Quicker you realize that someone is smarter than you, the smarter you are

[deeplink]

This Nobel prize winning study was quoted on this forum before (thanks MPOE-PR) and describes in detail the Dunninger-Kruger effect.

It concludes that individuals who are incompetent in specific fields of knowledge are less able to recognize competence in other individuals. In other words, the quicker you realize that someone is smarter than you, the smarter you yourself are.

It shows that incompetent individuals in general overestimate their abilities compared to their peers and competent individuals in general underestimate themselves.

The study also points out that incompetent individuals are less able to improve their own competence and correct this self-overestimation by learning from their (more competent) peers.

Another, unrelated, recent study at Stanford University mentions that humanity as a whole is getting dumber.

Some interesting points to consider, especially when combining these studies, because it may explain the causes for the effects that affect all of us in many aspects of our lives.

Let me illustrate with an example: In a democracy we depend upon the competence of society as a whole to make the right decisions to solve our problems. If too many individuals in society are not aware of their own incompetence and fail to correct their mistaken views by learning from competent individuals, they tend to make wrong decisions over and over again and problems will become worse. And if society as a whole is getting dumber (= less competent) this effect will only increase. That paints a very dark picture for the world.

I would like to hear your opinions and interpretations and consenting or disagreeing examples of this effect:

1) In your personal life and at work
2) On this forum
3) In politics and economics

[johnwhitestar]

There is a lot of brainwashing made through every possible mean of information to make people think they are unapt which steals their happiness.

[ElectricMucus]

Interesting topic. Although I am not that fond of psychology, in particular psycho-analysis which makes the assumption that the an individual can be objective enough to do measurements through conversation.

I would like to hear your opinions and interpretations and consenting or disagreeing examples of this effect:

1) In your personal life and at work
2) On this forum
3) In politics and economics

1) I find it difficult to concentrate more than 10 minutes which s problematic for things like math (Planning to study it but I failed so far but still think I can do it even then.)
2) Something I call 'Bitcoinism' - The belief that bitcoin is to assimilate the worlds economy through ongoing 'early adoption'
3) The failure to realize the effects of compound interest.

[cunicula]

Another, unrelated, recent study at Stanford University mentions that //newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/15/research-suggests-humans-are-evolving-to-be-dumber/]humanity as a whole is getting dumber

This research is complete shit. Don't link to it.

[hashman]

Another, unrelated, recent study at Stanford University mentions that //newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/15/research-suggests-humans-are-evolving-to-be-dumber/]humanity as a whole is getting dumber

This research is complete shit. Don't link to it.

He didn't.  The link was to a Time magazine writeup. 
However your out of hand dismissal signalled to me there could be something interesting in there so I pulled up the pdf (article #1 of 2 by Crabtree). 

I would wager that if an average citizen from Athens of
1000 BC were to appear suddenly among us, he or she
would be among the brightest and most intellectually alive
of our colleagues and companions, with a good memory, a
broad range of ideas, and a clear-sighted view of important
issues. [snip]
Taken together, the large number of genes required for
intellectual and emotional function, and the unique sus-
ceptibility of these genes to loss of heterozygosity, lead me
to conclude that we, as a species, are surprisingly intellec-
tually fragile and perhaps reached a peak 2000–6000 years
ago. But if we are losing our intellectual abilities, how did
we acquire them in the first place? This will be the topic of
the next section [15].

OK maybe you're right I wasn't hugely impressed with their arguments but the discussion is about genetics so I should give them a break, but seriously to have a discussion about intelligence without mentioning exposure of children to television?  The guy from 1000BC athens didn't grow up spending all his time in a uniform temperature rectangular box eating GMO-NPK-Os while his brain was in permanent alpha-hypnosis.  Is that worth mentioning?       

[RodeoX]

Interesting idea. I suppose that I could be very dumb and still enjoy the fruits of humanity. I wonder what percent of the population could be dumb before things start to slide?
Also, I can't help but think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk

[deeplink]

Interesting idea. I suppose that I could be very dumb and still enjoy the fruits of humanity. I wonder what percent of the population could be dumb before things start to slide?

Sure, being "dumb" and enjoying yourself are not mutually exclusive. If anything I would argue the opposite: Smart people often worry too much. "Ignorance is bliss."

What percentage to start the slide? I don't know but I am convinced that we've already been sliding for a long time. The question I am asking myself is: can it be stopped/reversed and how?

Also, I can't help but think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk

It could have been done better, but that movie Idiocracy got me interested in the concept.

"By the creator of Beavis and Butthead" lol very ironic

[Lethos]

The initial statement, I do agree with, recognising intelligence in others is certainly a sign of intelligence to ones self, thus is it is a pretty good precursor in most instances, but it is a complex assessment, not so easily simplified.

