Diamonds for Bitcoins

[crazy_rabbit]

Hi there,

I am not sure this was posted before but in any case with the fear that I might repeat just what somebody else said I wanted to know what are the implications of opening an exchange service for rare goods such as diamonds (note the market is different than gold or silver as it is not regulated by the same principles), prices are set differently (Rappaport & Diamond Council). Diamonds were always a good investment and will remain, it's just the do's and don'ts that might prevent such a service to open?

I can tell you none of the big brands are likely to accept btc very soon no matter the industry. Money is the primary means and would stay this way for a long time because of the nitty gritty world of banking/accountancy/ledger/AR/AP, international standards plus auditing. Most big retailers CEO's and money movers still see btc as a potential bubble.

Having said that, starting with local and small businesses is the key here, you get the market cap and support the system (as idea and the truth behind it) and then when a real stable and growing market is created for btc use, move to bigger fish.

In my own world I would like to open a "diamond for btc" service such as the gold/silver ones though operating like a store too (ex bluenile). Any idea if this can be done?

In the meantime, can someone tell me if there is a good marketplace that I can sell certified diamonds on for btc without a hassle?

Thanks and good luck!
Daniel 

I wanted to wait to announce this but I guess I should give a pre-announcement in that I will be offering Diamonds for BTC. There are a lot more details to come but it's slow in putting everything together. :-)

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[Ente]

Hi there,

I am not sure this was posted before but in any case with the fear that I might repeat just what somebody else said I wanted to know what are the implications of opening an exchange service for rare goods such as diamonds (note the market is different than gold or silver as it is not regulated by the same principles), prices are set differently (Rappaport & Diamond Council). Diamonds were always a good investment and will remain, it's just the do's and don'ts that might prevent such a service to open?

I can tell you none of the big brands are likely to accept btc very soon no matter the industry. Money is the primary means and would stay this way for a long time because of the nitty gritty world of banking/accountancy/ledger/AR/AP, international standards plus auditing. Most big retailers CEO's and money movers still see btc as a potential bubble.

Having said that, starting with local and small businesses is the key here, you get the market cap and support the system (as idea and the truth behind it) and then when a real stable and growing market is created for btc use, move to bigger fish.

In my own world I would like to open a "diamond for btc" service such as the gold/silver ones though operating like a store too (ex bluenile). Any idea if this can be done?

In the meantime, can someone tell me if there is a good marketplace that I can sell certified diamonds on for btc without a hassle?

Thanks and good luck!
Daniel  

Hi Daniel,

I am happy about all new merchants accepting bitcoins, and especially happy about all new and creative ways which are new with bitcoins!
That said, a few thoughts about diamonds specially:

- Bitcoin (and other non-reversible methods) have a higher risk for fraud. Especially with gems and especially with diamonds this is true, gems and diamonds depend a lot on the reputation and trust between seller and buyer.

- Besides that, I see no problem in "bartering" bitcoins for diamonds. All transactions where you "pay" for goods (this is important) with bitcoin should be safe. This is quite different to selling/exchanging bitcoins for money, as you often need licences for that. I.e. being a bank or certified money something.

- Finally, I strongly suggest to read more about the whole "diamonds/gems as an investment". You gave hints with Rapaport. You will never get a decent price if you try to sell your "investment diamond" again. Real investment diamonds are six figures upwards. Most jewellers, even right where you bought your stone, won't even make you an offer. Simply because they can't pay more than, say, half of the price you paid. Nasty situation which they want to avoid.

- A great article about the inner workings of the diamond industry is here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/
Some pages long, some years old, but really eye-opening. Must-read for anyone who wants to invest time or even money into a diamond. Even "just" for jewellery. In short, "diamond invention". I consider it the largest and most advanced manipulation, if not scam, in human history.

My personal summary: I will never spend a cent for a diamond. And will try to inform others about the depth of this whole mess. I plan, however, to eventually dig out a rough diamond by myself, being a minerals collector :-)

Happy reading!

Ente

[dino_saur]

Hi there,

I am not sure this was posted before but in any case with the fear that I might repeat just what somebody else said I wanted to know what are the implications of opening an exchange service for rare goods such as diamonds (note the market is different than gold or silver as it is not regulated by the same principles), prices are set differently (Rappaport & Diamond Council). Diamonds were always a good investment and will remain, it's just the do's and don'ts that might prevent such a service to open?

