to Europeans: can you please try explain to me why your countries accept Muslims

[avw1982]

I'll bet you anything that muslims are to blame,

and ill bet you anything of those 2 million muslims marching into europe now, at least 10 000 are hard core Jihadis

This was a warm up event for europe

want a bitcoin bet? that this was muslims? lets do it.

Friend I am Muslim only. Please don't all Muslims with same point of view. In every country in every culture people are there in good views and bad views So please don't tell all Islamic friends not fit for European culture and all. just we are humans only

[saddampbuh]

because jews have brainwashed us into suicidal self hatred

[dukeneptun]

ISIS terrorists had French passport. They aren't from regular refugees. So, what's the point here? You want Middle Age religion wars again?

[Spendulus]

ISIS terrorists had French passport. They aren't from regular refugees. So, what's the point here? You want Middle Age religion wars again?

You HAVE a Middle Age religion war, that is exactly what radical Muslims have.  And it's pointed at you and me.

[flagpara]

Hi guys, first as a French living in Paris i appreciate your concerns and ind words.

But please don't confuse everything, of what i read you're all suggesting two things: let the people carry weapons and get immigrants out.

On the first one i'll say that i'm pretty sure armed population would even be more dangerous on a terorist attack. Lot's of people didn't really understand what happened, some citizens fought others thinking they were part of the attack. It was a very unclear situation, i'm sure that if people were allowed to have guns, people would have killed more innocents than terrorists. Everyone was afraid and confused, you do reaaaaaaally stupid things when you're afraid.
And most of the damages were done by bombs and the first shots at Bataclan (the place where half victims were). Armed people wouldn't have done shit because they openned the gates of the room where the concert took place, screamed and shot in the public. They killed nearly 50 persons in just a few seconds, nobody would have reacted fast enough to stop them.

So no, we don't have guns and we don't want some thanks.

And for the immigrants... I'm not saying it has no importance, but people saying we should close the borders are stupid. France is huge, and so is Europe, terrorists are maybe hiding in the refugees groups but it doesn't matter, we just can't control our borders. Dozens of thousands of Mexican goes trough the USA borders and it's the fucing biggest and most secured border in the world! How do you want to control European borders??? You just can't. In France only it's 4 000 km of ground borders, and i'm not talking about the seas or the ocean...

It's terrible but sadly enough you can't really defend yourself. Which doesn't mean you can't attack though...

[bryant.coleman]

ISIS terrorists had French passport. They aren't from regular refugees. So, what's the point here? You want Middle Age religion wars again?

According to the latest reports from France, at least one Syrian passport has been recovered from the bodies of the slain terrorists. That means that at least some of them were recent immigrants to the European Union from the Middle East (either Syrian citizens, or other nationals using stolen Syrian passports to reach the EU).

[jasonjm]

ISIS terrorists had French passport. They aren't from regular refugees. So, what's the point here? You want Middle Age religion wars again?

That makes my point even more strongly. I am saying that Muslims are not compatible with Western civilization, as a whole they will never integrate, and even letting 1 into any western country is a mistake. But Europe reckons inviting millions is a great idea.

Also I don't believe every single one was a French passport holder.

Not only are the refugees a threat, their children's children will be a threat. No integration and a point of view when taken to fundamentalist Islam levels that all non Muslims need to either become Muslim or die is a setup for disaster.

I would have zero questions or concerns  about Europe helping those refugees if the were atheists, Jews, Buddhists etc, and of any skin color.

[J. J. Phillips]

I'm not European, but I have spoken to some who are sympathetic to settling millions of refugees. They say things like, "They're just like us -- doctors, lawyers." When jihadist attacks are brought up they say things like, "That's just a one-off, very rare, nothing to worry about."

I suspect there are some Europeans who think importing millions of new Muslims is maybe sort of a bad idea, based on, you know, centuries of Muslim attacks against the West, including occupations of Eastern European countries. (The kind of people who recognize the phrase "Gates of Vienna" and know what it refers to.) But most of them remain silent because there may be serious social and possibly legal side effects from talking about these things. It's possible a dangerous party like the Front National could win elections in France as a consequence of the multiple jihadi attacks on France the past few years, combined with the "refugee" crisis invasion. It's probably too late to save France, but I suppose the Front National could kick out millions of Muslims into the welcoming arms of Germany -- a country that wants to commit suicide and frankly deserves to get what it wants.

