Time to stand up to the XT shills here!

[vodaljepa]

We need an anti XT shill force

[gambit1]

I'll do it.

DOWN WITH BIGGER BLOCKS. DOWN WITH NODES AND XT AND GAVIN COWS!!! UP WITH SMALLER BLOCKS. KEEP THINGS THE SAME. cHANGE THINGS BUT KEEP THEM THE SAME.

DOWN WITH SHILLs!!!

Where's my cheque?

[da2ce7]

The XT crew have made lowcows of themselves.  Even Gavin has moved back to working on Bitcoin Core (on github).

He has never stopped.
All the claim from idiots that he was stopped developing on Bitcoin was pure shit  

Well there was a period where he directly contributed to Bitcoin XT, providing a total of 5 pull requests:
https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/pulls?q=author%3Agavinandresen

For the same period, other than promoting his BIP 101, he was notably very quite on the Bitcoin Core github.

More recently he has become involved in many technical discussions over on the Bitcoin Core Github.

I think that you can track the change after this particular message to the mailing list:
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/011220.html

Instead of going the lolcow route (aka the one Mike Hearn took), Gavin has made a concerted effort to re-gain some trust in with the Bitcoin Development community.

Oh and if you are wondering what the 'lolcow' post was. Here it is:
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/011304.html

[nicked]

I use this thread to decide which users to put on my ignore list.

[HostFat]

Again, he has never stopped working on Bitcoin, whenever it was Bitcoin XT or Bitcoin Core.

You can go and check even on the pull request on Bitcoin Core.
Even while he wasn't adding code, he was checking the pull requests from the others.

They were a totally false statements from people that were trying to demolish his image the community.

Nothing has changed, you are just seeing the reality and thinking that something has changed, while it has not.

[StateOfAffairs]

Forking bazstards! I don't quite understand the issue here, what are the shills going to achieve on a forum that's behind Bitcoin?

[dothebeats]

Users "knight22" and "meono", and their ilk, don't posses any other skill they can use to earn a living.

So they must resort to shilling. Can you imagine dedicating your whole day to spreading lies?

What a pathetic existence they must live. When you look back on your life, will you feel proud for attempting to destroy one of the most positive developments mankind has ever seen?

maybe they just want a solution in the blocksize debate? maybe they just want bitcoin to succeed and scale?

hopefully the next 3 months will bring that solution.



@HostFat

good point. to be static at this stage means death.

Am also thinking of the same. Though I somehow feel that Hearn and Gavin's position as lead devs is somehow iffy, still bitcoin's block size limit shouldn't be static at all and just be changed when the problem is already there. Actually what they propose is great, it's just that the way they want to implement is, well, not that good imo.

[da2ce7]

Again, he has never stopped working on Bitcoin, whenever it was Bitcoin XT or Bitcoin Core.

This part is quite true, he was working on Bitcoin Core, then switched to XT when his pull request was rejected:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6341

History of Gavin's Pull Requests for Bitcoin Core:
https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/pulls?q=author%3Agavinandresen

You can see how the Bitcoin Core > Bitcoin XT > Bitcoin Core chronological fits quite nicely.

It also matches up very nicely with the aforementioned mailing list posts.

I want to make it clear that I'm not suggesting that Gavin is a *bad actor*, I'm just supplying evidence to support my claim that Bitcoin XT is considered a laughing stock from the Bitcoin Technical Community.

I do think that it is fair to suggest that Gavin was interested in Bitcoin XT more than Bitcoin Core for a period of time as Bitcoin XT accepted his BIP 101 pull requests.

[CIYAM]

I want to make it clear that I'm not suggesting that Gavin is a *bad actor*, I'm just supplying evidence to support my claim that Bitcoin XT is considered a laughing stock from the Bitcoin Technical Community.

Thanks for supplying some actually relevant information (we don't get much apart from "freedom of speech" idiocy from the shills).

[HostFat]

@da2ce7
Like the market, it follows the more liquid way.
Bitcon is still a place for permissionless innovation, if it isn't possible somewhere, you can try/add it somewhere else.

Still, users have the last choice. (while it possible for them to know there there are others ...)

You can see here that now is still contributing on XT:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bitcoin-xt
His last message is two hours ago.

He is contributing everywhere he can. (whatever you think he is doing is good or bad)
He isn't going somewhere and then going back.

I think that he is acting without any mutually exclusive way of thinking.

[da2ce7]

You can see here that now is still contributing on XT:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bitcoin-xt
His last message is two hours ago.

He is contributing everywhere he can. (whatever you think he is doing is good or bad)
He isn't going somewhere and then going back.

I think that he is acting without any mutually exclusive way of thinking.

Except for the unfortunate fact that Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin XT are mathematically mutually exclusive.