I can tell you none of the big brands are likely to accept btc very soon no matter the industry. Money is the primary means and would stay this way for a long time because of the nitty gritty world of banking/accountancy/ledger/AR/AP, international standards plus auditing. Most big retailers CEO's and money movers still see btc as a potential bubble.

Having said that, starting with local and small businesses is the key here, you get the market cap and support the system (as idea and the truth behind it) and then when a real stable and growing market is created for btc use, move to bigger fish.

In my own world I would like to open a "diamond for btc" service such as the gold/silver ones though operating like a store too (ex bluenile). Any idea if this can be done?

In the meantime, can someone tell me if there is a good marketplace that I can sell certified diamonds on for btc without a hassle?

Thanks and good luck!
Daniel  

Hi Daniel,

I am happy about all new merchants accepting bitcoins, and especially happy about all new and creative ways which are new with bitcoins!
That said, a few thoughts about diamonds specially:

- Bitcoin (and other non-reversible methods) have a higher risk for fraud. Especially with gems and especially with diamonds this is true, gems and diamonds depend a lot on the reputation and trust between seller and buyer.

- Besides that, I see no problem in "bartering" bitcoins for diamonds. All transactions where you "pay" for goods (this is important) with bitcoin should be safe. This is quite different to selling/exchanging bitcoins for money, as you often need licences for that. I.e. being a bank or certified money something.

- Finally, I strongly suggest to read more about the whole "diamonds/gems as an investment". You gave hints with Rapaport. You will never get a decent price if you try to sell your "investment diamond" again. Real investment diamonds are six figures upwards. Most jewellers, even right where you bought your stone, won't even make you an offer. Simply because they can't pay more than, say, half of the price you paid. Nasty situation which they want to avoid.

- A great article about the inner workings of the diamond industry is here:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/
Some pages long, some years old, but really eye-opening. Must-read for anyone who wants to invest time or even money into a diamond. Even "just" for jewellery. In short, "diamond invention". I consider it the largest and most advanced manipulation, if not scam, in human history.

My personal summary: I will never spend a cent for a diamond. And will try to inform others about the depth of this whole mess. I plan, however, to eventually dig out a rough diamond by myself, being a minerals collector :-)

Happy reading!

Ente

Ente, thanks for your interesting post!
To comment a bit about what you wrote:
1) Never buy a diamond from a store for investment, there are other channels. As an example, first hand buying is around 50% of retail for a certified piece, so in fact what you buy in a store is more or less double the actual value depending on quality and certification.
2) Investment diamonds are usually bought through a diamond broker that can leverage the best price and stone from all possible sources (not available to the general public) obtaining a deal usually way below the official Rappaport figures. Those diamonds will always be good for reselling as you obtain the best possible price that any jeweler will be asked as well. Difference is jewelers pay tax, store rent/mortgage, salaries etc etc. and have to make a living too.
3) The link you provided pretty much says it all but nothing especially new although still good info for people to consider, thanks !

In any case that wasn't the point...I am more interested in the technical/operational side of things, bitcoin service implementation, vendor relationship, paperwork, government approvals (if any as this is open source technology I assume there are no strict regulations for trading besides the community approval)?

I will dig deeper into this and see what I can find.
In the meantime, happy bitcoining to everyone!:)

[crazy_rabbit]

I just saw this thread. We will be selling Diamonds engraved with Bitcoin Private keys.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=197793.0

We can also just sell the diamonds, but the private keys are the special deal. :-)

[Skele]

Wow 50k ring, congratulations men, hope the priests "and till death do you part" words become true, my best wishes for ya 

[Gianluca95]

If I want to buy a diamond, or gold, Can I do it anonymously, or your company require a SCAN of my document?

[Beliathon]

I will be getting married this year,  and will need to buy a diamond ring.

No, you choose to buy a diamond ring. There is no need. it's a (very wasteful) ritual you are choosing to engage in, like marriage and reproduction.

You could instead choose to do something creative and unique for your loved one, such as personally diving for pearls until you've gathered enough of them to make her a necklace, but you opt for the "oh I'll just spend a bunch of money, so she knows I love her" route.