Edit: Above I refered to the Front National as a "dangerous party". While I do believe they are potentially dangerous, I don't want to give the impression they're anywhere near as dangerous as the homocidal jihadi minority in France. Without a Churchhill to save France, Marine Le Penn might be the safest bet.

[J. J. Phillips]

ISIS terrorists had French passport. They aren't from regular refugees. So, what's the point here? You want Middle Age religion wars again?

You HAVE a Middle Age religion war, that is exactly what radical Muslims have.  And it's pointed at you and me.

Yes. Except this time only one side has the will to fight, and that's the side that will win. So "war" probably isn't the right term.

[J. J. Phillips]

ISIS terrorists had French passport. They aren't from regular refugees. So, what's the point here? You want Middle Age religion wars again?

That makes my point even more strongly. I am saying that Muslims are not compatible with Western civilization, as a whole they will never integrate, and even letting 1 into any western country is a mistake. But Europe reckons inviting millions is a great idea.

Also I don't believe every single one was a French passport holder.

Not only are the refugees a threat, their children's children will be a threat. No integration and a point of view when taken to fundamentalist Islam levels that all non Muslims need to either become Muslim or die is a setup for disaster.

I would have zero questions or concerns  about Europe helping those refugees if the were atheists, Jews, Buddhists etc, and of any skin color.

If European countries wanted to help real refugees who live in danger in the Islamic World, they should accept ex-Muslims (those who've left the Muslim faith). As a bonus, it would be importing people who aren't total morons who blindly follow a 7th century delusional illiterate pedophile warrior.

[criptix]

ISIS terrorists had French passport. They aren't from regular refugees. So, what's the point here? You want Middle Age religion wars again?

That makes my point even more strongly. I am saying that Muslims are not compatible with Western civilization, as a whole they will never integrate, and even letting 1 into any western country is a mistake. But Europe reckons inviting millions is a great idea.

Also I don't believe every single one was a French passport holder.

Not only are the refugees a threat, their children's children will be a threat. No integration and a point of view when taken to fundamentalist Islam levels that all non Muslims need to either become Muslim or die is a setup for disaster.

I would have zero questions or concerns  about Europe helping those refugees if the were atheists, Jews, Buddhists etc, and of any skin color.

Your problem is that almost all of what you believe is based on superstition and wrong facts.
There is no need to discuss anything if the person you are talking with is not interested in a factual discussion.

This is like the scientific proof for god thread.

But nevertheless one of the main reasons we need immigrants is because we have a huge negative birthrate. It the end it is just a pure economical question.

Also i can promise you that we have more inland psycopaths then terrorist refugees for sure - taking every bet here.

[Joel_Jantsen]

So you read about an attack and now 100% of the muslims are to blame? Are you really that stupid?

Europe gives about humanity not about religion. They have seen how religion can corrupt people in the crusades.

I hope they will implement a better screening procedure, try more to 'Help' refufees in their neighbour countries so when the problem is over they can return.

Just so you know,the results came out and they turned out to be Muslims .You have anything to say ? Why is it that anywhere a bomb blast,terror attack takes place only muslims are seemed to be involved? Why there is a training provided for all these muslim suicide bombers in Pakistan ? Why the people who blew 911 were muslims? Why the people who attacked Mumbai were Muslims? All those involved in attacks came in as form of refugees or sneaked in through coasts.The fact is everyone of them is a Muslim.Now please take your time out to answer me.

[jasonjm]

Hi guys, first as a French living in Paris i appreciate your concerns and ind words.

But please don't confuse everything, of what i read you're all suggesting two things: let the people carry weapons and get immigrants out.

