Time for a renewed push to get EFF to accept Bitcoins?

[DeathAndTaxes]

In light of the wordpress news is it time for EFF to drop their nonsensical no Bitcoin policy?  I wrote them an email this morning.  I have donated heavily in the past but I can't in good faith support them if they don't support Bitcoin.   Unlike another charity (foodbank, or red cross) the concept of free access to volentary currency system fits right into area of focus.   Bitcoin and the right for people to have free access to it, likely will be THE "electronic frontier" issue of the next decade.

If the EFF can't be the advocate well they likely need to go away so someone else can.

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[Akka]

I could imagine, that an approach with Wordpress as example and pointing them towards Bitpay could be successful.

Their point was allays, that they don't accept Bitcoins, because of the danger to have a liabilities themself.

If they go over Bitpay, they could always argue, that they basically accept only USD.

[joecascio]

Also, Wikipedia. I actually had a brief Twitter conversation with Jimmy Wales about why they wouldn't accept bitcoin donations. Basically, it came down to the fact that EFF had taken their rather nonsensical stand about it being "legally questionable". Wales offered a couple of other reasons, neither of which held any water as far as I was concerned. At bottom, I think his legal department scared him. Maybe now they'll see there's nothing illegal about it. It's just a payment method.

[casascius]

I think the EFF is a pretty sharp bunch, are watching from the sidelines intently, and will accept Bitcoin when they decide the moment is right.

Which could mean never.

The notion that one day defending digital liberty could mean defending Bitcoin users is reasonable. So are their qualifications to decide whether their soapbox would be best served by not appearing to have a self interest in sustaining Bitcoin income.

I have never talked to anyone at EFF who did not know about Bitcoin. We are definitely on their radar and they don't need us to prod them.

[casascius]

I have donated to Wikipedia multiple times in the past.

Decent amounts too. (A few hundred bucks each time)

I don't plan to donate anymore until they accept Bitcoin.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Also, Wikipedia. I actually had a brief Twitter conversation with Jimmy Wales about why they wouldn't accept bitcoin donations. Basically, it came down to the fact that EFF had taken their rather nonsensical stand about it being "legally questionable". Wales offered a couple of other reasons, neither of which held any water as far as I was concerned. At bottom, I think his legal department scared him. Maybe now they'll see there's nothing illegal about it. It's just a payment method.

That is the worst part.  The EFF has some reputation so not only are they not accepting it but their unsubstantiated claims have a chilling effect on other entities.   Had it been anyone else or if they just said "we don't accept Bitcoin at this time" it would have been less harmful to adoption.  

The EFF accepting then dropping Bitcoin and making vague "scary" claims about legality is essentially a worst case scenario.  I mean even Bitcoin hostile entities like FinCEN and ECB haven't made any sort of claim that accepting Bitcoins breaks any law or would result in any liability.

To refresh everyone's memory the EFF article on Bitcoin
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/06/eff-and-bitcoin

However, we’ve recently removed the Bitcoin donation option from the Other Ways to Help page on the EFF website, and we have decided to not accept Bitcoins. We decided on this course of action for a few reasons:

1.   We don't fully understand the complex legal issues involved with creating a new currency system. Bitcoin raises untested legal concerns related to securities law, the Stamp Payments Act, tax evasion, consumer protection and money laundering, among others. And that’s just in the U.S. While EFF is often the defender of people ensnared in legal issues arising from new technologies, we try very hard to keep EFF from becoming the actual subject of those fights or issues. Since there is no caselaw on this topic, and the legal implications are still very unclear, we worry that our acceptance of Bitcoins may move us into the possible subject role.

(last updated June 11, 2011).  So almost a year an a half later I wonder if the EFF can make some updated statements.

[novusordo]

I think the EFF is a pretty sharp bunch, are watching from the sidelines intently, and will accept Bitcoin when they decide the moment is right.

I agree, and appreciate all that the EFF has done for our society in defense of freedom. In not accepting Bitcoin, they're just trying to protect themselves so that they can continue doing great things. I truly think they have their (and those of whom they protect) best interests at heart.

However, I believe their fears are unfounded. On top of that, their actions have scared away others from accepting Bitcoin. If they had never accepted Bitcoin in the first place, and just said "maybe in the future" there wouldn't have been any problem, but the way they went about it almost certainly scared some potential big players away.

[Spekulatius]

I think the time is now to friendly remind them of the possibility and their role as supporter of digital freedom and prosperity and to watch their bias wane as reddit and others soon follow to adopt bitcoin.

[...] I actually had a brief Twitter conversation with Jimmy Wales [...]

Are you serious?

[kokojie]

I think the EFF is a pretty sharp bunch, are watching from the sidelines intently, and will accept Bitcoin when they decide the moment is right.

I agree, and appreciate all that the EFF has done for our society in defense of freedom. In not accepting Bitcoin, they're just trying to protect themselves so that they can continue doing great things. I truly think they have their (and those of whom they protect) best interests at heart.

However, I believe their fears are unfounded. On top of that, their actions have scared away others from accepting Bitcoin. If they had never accepted Bitcoin in the first place, and just said "maybe in the future" there wouldn't have been any problem, but the way they went about it almost certainly scared some potential big players away.