The exchange of these tokens, these "rare" (not really!) stones for marriage is a tradition that, like capitalism itself, is left over from the feudal age. Now go watch Blood Diamond.

[bitsmichel]

I will be getting married this year,  and will need to buy a diamond ring.

No, you choose to buy a diamond ring. There is no need. it's a (very wasteful) ritual you are choosing to engage in, like marriage and reproduction.

Agree, $50.000 for a ring is crazy.. you must truly be in love 

[Ente]

I will be getting married this year,  and will need to buy a diamond ring.

No, you choose to buy a diamond ring. There is no need. it's a (very wasteful) ritual you are choosing to engage in, like marriage and reproduction.

You could instead choose to do something creative and unique for your loved one, such as personally diving for pearls until you've gathered enough of them to make her a necklace, but you opt for the "oh I'll just spend a bunch of money, so she knows I love her" route.

The exchange of these tokens, these "rare" (not really!) stones for marriage is a tradition that, like capitalism itself, is left over from the feudal age. Now go watch Blood Diamond.

..and then about the DeBeers scam.
Yes, diamonds are not really rare. Their supply is heavily limited by the DeBeers cartel.

A pure red ruby, on the other hand, is *really* rare. And still less expensive than an equally sized diamond. And oh so much more beautiful!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=123503.0
Dave (tiptopgem) is your man, should you want something really special, world-class league, to good prices.
He has many other stones too. Except diamond, as far as I know :-)

Ente

[BitsToStones]

If I want to buy a diamond, or gold, Can I do it anonymously, or your company require a SCAN of my document?

www.BitsToStones.com does not require any scanned documents, and our checkout process is quite simple.

[unexecuted]

My understanding was that it was only "illegal" if the server owners were selling things that were otherwise unattainable to the players.

[smoothie]

Did he ever go through with the proposal and the purchase of the ring?

[Harley997]

I will be getting married this year,  and will need to buy a diamond ring.

No, you choose to buy a diamond ring. There is no need. it's a (very wasteful) ritual you are choosing to engage in, like marriage and reproduction.

Agree, $50.000 for a ring is crazy.. you must truly be in love 

A very expensive ring indeed.

If you only want them to accept bitcoin for your purchase then you would likely have little problem getting them to accept it once via coinbase or bitpay.

Getting them to accept bitcoin for all of their customers would be much more difficult and time consuming.

[Drai]

50k for a wedding ring!!! Baller!  Congrats Roger!  I am happy for you!

You should be happy for the girl...  I am lucky mine is more frugal than I am.

[SimpleIn]

I will be getting married this year,  and will need to buy a diamond ring.
I've decided that this is a good opportunity to bring more companies on board with Bitcoin.

My fiancé agreed to allow me to buy the ring with Bitcoins, with the condition that I have it by the end of March April 2012.
That day is quickly approaching,  so I need the Bitcoin community's help to make this happen.

Bitcoins are a perfect fit for online retailers of Diamonds.
Diamonds are a commodity that can easily be resold,  and are not traceable, and are therefore a common target for thieves using stolen credit card numbers.
Bitcoin removes all of these risks.

My initial goal was to get www.bluenile.com to accept Bitcoins as payment directly on their website.
BlueNile.com is the worlds largest online diamond retailer.
They are a publicly traded company with annual revenue of around $350M USD.

In several emails with Blue Nile,  I have promised to buy a ring of at least $50,000 USD from them if they publicly accept Bitcoins on their website.
They have shown some interest,  but have not given any kind of firm commitment yet.

I'm hoping that with some additional interest from the Bitcoin community, we can convince them to accept Bitcoins directly on their website.

If you agree with this idea, please contact them to let them know you would also like them to accept Bitcoins as payment.
http://www.bluenile.com/contact-blue-nile

Your request will be even more influential if there is an actual product on their website that you promise to buy if they accept Bitcoin payments.

My original email to BlueNile can be found here:
http://pastebin.com/CBJvpDde


Lets make this happen!

Wow 50.000 for the ring 

[notaek]

OP, have you got married yet? Initially it was a great idea to promote Bitcoin worldwide with Blue Nile for a $50,000 transaction. But to my surprise, they haven't introduced it till now!