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Author Topic: Open Source Internet... Soon?!  (Read 2943 times)
mrNightowl
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June 06, 2011, 03:00:25 AM
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With recent attention of bitcoin, i find myself remember conversations from years past.  Being a ham radio operator many of my friends in that realm have dabbled in encrypted higher baud rate packet radio over VHF.  Because of this it makes me think with newer technologies coming every year, how long will it be before we have a Global Open Source Internet or Decentralized Internet as it may be? 

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zhalox
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June 06, 2011, 03:01:59 AM
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There are many implementations of this already, such as FreeNet, Tor, etc.

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June 06, 2011, 03:07:06 AM
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There are many implementations of this already, such as FreeNet, Tor, etc.

Well the problem with those are they all still require a ISP.  I'm talking about an entire new network aside from the main internet.

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June 06, 2011, 03:07:52 AM
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There are many implementations of this already, such as FreeNet, Tor, etc.

You missed the point, I think. None of those replace the physical link layer.

Look into wireless mesh networking.

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mrNightowl
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June 06, 2011, 03:19:13 AM
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There are many implementations of this already, such as FreeNet, Tor, etc.

You missed the point, I think. None of those replace the physical link layer.

Look into wireless mesh networking.

Yeah thats basically what I'm talking about.  It starts out with a bunch of people in 1 city doing it.  Then it progresses to surrounding areas.  It would be interesting to see a bunch of enthusiasts create a coast to coast network like that.

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June 06, 2011, 03:47:09 AM
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It makes me cringe everytime someone says Wireless Mesh networks will be the future of the Internet. The fact is, Wireless Mesh networks don't scale well, especially over long distances (coast to coast).
It takes time to transmit a packet from node to node. The latency involved in transmitting a packet long distances over a mesh network would make todays internet unusable. There's a reason the Internet has backbone providers, their job is to send a packet over long distances with as few "hops" as possible.

A wireless mesh internet would be like going back to using the telegraph.
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June 06, 2011, 03:50:08 AM
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It makes me cringe everytime someone says Wireless Mesh networks will be the future of the Internet. The fact is, Wireless Mesh networks don't scale well, especially over long distances (coast to coast).
It takes time to transmit a packet from node to node. The latency involved in transmitting a packet long distances over a mesh network would make todays internet unusable. There's a reason the Internet has backbone providers, their job is to send a packet over long distances with as few "hops" as possible.

A wireless mesh internet would be like going back to using the telegraph.

This is true. But it would also be better than nothing.

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mrNightowl
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June 06, 2011, 03:55:50 AM
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It makes me cringe everytime someone says Wireless Mesh networks will be the future of the Internet. The fact is, Wireless Mesh networks don't scale well, especially over long distances (coast to coast).
It takes time to transmit a packet from node to node. The latency involved in transmitting a packet long distances over a mesh network would make todays internet unusable. There's a reason the Internet has backbone providers, their job is to send a packet over long distances with as few "hops" as possible.

A wireless mesh internet would be like going back to using the telegraph.

Yeah I get what you mean there.  Thats why I made mention of future technology.  Subspace communications?  Grin Who knows.

But honestly as a personal pref for myself.  If it had even ISDN speeds I would be happy with that.  I don't need all the fancy flash loaded websites and all that.

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June 06, 2011, 06:28:09 AM
 #9

There are many implementations of this already, such as FreeNet, Tor, etc.

You missed the point, I think. None of those replace the physical link layer.

Look into wireless mesh networking.

I understand what you mean, but it seems that reinventing the wheel could be wasteful since we already have a network...  Besides, the U.S. government regulates communication frequencies via the FCC, etc. unless I'm mistaken.

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June 06, 2011, 06:48:15 AM
 #10

1. Buy a box of Mesh Potatoes
2. Go to supermarket
3. Hand Potatoes to housewives
4. Whisper "Mesh with me"
5. Huh

More seriously:

1. Buy Potatoes
2. Set up a booth at a conference/fair with interested folks
3. Give away enough Potatoes to build a local network
4. Sell remaining Potatoes because they are worth a lot more now that there is a network to link into

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June 06, 2011, 06:59:09 AM
 #11

With recent attention of bitcoin, i find myself remember conversations from years past.  Being a ham radio operator many of my friends in that realm have dabbled in encrypted higher baud rate packet radio over VHF.  Because of this it makes me think with newer technologies coming every year, how long will it be before we have a Global Open Source Internet or Decentralized Internet as it may be? 

http://guifi.net Check the map to see how big the network is.
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June 06, 2011, 07:05:44 AM
 #12

It makes me cringe everytime someone says Wireless Mesh networks will be the future of the Internet. The fact is, Wireless Mesh networks don't scale well, especially over long distances (coast to coast).
It takes time to transmit a packet from node to node. The latency involved in transmitting a packet long distances over a mesh network would make todays internet unusable. There's a reason the Internet has backbone providers, their job is to send a packet over long distances with as few "hops" as possible.

