who is messing with bitcoin and to what purpose?

[solid12345]

I'll just go ahead and say it, it is shit like this that keeps ordinary people out of Bitcoin. For everyone who is hodling for years its easy to say ignore it, but if you are a retailer or merchant, you can't afford to take a few thousand dollars in Bitcoin and before you can even make payroll or switch out to fiat it drops 20-30% in a matter of days. It makes no sense to use from a business standpoint unless you are cashing out every transaction to fiat immediately when receiving it.

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[Ibian]

I'll just go ahead and say it, it is shit like this that keeps ordinary people out of Bitcoin. For everyone who is hodling for years its easy to say ignore it, but if you are a retailer or merchant, you can't afford to take a few thousand dollars in Bitcoin and before you can even make payroll or switch out to fiat it drops 20-30% in a matter of days. It makes no sense to use from a business standpoint unless you are cashing out every transaction to fiat immediately when receiving it.

There are payment processors for that. You know, the ones you use every time you buy something with bitcoin in most online stores that accept it? Those ones?

[Ibian]

Floor established at 300. This is now a major and proven psychological barrier. Sub-300 is unlikely to happen again to any meaningful degree.

These things suck for people who lose money on it, but it is important to test the new limits. Next rally, whenever it happens, will go higher.

are you kidding? how is it proven? one bounce does not mean much yet.

It held and volume is at rally levels. A sharp dip after a recovery like that is unlikely for a while. If we had dropped to pre-rally levels then it would mean the market is still in bear mode, but we didn't. Bull mode is still on.

remember all the happy talk about slaying of the bearwhale (who sold at 300) on a large volume, then a sharp drop to $170 that nobody expected.

What about it?

just an example that it held then as well at high volume only to collapse some time (not long) later.
In my opinion, bitcoin price is fully unpredictable to the outside observer.

Exactly where are you going with this? I said unlikely, not impossible.

Ok, man, I was just commenting, did not mean to upset anyone.

Who's upset? I just don't see why you felt the need to keep going on that tangent for so long.

[solid12345]

I'll just go ahead and say it, it is shit like this that keeps ordinary people out of Bitcoin. For everyone who is hodling for years its easy to say ignore it, but if you are a retailer or merchant, you can't afford to take a few thousand dollars in Bitcoin and before you can even make payroll or switch out to fiat it drops 20-30% in a matter of days. It makes no sense to use from a business standpoint unless you are cashing out every transaction to fiat immediately when receiving it.

There are payment processors for that. You know, the ones you use every time you buy something with bitcoin in most online stores that accept it? Those ones?

Of course there is but it sort of defeats the purpose of Bitcoin as a currency if the only thing its good for is moving USD around.

[Biodom]

I'll just go ahead and say it, it is shit like this that keeps ordinary people out of Bitcoin. For everyone who is hodling for years its easy to say ignore it, but if you are a retailer or merchant, you can't afford to take a few thousand dollars in Bitcoin and before you can even make payroll or switch out to fiat it drops 20-30% in a matter of days. It makes no sense to use from a business standpoint unless you are cashing out every transaction to fiat immediately when receiving it.

exactly-I paid for a miner and vendor received $1392, 20 min later it would have been $1231 (and probably was for someone else's order).
I am pissed that I overpaid, ostensibly. Vendor is pissed that it got $1231 (after a plunge within minutes).
Everyone is upset-was this the goal of this UP $280, down $210 campaign?

[Biodom]

Floor established at 300. This is now a major and proven psychological barrier. Sub-300 is unlikely to happen again to any meaningful degree.

These things suck for people who lose money on it, but it is important to test the new limits. Next rally, whenever it happens, will go higher.

are you kidding? how is it proven? one bounce does not mean much yet.

It held and volume is at rally levels. A sharp dip after a recovery like that is unlikely for a while. If we had dropped to pre-rally levels then it would mean the market is still in bear mode, but we didn't. Bull mode is still on.

remember all the happy talk about slaying of the bearwhale (who sold at 300) on a large volume, then a sharp drop to $170 that nobody expected.

What about it?

just an example that it held then as well at high volume only to collapse some time (not long) later.
In my opinion, bitcoin price is fully unpredictable to the outside observer.

Exactly where are you going with this? I said unlikely, not impossible.

Ok, man, I was just commenting, did not mean to upset anyone.

Who's upset? I just don't see why you felt the need to keep going on that tangent for so long.

why?
1. because you are wrong
2. you are on my thread

[tokeweed]

who is messing with bitcoin

Whales.

and to what purpose?

Profit...  In both directions.

[Ibian]

I'll just go ahead and say it, it is shit like this that keeps ordinary people out of Bitcoin. For everyone who is hodling for years its easy to say ignore it, but if you are a retailer or merchant, you can't afford to take a few thousand dollars in Bitcoin and before you can even make payroll or switch out to fiat it drops 20-30% in a matter of days. It makes no sense to use from a business standpoint unless you are cashing out every transaction to fiat immediately when receiving it.

There are payment processors for that. You know, the ones you use every time you buy something with bitcoin in most online stores that accept it? Those ones?

Of course there is but it sort of defeats the purpose of Bitcoin as a currency if the only thing its good for is moving USD around.

Baby steps. First speculators make out like bandits, then we get worldwide adoption for the muggles. Take advantage while you still can.

[Ibian]

Floor established at 300. This is now a major and proven psychological barrier. Sub-300 is unlikely to happen again to any meaningful degree.

