? And why is Bitcoin considered a Ponzi/Pyramid scheme because people hoard it the same way they hoard gold?

I've hard many people tell me I should invest in gold (and oil. Canadians are HUGE on Oil) but when people do it for Bitcoin it's different? I honestly don't follow the logic there.

[Spoetnik]

I think you proved what i was saying about BTC and Alt's (they are an extension)

I said ponzi /pyramid because from an objective stand point it seemed true.
You just said it yourself.. BTC is primarily used as a digital commodity than it is a currency.
It seems to me BTC usage as a currency (as little as it is).. is simply a push for BTC holders to want that for
legitimacy and added value..
Because with out having BTC used as a true currency for bartering etc then what value does a digital stock have ?

That author was right.. it does hinge on "one day" the masses will all use it (as a currency)
What if that never happens ?
I think if BTC is only ever used a digital commodity it will continue to suffer a downward pressure in value.
Big mining operations mine them and dump them on the exchanges..
If there is not enough permanent buy support it will be crushed into worthlessness !
So who is buying them ?
A select group of traders.. the minority (not the general public)
The public does not want to buy a Bitcoin worth $1,000 or even $300 usd
Would i ?
Hell no !
You all here might but you guys don't matter.

Many people in Crypto have acquired Bitcoins or ALT's through a variety of means.
But the general public is expected to go to their bank and take out a massive amount of fiat to go buy them.
Some of you reading this got yours because.
- You traded Altcoins to get your BTC.
- You were an early miner (BTC can not be mined anymore)
- You are a Ransomware coder extorting people for money who are forced to get BTC to get their files back.
  Note: The Ransomware industry supposedly pulls in annually an estimated 325 million dollars a year.
  and if any of them hit reply here i will get an argument.. because they need to keep cashing them out LOL

Well anyway i think it always revolves around public adoption.
Which has been in a steady decline for 2 years.

All i have to say about currencies is..
if it is not used as one but instead used as something else than it's not a currency !

iLoveAltcoins you admitted BTC is not really used as one but as a stock.
Just like that Washington Post guy said..
And the author clearly made the title and his comments reflect that he figured it was "more like" a ponzi / pyramid scheme.
He meant it was more like that negative label than it was a "currency"
And when i thought about i see what he is saying and i also think it applies to Altcoins just as much too.

I have been like you guy all along.. a fan of BTC
I google'd that set of keywords because i was curious why people say that.. not because i thought that myself.
He convinced me.. why ?
Because he made some good points about how Bitcoin was engineered to function (and the related limitations)
I am not trying to be a Troll and i am not saying i give up on Bitcoin either.

EDIT:
That Washington Post guy must have been convincing as others who keep saying it (since i started crypto)
Because it was hit #1 on Google and look around.. see the general public clamoring "Take My Money ?"

[ilovealtcoins]

Sure, I mean, Bitcoin nowadays is used mostly as a commodity. But that isn't through a fault of design, it was more a fault of consumers. When Bitcoin trading became big business, everyone jumped on the bandwagon and the price shot up, thus getting more people in on the bandwagon. It's a self serving business model, and I find it very disheartening. I would actually be a lot happier if Bitcoin was more or less on par with the dollar. Then it would be more viable as a currency because, as you said, who wants to buy 1 BTC for $1000, unless you plan to make a profit off of it.

The original vision for bitcoin was an admirable one, a currency free from government control. One that couldn't be shut down without shutting down the internet itself. The mindset changed somewhere though, when trading became very profitable, when mining became even more profitable.

You're right when you say that a currency is mostly defined by how much, and how the public adopts it. But just because a lot of people trade Bitcoin as a commodity, doesn't mean it isn't a currency. See the thing about a commodity is that it serves some need or purpose, has some kind of value that can be traded for other things of value. Bitcoin, technically, has no value. It serves no greater purpose than to exist. Sure the ideology behind it and the tech behind is, indeed valuable, but the Bitcoin itself isn't. It's the same as fiat, it's technically worthless, but we all agree it has worth because, why not? Also, another point, commodities can be used as currency. Look at gold for instance, before we had a "gold backed" currency, we literally used gold as a currency, it was still a commodity, but it was also a currency.

And, again, you're right when you say that Bitcoin has a lot of limitations that would limit it's ability to become a mainstream "currency" but just because it has limitations, doesn't mean that it ISN'T a currency.

I have been like you guy all along.. a fan of BTC
I google'd that set of keywords because i was curious why people say that.. not because i thought that myself.
He convinced me.. why ?
Because he made some good points about how Bitcoin was engineered to function (and the related limitations)
I am not trying to be a Troll and i am not saying i give up on Bitcoin either.

Hey man, I don't think you're a troll , I think you're just giving your honest opinion as you see fit, and you do actually make some good points. I just happen to disagree with that opinion, which is why I'm still posting here, arguing my stance lol

But to say that it's a Ponzi/Pyramid scheme is a stretch, I could see how people could think of it as a commodity or stock, but as a fraudulent business, I just don't see it personally.