A wireless mesh internet would be like going back to using the telegraph.
Well, it would surely be a step back in terms of latency but with electronics getting faster all the time, optical mesh networks (free space optics), a few well placed and good connected longer distance links and more intelligent routing algorithms I think it could be quite efficient!

Also don't forget that with networks like Freenet or similar P2P technologies, you would have content replicated all over the net and therefore might not have to pass that many hops anyway. Hosting on centralized servers would probably be a thing of the past and it would be a good thing for many reasons.

Anyway: I'm all for it!
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June 06, 2011, 03:22:18 PM
 #13

There is something going on, but its hard to say how it will evolve.
example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsukuku

We will  meet in not-so-distant future.
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June 06, 2011, 03:38:49 PM
 #14

I am currently reviewing to take my  technician class amateur radio license which is not hard to pass and plan to set up a self healing HSMM/Hinternet Mesh Network with other amateur radio users in my area including some family members for communications and experimental purposes.  You can set up HSMM using cheap commodity access points/wifi routers like Linksys WRT54Gs. Over HSMM you can then set up a server to host rudimentary Web, email, chat, voice (VOIP/Asterisk), bitcoin and video that everyone can access.  I plan on setting up routing using batman-advanced which I have set up and is pretty easy to manage.  Also I think we could set up backhaul links over VPN on the Internet between mesh sites until a faster backhaul could be eventually built over highspeed RF, fiber, copper or some other backhaul method.

http://hsmm-mesh.org/

http://www.open-mesh.org/wiki/batman-adv

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhsmm-mesh.org%2Fimages%2Fhsmm_docs%2FHSMM-Update-Hamcom2010.pdf&rct=j&q=HSMM-Update-Hamcom2010.pdf&ei=pfzDTeT7CMeUtwfZhIikBA&usg=AFQjCNGRPjHxX6Heah0r2N3929DMcTXftg&cad=rja

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June 06, 2011, 05:39:07 PM
 #15

I have been following this project for some time
http://www.theconnective.net/
but I haven't seen much progress on that front yet.

What would be interesting is to see if Software Defined Radio would bring any new possibilities. If we could talk to our neighbors over radio without the intervention of any ISPs that would already be a great step towards a free citizens internet.
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June 06, 2011, 06:08:32 PM
 #16

Herp Derp radio is so old-skuul.... how about open optical communications?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA

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June 06, 2011, 06:13:12 PM
 #17

This is a great idea! Where can I purchase the device?
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June 06, 2011, 06:19:37 PM
 #18

What you are looking at are mesh networks. The issue, as the state of art, is latency. That is the only thing keeping the ISPs a job.

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June 06, 2011, 06:32:40 PM
 #19

In my home city, we had civil networks built from coaxial cable for about 7 years, then we switched to UTP and FTP so we had basically speeds of 2-3Mb/s between peers, which was sufficient 6 years ago. At some point, we started discussing re-engineering infrared transmitters (for up to 300m points) and laser transmitters (for up to 1km) and use cheap parts or actual optical media converters strapped on a generic switch board. Unfortunately, commercial networks started gaining ground, they split the neighborhoods around the city and finally got bought up by the biggest national ISP. The Czechs advanced further... We don't have any civil networks. We don't need them either, the ISP gives up to 50Mb/s metro speeds.

Anywho, for the wireless communications (think fiber optics without the fiber, using only 1W of power, which could be supplied by solar panels) check google for "free space optics" or "Free-space optical communication".

And indeed IPv6 combined with different types of meshes could decentralize peer to peer communications as we know them. We can have overhead blimps or kites or UAVs performing the task of mini-satellites, directional WiMAX for up to 35km, low range low cost links as presented above and so on. Only then can we achieve peer to peer governments...
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June 06, 2011, 09:50:53 PM
 #20

Does anybody know of some successor to this project? Ronja is already 10 years old and 10Mbit/s doesn't quite cut it anymore. Commercial FSO devices easily reach multi-gigabit speeds nowadays so it should be possible to get at least 100Mbit/s with cheap components.
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