Slightly off-topic, but ever wondered how you gain 'lolcow' points in the bitcoin technical community: look no further!

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6579

[HostFat]

Except for the unfortunate fact that Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin XT are mathematically mutually exclusive.

You are right, but the choice is still in the hands of the users, and not on something else (like a bunch of devs)
BIP101 can't activate without the majority of nodes (and exchanges, payment processors, services ...) and miners.
None of them will make a change if it doesn't fill the requests of their users.

[Lauda]

So the 'stand up to the XT shills' thread became a Gavin and Core vs XT discussion? How about we actually discuss the topic here. The problem does not only lie in random XT shills but the information that they're spreading. They are usually spreading false information, false promises in order to manipulate people around here. We've seen it in a lot of threads.

The rise of block size to 2MB or higher is essential in the next two years to make bitcoin usable for most people and not to increase the transaction fee too much.

Sure. Almost everyone agrees with that, however nobody with common sense agrees with XT and BIP101. Their shilling efforts won't help them.

[HostFat]

They are usually spreading false information, false promises in order to manipulate people around here. We've seen it in a lot of threads.

Why is not the opposite? 

[CIYAM]

Why is not the opposite?  

How about you quote the misinformation rather than just making such statements?

Basically I think we are all getting sick and tired of the XT shills that don't even understand the technical arguments but just seemingly want to have Mike Hearn as their leader.

[da2ce7]

You are right, but the choice is still in the hands of the users, and not on something else (like a bunch of devs)
BIP101 can't activate without the majority of nodes (and exchanges, payment processors, services ...) and miners.

No BIP101 (as coded in Bitcoin XT) will activate when 75% of the blocks flag it.  The miners being honest or dishonest is not relevant.

Bitcoin XT activation of BIP101 doesn't depend on "exchanges, payment processors, services ..." (or anything else).

You are not correct with your statement.  For example, 76% of the miners may choose to fuck-over the Bitcoin XT nodes, by falsely flagging BIP101 -  Then opening up the XT nodes to cheap double spend attacks whenever they (or anyone) wants.

[CIYAM]

Bitcoin XT activation of BIP101 doesn't depend on "exchanges, payment processors, services ..." (or anything else).

Yup - yet the shills keep on trying to say that what matters is "nodes" not "miners" (and tend to go off into "freedom of choice" tangents from there).

[CIYAM]

To add a little bit of "logic" to this let's just look into why there is this sudden need to increase the block sizes.

Are they getting full now? In general no (around 50%) and when they have been full that has been only at times when spam attacks are happening (so nothing to do with actual consumer demand for BTC txs).

Another typical argument is: the average person isn't adopting Bitcoin so we need bigger blocks.

Hmm... but if the average person doesn't even earn any Bitcoin then why on earth are we expecting a huge number of new txs?

I've pointed out before that the remittance market is the biggest and most suitable match for BTC but it barely even has had any impact in that multi-billion dollar industry.

If the amount of effort that was being put into trying to push XT was actually put into to trying to get BTC into the remittance market then maybe we'd actually have a "real reason" to need bigger blocks quicker.

[HostFat]

No BIP101 (as coded in Bitcoin XT) will activate when 75% of the blocks flag it.  The miners being honest or dishonest is not relevant.

Bitcoin XT activation of BIP101 doesn't depend on "exchanges, payment processors, services ..." (or anything else).

You are not correct with your statement.  For example, 76% of the miners may choose to fuck-over the Bitcoin XT nodes, by falsely flagging BIP101 -  Then opening up the XT nodes to cheap double spend attacks whenever they (or anyone) wants.

You are missing the whole picture.

How can a fucking miner sell his prize if all the exchange aren't using his money!?

He can't. It's the same as simple being dishonest as a miner, making false blocks or else, the network will just ignore his blocks.

Do you think that miners will be happy to make useless garbage blocks, wasting time and "money" because they prefer to? There is no way that this will happen.

And this is because my previous phrases are 100% correct, that is needed that large majority of the whole network wants the BIP101 to happen.
Can you understand it now?

Miners are just complacent slaves, they have no power to change anything and nodes (users/services -> nodes) don't want.

[da2ce7]

So the 'stand up to the XT shills' thread became a Gavin and Core vs XT discussion? How about we actually discuss the topic here. The problem does not only lie in random XT shills but the information that they're spreading. They are usually spreading false information, false promises in order to manipulate people around here. We've seen it in a lot of threads.

Sure, however one of the best responses to shills is ridicule.

To show how an XT shill's position is ridiculous, in a brain-dead-sad way, is an effective method of shifting the debate from technical matters (that are resoundingly resolved), to a tacit of mocking opposition being a absolute complete mockery.