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Author Topic: Is the life we live today worth what it took to get here ?  (Read 1943 times)
Bitware
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November 13, 2012, 11:11:28 AM
 #1

http://www.ted.com/talks/aaron_huey.html
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November 21, 2012, 01:56:05 AM
 #2

no, but there's not much to be done about it.
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November 21, 2012, 11:30:56 AM
 #3

How do you right wrongs in your own family ?

Or do you simply tell your children there is not much that can be done about it?
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November 21, 2012, 03:30:06 PM
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How do you right wrongs in your own family ?

Or do you simply tell your children there is not much that can be done about it?

Wrongs in my family are done by people who are alive and who have performed the wrongs. I didn't personally displace the Natives.

I have a solution for a market based egalitarian system of temporary land rights ownership that would help not just these people but help all people be free. It would not right the wrongs of the past, but it would put the present and the future in fair terms. But I also know that it will not be accepted but by a few philosophical enthusiasts in my lifetime. The concepts are too damning of the official property dogma.

What I will say is dumping a bunch of money on these people will not help. To say you can solve this is tanemount to saying you have the solution not only to poverty but intergenerational strife. To announce this would be hubris.

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November 21, 2012, 03:39:36 PM
 #5

My ancestors had the choice of coming to America or dying. They were kicked out of their homes by a military. Life is tough all over.

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November 21, 2012, 03:45:51 PM
 #6

I have a solution for a market based egalitarian system of temporary land rights ownership that would help not just these people but help all people be free.

Rights are not temporary. Whatever your system is, it doesn't deal with rights.

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November 21, 2012, 03:55:17 PM
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TED stands for Technology, Entertainment and Design.

This talk is only about history and politics.
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November 21, 2012, 07:13:32 PM
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Rights are not temporary. Whatever your system is, it doesn't deal with rights.

I'm pretty sure even in your system people can sell their right to land to another person, making the right to that land only temporary.
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November 21, 2012, 08:20:57 PM
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Rights are not temporary. Whatever your system is, it doesn't deal with rights.

I'm pretty sure even in your system people can sell their right to land to another person, making the right to that land only temporary.

No, ownership is temporary. The right to ownership is permanent, and inalienable.

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November 21, 2012, 08:23:50 PM
 #10

I don't know what the talk said, but what's been done by people before me is not my responsibility.  We should certainly study and learn from it, but amends should be made in the generations that conducted the crime.  If no amends are made then, it is not the responsibility of the descendents to make amends.
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November 21, 2012, 09:51:06 PM
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I don't know what the talk said, but what's been done by people before me is not my responsibility.  We should certainly study and learn from it, but amends should be made in the generations that conducted the crime.  If no amends are made then, it is not the responsibility of the descendents to make amends.

So you believe a debt is destroyed at death.

If your father owed $100,000.00 on his land, would you expect that debt to be wiped clean at his death, or should the person to whom the debt is owed will be owed the money or the property ?

What if the currency was what it took to obtain it... say human lives ?
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November 21, 2012, 10:01:21 PM
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I don't know what the talk said, but what's been done by people before me is not my responsibility.  We should certainly study and learn from it, but amends should be made in the generations that conducted the crime.  If no amends are made then, it is not the responsibility of the descendents to make amends.

So you believe a debt is destroyed at death.

If your father owed $100,000.00 on his land, would you expect that debt to be wiped clean at his death, or should the person to whom the debt is owed will be owed the money or the property ?

What if the currency was what it took to obtain it... say human lives ?
Eh, I see your point.

I move to having no opinion on the matter, but will watch this discussion with interest.
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November 21, 2012, 10:47:25 PM
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I don't know what the talk said, but what's been done by people before me is not my responsibility.  We should certainly study and learn from it, but amends should be made in the generations that conducted the crime.  If no amends are made then, it is not the responsibility of the descendents to make amends.

So you believe a debt is destroyed at death.

If your father owed $100,000.00 on his land, would you expect that debt to be wiped clean at his death, or should the person to whom the debt is owed will be owed the money or the property ?

What if the currency was what it took to obtain it... say human lives ?
Eh, I see your point.

I move to having no opinion on the matter, but will watch this discussion with interest.

I don't use that land or claim that land. I didn't hurt anyone and neither did my dad.

If you affiliate yourself with some of the various governments that perpetrated and continue in murder and cruelty then I think you do have moral problems, this being one of many.

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November 25, 2012, 06:58:26 PM
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I don't know what the talk said, but what's been done by people before me is not my responsibility.  We should certainly study and learn from it, but amends should be made in the generations that conducted the crime.  If no amends are made then, it is not the responsibility of the descendents to make amends.

So you believe a debt is destroyed at death.

If your father owed $100,000.00 on his land, would you expect that debt to be wiped clean at his death, or should the person to whom the debt is owed will be owed the money or the property ?

What if the currency was what it took to obtain it... say human lives ?

Only if he or she used the land as collateral.  Otherwise, the creditor should have taken a life insurance policy out on the lender.

If the currency was human lives, then same thing.

Only if he or she used future generations as collateral.  Otherwise, the creditor should have taken the life of the lender.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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November 26, 2012, 08:10:22 AM
 #15

so... what's being said here is; if you have enough force, you can do anything you want, and all future descendants of those affected need to lump it.

EDIT: I really need to get into the empire building business.
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November 26, 2012, 10:22:33 AM
 #16

So, first the U.S. loses the war against those natives.  As a result these natives got total ownership of the land.  The place was even supposed to be "closed to all whites".

Then later, the U.S. found a strategic method to counter-attack:  they kill all buffaloes in the area.  So the native could not rely on this as a resource for food, shelter and clothing.   So finally, the U.S. won.

And now, almost two hundred years later, a white man complains on TED.  How weird.

When you lose, it's done.  Game over.  Complaining is not an effective way of turning a defeat into a victory.
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November 26, 2012, 11:41:01 PM
 #17

I don't know what the talk said, but what's been done by people before me is not my responsibility.  We should certainly study and learn from it, but amends should be made in the generations that conducted the crime.  If no amends are made then, it is not the responsibility of the descendents to make amends.

So you believe a debt is destroyed at death.

If your father owed $100,000.00 on his land, would you expect that debt to be wiped clean at his death, or should the person to whom the debt is owed will be owed the money or the property ?
Only if he or she used the land as collateral.  Otherwise, the creditor should have taken a life insurance policy out on the lender.

Well put. Though the creditor and lender are the same person. Wink it should be "debtor"

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November 27, 2012, 09:04:00 PM
 #18

I salute the unborn decendents of the pacifists throughout history!

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 28, 2012, 09:35:36 AM
 #19

My ancestors had the choice of coming to America or dying. They were kicked out of their homes by a military. Life is tough all over.


Many of your Ancestors may have had the choice to participate in self-desctructive psychotic violence in the name of racial genocide.  Unfortunately for all of us many of them did participate, due to misguided social pressure, child abuse, and other factors mostly involving what we would call today mental illness.           


This talk wasn't that bad, thanks OP.   

Props to Aaron Huey for bringing this talk, we sure need more like it in the land of holocaust denial if we are to move forward psychologically or if we ever hope to recover some of the real "best meat".



 

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November 28, 2012, 09:20:54 PM
 #20

I'm English so technically those Americans of you out there stole land from me in the revolution and you owe me some moolah. Send me your bitcoins. I work with a guy of Indian descent so I'll make sure to split it with him and we should all be square. Any Vikings out there contact me directly and we can discuss negotiations over all that raping and pillaging.

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