why bitcoin price can only surge ... explanation.

[katafrag]

Holders and speculators can make bitcoin price surge as we seen last 30 days to 500$.
Then speculators sell and we see a correction to 400$

BUT

Big Bitcoin miners and Big Vendors can start stabilising the price by refusing to sell their production under a certain price
and here we have it stability since 6 days now between 375-395 $ . I suspect them even to form a cartel that can buy when the price goes under their margin target . Remember the stability around 250$ for months it was weird.

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[1Referee]

The stability around $220-$240 is not weird. Bitcoin was worth that value since people weren't willing to sell their coins for anything less. Even pools were not in the mood to sell their coins for such a price. They have done it throughout the peak to $500.

[katafrag]

The stability around $220-$240 is not weird. Bitcoin was worth that value since people weren't willing to sell their coins for anything less. Even pools were not in the mood to sell their coins for such a price. They have done it throughout the peak to $500.

yes i didn't mean weird in a negative way , but that a cartel is formed like in all markets .Everything has to have a price. Look at cocaine , oil or banana's.

or just look at waht happended 3 hours ago https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd

Just watched also an intersting clip about price

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFfHGGhCxCM

[1Referee]

The stability around $220-$240 is not weird. Bitcoin was worth that value since people weren't willing to sell their coins for anything less. Even pools were not in the mood to sell their coins for such a price. They have done it throughout the peak to $500.

yes i didn't mean weird in a negative way , but that a cartel is formed like in all markets .Everything has to have a price. Look at cocaine , oil or banana's.

or just look at waht happended 3 hours ago https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd

Just watched also an intersting clip about price

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFfHGGhCxCM

Yes, that's right. Like other markets, Bitcoin also gets manipulated by traders/groups with very deep pockets. People who own the most also risk to lose the most. In some ways they have to keep supporting the price to not be the loser and lose millions of dollars.

What's up with Bitstamp, you mean the dump to $371? I think some one cashed out or just over reacted by selling. Bitfinex went to $375 and somewhat recovered. I think we'll see these dumps more often the comming days/weeks.

[Amph]

however miners are forced to sell soemthing to cover their bills, which based on a simple math should be

at 0.05 per electricity and 400 peta, with s5(let's assume so, the shift to s7 is still premature for allt he miners, i doubt everyone is running s7) you around 350k s5

so 210k kw x 0.05 x 30 = $315k monthly(829 bitcoin), now profit is $1368000(3600 x 380) = 1M inprofit

so they dump around 830 btc each day to cover cost, this is the minimum that they are dumping

[Jambolb2]

however miners are forced to sell soemthing to cover their bills, which based on a simple math should be

at 0.05 per electricity and 400 peta, with s5(let's assume so, the shift to s7 is still premature for allt he miners, i doubt everyone is running s7) you around 350k s5

so 210k kw x 0.05 x 30 = $315k monthly(829 bitcoin), now profit is $1368000(3600 x 380) = 1M inprofit

so they dump around 830 btc each day to cover cost, this is the minimum that they are dumping

That is minimum for the electricity bill. For large mining farms, they also have to pay building, wage etc. I think at least 1800 coins are needed as the average electricity is higher than $0.05.

[katafrag]

The stability around $220-$240 is not weird. Bitcoin was worth that value since people weren't willing to sell their coins for anything less. Even pools were not in the mood to sell their coins for such a price. They have done it throughout the peak to $500.

yes i didn't mean weird in a negative way , but that a cartel is formed like in all markets .Everything has to have a price. Look at cocaine , oil or banana's.

or just look at waht happended 3 hours ago https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd

Just watched also an intersting clip about price

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFfHGGhCxCM

Yes, that's right. Like other markets, Bitcoin also gets manipulated by traders/groups with very deep pockets. People who own the most also risk to lose the most. In some ways they have to keep supporting the price to not be the loser and lose millions of dollars.

What's up with Bitstamp, you mean the dump to $371? I think some one cashed out or just over reacted by selling. Bitfinex went to $375 and somewhat recovered. I think we'll see these dumps more often the comming days/weeks.

Yes the dump was obvious, but the recovery in the same volumes is also obviously , a group of miners / investors / vendors who want to keep the price stable.

Miners need to sell for their electricity bill but a better price is also in their advantage.
Vendors cannot afford the price to go down, it will piss off their customers.

So like in all big industries now after 5 years of existence i'm pretty sure a cartel is formed. Remember Standard Oil, the Rockerfellers etc...

[kwukduck]

This is another reason why bitcoin can never succeed. It's like an environmental disaster covered in flowers. Complete waste of scarce energy and sold as something wonderful.

[r0ach]

This is another reason why bitcoin can never succeed. It's like an environmental disaster covered in flowers. Complete waste of scarce energy and sold as something wonderful.

^By far the biggest child on the forum constantly spamming FUD to try and make his short position work.  Just going to post this picture any time this scumbag posts.  He shorted all year and made a little bit of money then lost everything when it went to 500, now he's back doing the same thing spamming garbage with his bought account all over again.



So how you doing with those short losses?

[Haunebu81]

This is another reason why bitcoin can never succeed. It's like an environmental disaster covered in flowers. Complete waste of scarce energy and sold as something wonderful.

^By far the biggest child on the forum constantly spamming FUD to try and make his short position work.  Just going to post this picture any time this scumbag posts.  He shorted all year and made a little bit of money then lost everything when it went to 500, now he's back doing the same thing spamming garbage with his bought account all over again.



So how you doing with those short losses?

LMFAO!

[ahpku]

I thought the pump was gonna go on forever, so I invested more than I can afford to lose.
Now panicking because got teh bag.

That explains everything.