On the first one i'll say that i'm pretty sure armed population would even be more dangerous on a terorist attack. Lot's of people didn't really understand what happened, some citizens fought others thinking they were part of the attack. It was a very unclear situation, i'm sure that if people were allowed to have guns, people would have killed more innocents than terrorists. Everyone was afraid and confused, you do reaaaaaaally stupid things when you're afraid.
And most of the damages were done by bombs and the first shots at Bataclan (the place where half victims were). Armed people wouldn't have done shit because they openned the gates of the room where the concert took place, screamed and shot in the public. They killed nearly 50 persons in just a few seconds, nobody would have reacted fast enough to stop them.

So no, we don't have guns and we don't want some thanks.

And for the immigrants... I'm not saying it has no importance, but people saying we should close the borders are stupid. France is huge, and so is Europe, terrorists are maybe hiding in the refugees groups but it doesn't matter, we just can't control our borders. Dozens of thousands of Mexican goes trough the USA borders and it's the fucing biggest and most secured border in the world! How do you want to control European borders??? You just can't. In France only it's 4 000 km of ground borders, and i'm not talking about the seas or the ocean...

It's terrible but sadly enough you can't really defend yourself. Which doesn't mean you can't attack though...

Ok so you can't stop all of them coming in, but with some effort you could stop 90 percent, and the other 10 percent you sure as hell can send back home.

Get rid of your dumb asylum laws and get serious about deportation.

And Btw I have never heard of a Mexican person blow up anything or attack random people in the USA for religious purposes as far as I know. So it's a very different set of circumstances.

The scary thing is one of these terror groups is going to get a wmd eventually and they will use it without hesitation.

[criptix]

US-Mexican drugwar maybe?

U guys usually have a phd in googling what happened?

[RealMalatesta]

Well, I can try to give you an answer - my answer - but I believe it will not be a short one.

First of all: Europe had in the past decades again and again "waves" of people coming here, looking for a better live.

In the 60s, it was the Italians. And we all were warned that they will eat our cats, rape our girls and make extensive use of their knives. Nothing of all of this was true. Instead, they brought spaghetti, tortelloni, pizza - and prosperity, because they worked their asses off.

Then came Turks. We were warned how they will use pistols and change our culture, they would rape our girls and deal drugs. Nothing of all this was true - instead they brought kebab and other goodies, - and prosperity, because they worked their asses off.

Then came people from Sri Lanka. We were warned they would rape our girls, deal with drugs and change our whole culture. Nothing of this was true - instead they brought a lot of new food, and hundred of restaurants wouldn't have survived if these guys wouldn't have worked their asses off. You guess it: They brought properity.

In the 90s came people from the Balkan. Oh, how we were warned: They would - of course - rape our girls, steal everything, bring a new culture with a muslim background, this destroying our culture. Nothing of this was true - instead they brought new food, new drinks, new clubs  - and prosperity.

It IS true, though, that with every group of these cultures came people who were not good. Who raped. Who stole. Who murdered. Just as it was before. Only that all the sudden, people started to ask "where do they come from".

Now let's look at the people from the Balkans. As a matter of facts, I was a lot in Kosovo, Kroatia and Serbia during the war. You can believe me: This war was different than everything you thought you'd see. It was the most brutal of all wars I had ever seen.

I was a volunteer to evac people from Bihac. I went there with my truck, just before Christmas 94, and loaded this truck with every"thing" I could: Kids, women, men, dead, alive, dying. In such a situation, religion never is an issue. The people need help, and that's the only thing you can offer at the moment.

Many of the people from the Balkan returned once they had the impression their home is safe. Others just became ordinary people. You wouldn't know that they orignially come from the east if you wouldn't know. They look like you, they talk like you, they are just like all of us. Most of them drink beer and other alcoholic beverages, but don't eat pig. That is, in most cases, the only way how you can tell they believe in something else than the majority here.

They are just like you and me - maybe a bit more patriotic than I am - but they are patriotic for MY country, the country they are living in.

Now there's the war in Syria. Have you ever had kids? Have you ever been in a war? Would you stay there with your kids? I understand that a lot of people come to Europe. And yes, this may be risky because some of the refugees are convinced that they have to install a state of war in our countries, too.