The concept of Intelligence as well as how it has been measured has changed a lot over the years, if you were to look into how it has changed over the past few hundred years. The Gap between the lowest and highest has also changed, at least in first world countries due to better education, for everyone, not just the "privileged".

I disagree that on average we are getting dumber, the bar is just set higher for every generation after our own.
Most of my family comes from a engineer type background, technical, logical and highly mathematical orientated in the careers they choose;
In my early teens I discover while talking to my parents and grandparents generation, the point in their lives they learnt the mathematics I was done at the time, they learnt 1-2 years after I did each generation back. All were smart and learnt exactly the same core mathematics as I did, just expectations of when they were capable of learning it changed even as little as 1 and 2 generations back.

That from that what you will.

From my understanding the only rationale behind why intelligence is counted as going down, is due to a slowing down on achievements that can be contributed to our intelligence as a race. Just like with Bitcoin, I do believe they didn't take into account for an increase in difficulty. 2000-6000 years ago, being smart and doing something with that intelligence was probably a lot easier than if you were to have the same individual try understand nuclear engineering or any of the modern day high level sciences. Much of what was considered marvolous and ground breaking you probably learnt in school before you were 15, yet it would of been some ones life time achievement 2000-6000 years ago. I imagine the same could be true in another few thousand years, with what is done today and took someone an entire life time to figure out.

[myrkul]

Just like with Bitcoin, I do believe they didn't take into account for an increase in difficulty.

Heh.... At what point do you figure "CPU Mining" will become obsolete? When will our meat brains no longer be capable of grasping all the concepts needed to progress?

[deeplink]

There is a lot of brainwashing made through every possible mean of information to make people think they are unapt which steals their happiness.

To me happiness is irrelevant in this context. The other thing you are saying is quite interesting, but it sounds like you are defending those people.

There is a lot of brainwashing being done by mainstream media and politicians. I give you that, but people that still only rely on those one-sided sources of information and thus fail to familiarize themselves with other opinions and knowledge illustrate exactly the points I am talking about. They are incompetent in their ability to gather and interpret information.

Sad as it is, these people are probably even more unapt then they think, because incompetent people tend to overestimate their own abilities.

[johnwhitestar]

From my point of view every human being is a genius, any attempt to discourage his faith in himself is a kind of evil action, and unfortunately there is a lot of sad people on the Earth, which doesn't make them happy and they don't deserve to be so.  

[bb113]

The initial statement, I do agree with, recognising intelligence in others is certainly a sign of intelligence to ones self, thus is it is a pretty good precursor in most instances, but it is a complex assessment, not so easily simplified.

The concept of Intelligence as well as how it has been measured has changed a lot over the years, if you were to look into how it has changed over the past few hundred years. The Gap between the lowest and highest has also changed, at least in first world countries due to better education, for everyone, not just the "privileged".

I disagree that on average we are getting dumber, the bar is just set higher for every generation after our own.
Most of my family comes from a engineer type background, technical, logical and highly mathematical orientated in the careers they choose;
In my early teens I discover while talking to my parents and grandparents generation, the point in their lives they learnt the mathematics I was done at the time, they learnt 1-2 years after I did each generation back. All were smart and learnt exactly the same core mathematics as I did, just expectations of when they were capable of learning it changed even as little as 1 and 2 generations back.

That from that what you will.

From my understanding the only rationale behind why intelligence is counted as going down, is due to a slowing down on achievements that can be contributed to our intelligence as a race. Just like with Bitcoin, I do believe they didn't take into account for an increase in difficulty. 2000-6000 years ago, being smart and doing something with that intelligence was probably a lot easier than if you were to have the same individual try understand nuclear engineering or any of the modern day high level sciences. Much of what was considered marvolous and ground breaking you probably learnt in school before you were 15, yet it would of been some ones life time achievement 2000-6000 years ago. I imagine the same could be true in another few thousand years, with what is done today and took someone an entire life time to figure out.

This is interesting to me. The lower hanging fruit has been picked. To pick the higher hanging fruit requires a different approach than has worked before... we are at the point where individual and oligarchical planning is not enough to proceed forward, we should try embracing crowd intelligence. I don't think the tech or general awareness of how information travels and mutates is at that point yet though. Maybe in a generation it will be, right now people need to work on developing the tools necessary to facilitate this transformation.

[Lethos]

Depends if you see it as advancement (improvement to our intelligence) to use technology to aid our brain functions via cybernetics, or do you see as us becoming lazier. That is potentially where our future lays within my life time for there to be any major differences to our intellectual capacities.

As a Programmer and Engineer I programmed many things to do things for me, so I had to understand the complexities fully to build it to do that function. To me, I done all the hard work, just as much as if it was done just mentally or "by hand", but with the advantage of not doing the repetitive stuff, or making it easier to do again.
The view point would not be shared if they didn't have the same involvement and was just given this technology.