[Amph]

however miners are forced to sell soemthing to cover their bills, which based on a simple math should be

at 0.05 per electricity and 400 peta, with s5(let's assume so, the shift to s7 is still premature for allt he miners, i doubt everyone is running s7) you around 350k s5

so 210k kw x 0.05 x 30 = $315k monthly(829 bitcoin), now profit is $1368000(3600 x 380) = 1M inprofit

so they dump around 830 btc each day to cover cost, this is the minimum that they are dumping

That is minimum for the electricity bill. For large mining farms, they also have to pay building, wage etc. I think at least 1800 coins are needed as the average electricity is higher than $0.05.

yeah i also believe that they ar epaying much mor,e but not the whole 3600 mined supply per day

i just calculated the minimum that they are dumping, not that it matter, they are still dumping a tiny drop in the ocean, because 1M to almost 6B is nothing

[Mickeyb]

This is another reason why bitcoin can never succeed. It's like an environmental disaster covered in flowers. Complete waste of scarce energy and sold as something wonderful.

^By far the biggest child on the forum constantly spamming FUD to try and make his short position work.  Just going to post this picture any time this scumbag posts.  He shorted all year and made a little bit of money then lost everything when it went to 500, now he's back doing the same thing spamming garbage with his bought account all over again.



So how you doing with those short losses?

LMFAO!

Haha this is really priceless!

[Ultros]

This is another reason why bitcoin can never succeed. It's like an environmental disaster covered in flowers. Complete waste of scarce energy and sold as something wonderful.

^By far the biggest child on the forum constantly spamming FUD to try and make his short position work.  Just going to post this picture any time this scumbag posts.  He shorted all year and made a little bit of money then lost everything when it went to 500, now he's back doing the same thing spamming garbage with his bought account all over again.



So how you doing with those short losses?

I'm really tempted to put that picture as a signature...

[NorrisK]

however miners are forced to sell soemthing to cover their bills, which based on a simple math should be

at 0.05 per electricity and 400 peta, with s5(let's assume so, the shift to s7 is still premature for allt he miners, i doubt everyone is running s7) you around 350k s5

so 210k kw x 0.05 x 30 = $315k monthly(829 bitcoin), now profit is $1368000(3600 x 380) = 1M inprofit

so they dump around 830 btc each day to cover cost, this is the minimum that they are dumping

That is minimum for the electricity bill. For large mining farms, they also have to pay building, wage etc. I think at least 1800 coins are needed as the average electricity is higher than $0.05.

Who says that they have to sell their coins to cover their bills?

If they had some investments or are mining as an investment, it can very well be that they are taking a loss now for greater potential gains in the future.

It is not all black and white imo.

[katafrag]

big dump from 380 to 367 , let's see if it recovers to 380...

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd

[pattu1]

Holders and speculators can make bitcoin price surge as we seen last 30 days to 500$.
Then speculators sell and we see a correction to 400$

BUT

Big Bitcoin miners and Big Vendors can start stabilising the price by refusing to sell their production under a certain price
and here we have it stability since 6 days now between 375-395 $ . I suspect them even to form a cartel that can buy when the price goes under their margin target . Remember the stability around 250$ for months it was weird.

Price is drifting below the $375-395 range that you mentioned. In the end, miners have bills which they have to pay in fiat. 

[katafrag]

Holders and speculators can make bitcoin price surge as we seen last 30 days to 500$.
Then speculators sell and we see a correction to 400$

BUT

Big Bitcoin miners and Big Vendors can start stabilising the price by refusing to sell their production under a certain price
and here we have it stability since 6 days now between 375-395 $ . I suspect them even to form a cartel that can buy when the price goes under their margin target . Remember the stability around 250$ for months it was weird.

Price is drifting below the $375-395 range that you mentioned. In the end, miners have bills which they have to pay in fiat. 

the more you think about it , the more bitcoins seems to one hell of an invention. Look at all the actors in the market. + Because of the
'anonimity' more actors can be pulled in this game. Even States can start buying to hold it or send it to enemy countries in order to fund uprising or buying up business. It's a currency of mass creation and mass destruction at the same time. And currency is not even the correct term as holders consider it as an investment. This bipolar effect is the secret to success if you don't buy it now, you miss the happening train.

[zimmah]

This is another reason why bitcoin can never succeed. It's like an environmental disaster covered in flowers. Complete waste of scarce energy and sold as something wonderful.

securing a large financial network is not a waste.

or did you think the banks/visa/mastercard/paypal didn't use energy?

I'd say bitcoin is a lot more energy efficient.

The system of mining even encourages using energy efficient miners because f you use old models that use more electricity you will go broke.

[makeacake]

This is another reason why bitcoin can never succeed. It's like an environmental disaster covered in flowers. Complete waste of scarce energy and sold as something wonderful.

securing a large financial network is not a waste.

The right question to ask is "what sort of an asshole would create a financial network which wastes so much energy by design?!"
If satoshi was correct in assuming that the cost of mining will gravitate toward the price of the coins mined, and we are currently paying 7-10% of entire network's total worth to secure it, and energy cost is the lion's share of total mining cost... That's like 7-10% of entire world's wealth wasted per year to "secure a financial network" (if Bitcoin becomes a global currency)
Pray for painless death?

or did you think the banks/visa/mastercard/paypal didn't use energy?

Per transaction? Incomparably less energy. Not even in the same ballpark.

I'd say bitcoin is a lot more energy efficient.

And you'd be dead wrong, too

The system of mining even encourages using energy efficient miners because f you use old models that use more electricity you will go broke.

The gear goes offline when it consumes more electricity than the price of the coins 'mined' by burning that electricity.
In other words, it is rational to mine up to the point at which (cost of wasted electricity) = (price of bitcoin mined).
If "printing" a $100 bill cost $100, wouldn't you think it absurd? But that's exactly how Bitcoin works.