So what. I believe in me, in the people living here, in the people who come here, to fight those guys. Just this morning, my son's friend from Macedonia came by. He is muslim. We all were watching the latest news from Paris, he was crying, asking why these people are doing this.

Since I can remember, I fought neonazis.

If you talk to them and then talk to radical islamists, you'll see that there is basically no difference between them all. They have a wicked mindset, and they all are all but normal. We, our society, will be able to deal with it.

Terror means that they want to spread fear. They may, from time to time, be successfull with this. But I also remember how I, as a kid, was afraid to go to the shopping mall because of the Baader-Meinhof-Gang. But from a certain point on, I just decided that it is me who has to say where I go and where I don't - and not terrorists.

The same is true for today. I will fight every terrorist with all possible means - but hell, if someone is in need of a shelter, of a place which is safe, I'll do everything I can that this person gets it. Never looking at the color of the skin, the age, the sex, the religion. That is what makes us human.

[jasonjm]

Not a bad answer.

I can definitely see your point of view. Belief in the premise that humans are essentially nice people and we are all the same in the end. 

I still think you will be proven wrong over time, but at least the answer you provided is a real answer.

[bryant.coleman]

If European countries wanted to help real refugees who live in danger in the Islamic World, they should accept ex-Muslims (those who've left the Muslim faith). As a bonus, it would be importing people who aren't total morons who blindly follow a 7th century delusional illiterate pedophile warrior.

It is true that non-Muslims face more risks when compared to the Muslims in the Middle East. But how will you find out whether a person is ex-Muslim or not? People will lie that they are ex-Muslim, just to gain an EU residence permit. I have heard of incidents from Germany, where Muslim immigrants nominally convert to Christianity before submitting their asylum claims. In the claim, they will argue that they have left Islam, and therefore they face death if they are sent back to their home country. But once the claim is processed, these people will rejoin the Islamic faith.

[gurcani]

How do you decide who is a muslim btw?

Do you assume based on their birthplace?
Take my case. I am an atheist born in Istanbul. My turkish identity card has "muslim" written on it. I work as a researcher in a prestigious french university, and I contribute rather positively to the french society (I had many students, postdocs etc.). So you want france to kick me out, or not let me and my family into france based on what is written on my identity card? Very smart. I hate islam more than you do, believe me...

Or do you just ask? Do you think people who have no problem killing innocent people indiscriminately will have any problem lying to you about their religion? Muslims even have a word for it, it's called takiyye (in turkish spelling anyway). You are allowed to lie to further your religious goals.

So the rational thing is to not approach with a broad brush. And to try to identify who is dangerous and who is not, instead of trying to identify who is muslim and who is not, which doesn't immediately translate to violence or lack thereof anyway.

I guess this is the principle. But I agree that in practice the french are a bit too idealistic. They should probably come up with a better way of identifying the risks. Not everyone that can provide a translated cassier de judissiare from their home country is innocent in real life.

[Spendulus]

How do you decide who is a muslim btw?

Do you assume based on their birthplace?
Take my case. I am an atheist born in Istanbul. My turkish identity card has "muslim" written on it. I work as a researcher in a prestigious french university, and I contribute rather positively to the french society (I had many students, postdocs etc.). So you want france to kick me out, or not let me and my family into france based on what is written on my identity card? Very smart. I hate islam more than you do, believe me........

Interesting view.


But I would simply note that war is full of purposefully devised double bind situations.

For example note the case of Coventry in WWII.  If the British vacated the city, the enemy would then know that the British had broken their encryption. 

An enemy seeks refuge within a greater population, where he cannot be thrown out without impacting that greater population.  This is why the USA put Japanese citizens in internment camps during WWII.  The threat of a small fraction of that population.

Since then this has been often cited as a racial abuse, but at the time it was done for the greater safety of the US population. 

Summary?  Political correctness has just died.  It's over, folks.

[Daniel91]

In my country Muslims live over 500 years, so such question is meaningless.
We live in peace with them but had conflict with other Christian group.
Of course, Muslims which now coming to Europe are completely different issue.