It is the same retort I used to teachers in school when I became the only individual who used a PDA in my Adv. Math classes.
I programmed a lot of tools, programs from basic math formulas, I wasn't allowed to use any that did it all for me.

However as much as we might improve on a individual level, our social intelligence and our general ability to get along with each other has a long way to go. There is still a lot of misuse of our collective intelligence used against our own race. Until that improves we can't say we are really are improving overall.

[dank]

Everyone is just as smart as each other.  Some people are just less aware and therefor seemingly lacking intellect.  The good thing is anyone can increase their awareness, simply by doing so.  Become self observant.

[myrkul]

Become self observant.

(By this he means gaze deeply into your navel)

[dank]

However you find your consciousness, love.  We learn by changing our perception, after all.  When we see words on the screen, we are changing our perception, visually.  When we talk, our senses perceive energy that we understand as information, logic.  If you're doing the same thing over and over, you're not changing your perception, it's good to try new things and live life freely to learn and become more aware.

[3btc]

Another, unrelated, recent study at Stanford University mentions that humanity as a whole is getting dumber.

It's obvious: One could think the more people
-> the more intelligence there is
-> the better it gets on this on this planet.
Since it doesn't get better we safely assume
-> intelligence must be a fixed amount.
Now, if population increases
-> everyone gets less intelligence. Simple, eh?

Not soo serious 

[TraderTimm]

"Idiocracy" was right.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/

That is why I'm not surprised when people don't "get" bitcoin. It takes critical reasoning and a mash of different disciplines to understand deeply.

[deeplink]

The initial statement, I do agree with, recognising intelligence in others is certainly a sign of intelligence to ones self, thus is it is a pretty good precursor in most instances, but it is a complex assessment, not so easily simplified.

The concept of Intelligence as well as how it has been measured has changed a lot over the years, if you were to look into how it has changed over the past few hundred years. The Gap between the lowest and highest has also changed, at least in first world countries due to better education, for everyone, not just the "privileged".

I disagree that on average we are getting dumber, the bar is just set higher for every generation after our own.
Most of my family comes from a engineer type background, technical, logical and highly mathematical orientated in the careers they choose;
In my early teens I discover while talking to my parents and grandparents generation, the point in their lives they learnt the mathematics I was done at the time, they learnt 1-2 years after I did each generation back. All were smart and learnt exactly the same core mathematics as I did, just expectations of when they were capable of learning it changed even as little as 1 and 2 generations back.

That from that what you will.

From my understanding the only rationale behind why intelligence is counted as going down, is due to a slowing down on achievements that can be contributed to our intelligence as a race. Just like with Bitcoin, I do believe they didn't take into account for an increase in difficulty. 2000-6000 years ago, being smart and doing something with that intelligence was probably a lot easier than if you were to have the same individual try understand nuclear engineering or any of the modern day high level sciences. Much of what was considered marvolous and ground breaking you probably learnt in school before you were 15, yet it would of been some ones life time achievement 2000-6000 years ago. I imagine the same could be true in another few thousand years, with what is done today and took someone an entire life time to figure out.

This is interesting to me. The lower hanging fruit has been picked. To pick the higher hanging fruit requires a different approach than has worked before... we are at the point where individual and oligarchical planning is not enough to proceed forward, we should try embracing crowd intelligence. I don't think the tech or general awareness of how information travels and mutates is at that point yet though. Maybe in a generation it will be, right now people need to work on developing the tools necessary to facilitate this transformation.

That is interesting. Maybe collective wisdom is a way to move society forward in spite of the average individual intelligence going down. I am not sure if that approach could work for break-through innovation tough. Unless we find a way to physically connect our minds, great ideas still have to come from the mind of one individual. Once the idea has sparked, the collective can jump in and evolve it.

[deeplink]

Depends if you see it as advancement (improvement to our intelligence) to use technology to aid our brain functions via cybernetics, or do you see as us becoming lazier. That is potentially where our future lays within my life time for there to be any major differences to our intellectual capacities.

As a Programmer and Engineer I programmed many things to do things for me, so I had to understand the complexities fully to build it to do that function. To me, I done all the hard work, just as much as if it was done just mentally or "by hand", but with the advantage of not doing the repetitive stuff, or making it easier to do again.
The view point would not be shared if they didn't have the same involvement and was just given this technology.

It is the same retort I used to teachers in school when I became the only individual who used a PDA in my Adv. Math classes.
I programmed a lot of tools, programs from basic math formulas, I wasn't allowed to use any that did it all for me.

However as much as we might improve on a individual level, our social intelligence and our general ability to get along with each other has a long way to go. There is still a lot of misuse of our collective intelligence used against our own race. Until that improves we can't say we are really are improving overall.

... And artificial intelligence may indeed be another way to move society forward (for better or for worse) in spite of decreasing average intelligence.