These things suck for people who lose money on it, but it is important to test the new limits. Next rally, whenever it happens, will go higher.

are you kidding? how is it proven? one bounce does not mean much yet.

It held and volume is at rally levels. A sharp dip after a recovery like that is unlikely for a while. If we had dropped to pre-rally levels then it would mean the market is still in bear mode, but we didn't. Bull mode is still on.

remember all the happy talk about slaying of the bearwhale (who sold at 300) on a large volume, then a sharp drop to $170 that nobody expected.

What about it?

just an example that it held then as well at high volume only to collapse some time (not long) later.
In my opinion, bitcoin price is fully unpredictable to the outside observer.

Exactly where are you going with this? I said unlikely, not impossible.

Ok, man, I was just commenting, did not mean to upset anyone.

Who's upset? I just don't see why you felt the need to keep going on that tangent for so long.

why?
1. because you are wrong
2. you are on my thread

Exactly how am I wrong?

[tabnloz]

I'll just go ahead and say it, it is shit like this that keeps ordinary people out of Bitcoin. For everyone who is hodling for years its easy to say ignore it, but if you are a retailer or merchant, you can't afford to take a few thousand dollars in Bitcoin and before you can even make payroll or switch out to fiat it drops 20-30% in a matter of days. It makes no sense to use from a business standpoint unless you are cashing out every transaction to fiat immediately when receiving it.

Don't stress about it too much, the volatility is needed. We haven't gone mainstream yet - but we've moved on from purely tech / libertarians and onto the era of VC, speculators and traders. Soon, the corporate world will move in publicly (they're already at 'blockchain') and the halving provides further scarcity.

[Amph]

Too many bitcoins in the hands of too few.

and they like to make even more, many think that when big whales sell something of their great stash, they are increasing adoption

this is utterly wrong, because they are selling to cause a panic dump every single time,, and buy back more than before, so this will lead to a greater centralization of the total coins

[gr8n8]

imagine how proud you would be if you were the one that orchestrated the pump

[Ibian]

Too many bitcoins in the hands of too few.

and they like to make even more, many think that when big whales sell something of their great stash, they are increasing adoption

this is utterly wrong, because they are selling to cause a panic dump every single time,, and buy back more than before, so this will lead to a greater centralization of the total coins

The weird part is how upset people get over that. What does it hurt me if someone has more money than me? It doesn't. The more centralization the more scarcity the higher value, and these wild swings are great for increasing my own holdings. It's nothing but benefit. Can't think of a downside aside from envy, which is a problem I don't have.

[anthonycamp]

the comming of christmas its goin to make fiat more important than btc soo it will devalues even more the bubble only occur like march to july of the halving and we need to expect 200 and then 500 prob more the fact taht people will need bitcoin to buy and sell good into net comes to a rise of btc pruchase and will higher the price into march not before

[Mickeyb]

I agree that this is a serious manipulation at its best works. I woke up to see a price of $300 and I was very disappointed. $350 was a nice new floor if this thing wasn't manipulated but $300 tells us all in my opinion.

I mean what are we, only $50 above where we started this run from. I guess Bitcoin has much more growing up to do.

[g-unit]

I agree that this is a serious manipulation at its best works. I woke up to see a price of $300 and I was very disappointed. $350 was a nice new floor if this thing wasn't manipulated but $300 tells us all in my opinion.

I mean what are we, only $50 above where we started this run from. I guess Bitcoin has much more growing up to do.

I believe this kind of manipulation will continue until we go mainstream or get much closer to it. We need more users and a bigger market cap. As this happens less and less manipulation will be possible.

[Kazimir]

Don't stress about it too much, the volatility is needed. We haven't gone mainstream yet - but we've moved on from purely tech / libertarians and onto the era of VC, speculators and traders. Soon, the corporate world will move in publicly (they're already at 'blockchain') and the halving provides further scarcity.

From a rational perspective, I agree. But meanwhile, the ridiculous dumping and panic selling continues unconditionally.

[davinchi]

I agree that this is a serious manipulation at its best works. I woke up to see a price of $300 and I was very disappointed. $350 was a nice new floor if this thing wasn't manipulated but $300 tells us all in my opinion.

I mean what are we, only $50 above where we started this run from. I guess Bitcoin has much more growing up to do.

I believe this kind of manipulation will continue until we go mainstream or get much closer to it. We need more users and a bigger market cap. As this happens less and less manipulation will be possible.

Yes the kind of money losing for only possible with small market cap commodity. That is the reason main trading houses  are not interested in investing into bitcoin. Once bitcoin hit into mainstream and having very big market We can not see this kind of bumping and dumping.

[RodeoX]

I don't think bitcoin is being messed with. This is just what a free and unregulated market looks like. The stock market of the 1800's was wild like this also. If you want a steady and predictable market just introduce controls. But is that what we really want?

Remember that bitcoin is not your friend and was not created to make you rich. It is what it is, and users will act in their own self interest. Not for the common good and certainly not to help out with your aspirations. 

[Denker]

When you stop short term price speculating these minor fluctuations will mean nothing to you.

Exactly this. I haven't moved any of my coins or money during this crazy run. Because I don't plan to sell any coin, because I'm in for long, and I knew that a rise with that kind pace which we saw means a dump will happen.And I expected we will see a solid bottom around 350 and then I planned to accumulate a bit more. But then suddenly the chart continued to go down and I thought it is better to wait. And here we are.Close to 300 and still unsure if we can hold it. I will wait another 24 hours to see how things will develop.