Protect themselves from what? Wordpress.com is a commercial company, their accounting is under more scrutiny, and apparently it saw no problem in accepting bitcoin. EFF is a non-profit and yet it's afraid to to accept bitcoin?

[RodeoX]

Their cutting off of bitcoin has left a bad taste in my mouth.  Who needs an institution that defends your rights only with permission from the authorities?

[Herodes]

Also, Wikipedia. I actually had a brief Twitter conversation with Jimmy Wales about why they wouldn't accept bitcoin donations. Basically, it came down to the fact that EFF had taken their rather nonsensical stand about it being "legally questionable". Wales offered a couple of other reasons, neither of which held any water as far as I was concerned. At bottom, I think his legal department scared him. Maybe now they'll see there's nothing illegal about it. It's just a payment method.

I would donate with bitcoins to wikipedia, to promote bitcoin and of course to help wikipedia. I will not donate in dollars or euros.

[Akka]

Also, Wikipedia. I actually had a brief Twitter conversation with Jimmy Wales about why they wouldn't accept bitcoin donations. Basically, it came down to the fact that EFF had taken their rather nonsensical stand about it being "legally questionable". Wales offered a couple of other reasons, neither of which held any water as far as I was concerned. At bottom, I think his legal department scared him. Maybe now they'll see there's nothing illegal about it. It's just a payment method.

I would donate with bitcoins to wikipedia, to promote bitcoin and of course to help wikipedia. I will not donate in dollars or euros.

That's exactly what I think everytime that please donate, Wikipedia needs you filed is shown. I click on it everytime looking: "Do you accept bitcoin yet? No! So no donation for you"

[Gabi]

Their cutting off of bitcoin has left a bad taste in my mouth.  Who needs an institution that defends your rights only with permission from the authorities?

+1

[hazek]

I think the EFF is a pretty sharp bunch, are watching from the sidelines intently, and will accept Bitcoin when they decide the moment is right.

I agree, and appreciate all that the EFF has done for our society in defense of freedom. In not accepting Bitcoin, they're just trying to protect themselves so that they can continue doing great things. I truly think they have their (and those of whom they protect) best interests at heart.

However, I believe their fears are unfounded. On top of that, their actions have scared away others from accepting Bitcoin. If they had never accepted Bitcoin in the first place, and just said "maybe in the future" there wouldn't have been any problem, but the way they went about it almost certainly scared some potential big players away.

Protect themselves from what? Wordpress.com is a commercial company, their accounting is under more scrutiny, and apparently it saw no problem in accepting bitcoin. EFF is a non-profit and yet it's afraid to to accept bitcoin?

As I understood their argument they wanted to preserve the appearance of being unbaised if they'd ever need to defend Bitcoin legally which if they'd accept donations in bitcoins someone might try to slander them that they are just looking out for their own interest..

[Trader Steve]

These organizations ignore bitcoin at their own peril. In my opinion EFF "wussed out". Isn't their mission something about protecting electronic freedom? Like a previous poster already said, I've lost a lot of respect for EFF. Yes, they do a lot of great things and I am thankful for that but rejecting bitcoin was a major fail.

[imanikin]

These organizations ignore bitcoin at their own peril. In my opinion EFF "wussed out". Isn't their mission something about protecting electronic freedom? Like a previous poster already said, I've lost a lot of respect for EFF. Yes, they do a lot of great things and I am thankful for that but rejecting bitcoin was a major fail.

+1

[ElectricMucus]

Wrong approach IMO. Wordpress has very different needs than the EFF.

It would be better to do this in team with the FSF which already is into BTC the track record of a successful relationship with it will convince the EFF heads way more than any commercial site dealing in BTC.

[casascius]

I disagree with the posters who say that the EFF is a major fail or is pussying out.

The EFF will probably be the first to step to the plate and volunteer their own resources to protect liberty in the face of a threat to Bitcoin.  They do all kinds of important work, including filing briefs with the Supreme Court and appellate courts to try and shape policy in a way that maximizes liberty and progress in computer technology.  They go to bat to protect people from copyright and patent trolls, they fight for the people's right to use cryptography, they fight abuse of things like DMCA by the record companies, they fight for our 5th amendment right to avoid being compelled to give up passwords...

I have gone to DefCon every year for the past several years and they are always present and sponsoring.  They are very open to dialogue and more than willing to share their opinions in a candid manner.  They ALL know about Bitcoin - not just "heard about it", but they know about it.

I feel pretty certain that the EFF has Bitcoin's best interests at heart.  They are watching.  Don't pester them, and certainly don't piss on all of the volunteer work they do that really makes a difference.

I won't donate to Wikipedia until they accept Bitcoin, but I will gladly donate fiat to the EFF.

[FlipPro]

The clowns at the EFF need to reevaluate who's side they're on. We got Wordpress now... What you guys are too big for us?

meh...

[Ichthyo]

The clowns at the EFF need to reevaluate who's side they're on. We got Wordpress now...

Thats not how opposition or a battle against legal authorities works.

Please don't forget: legal authorities aren't fighting Bitcoin at the moment.


The moment this changes, and authorities start actually to put pressure on (not just threatening), any large commercial entity will jump ship so fast that you can't even say "meh". Then will be the time for the EFF to come to help.