Bitcoin Forum
September 26, 2016, 08:44:53 PM *
News: Due to DDoS attacks, there may be periodic downtime.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Dash7/Near Field Communications and mobile Bitcoin clients  (Read 2381 times)
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666



View Profile
September 20, 2010, 10:59:41 PM
 #1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DASH7

A new player in the low power wireless communications realm is soon to hit the mainstream, so they say.  I've been waiting for years for a ZigBee enabled Android phone, but it's never come to pass.  I don't want some clunky add-on device, so I have been waiting.  Near-field magnetic communications aren't as sexy to me, but if a light/mobile client is developed that can use Dash7/WiFi/NFC to connect to any other such device for direct PeerDevice-to-PeerDevice transfers, automaticly or on command, then real world bitcoin transactions can become commonplace regardless of how readily available the Internet is for a particular buyer and seller at a particular time & place.  The client could automagicly attempt to update it's blockchain anytime an open WiFi hotspot is available (and the user is willing to drain the battery, wifi is a battery killer on a smartphone).  Yet, DAsh7 is intended to be slower, but with significantly less power; so a Dash7 radio inside a cellphone can reasonablely be left on under normal daily charging conditions.  (not everyone will do this, but many would)  So a client could passively query the Dash7 devices that it could reach every minute or so, and finding new ones, could attempt an update in either direction.  At a max transfer rate of 250 kbs, this wouldn't often be quick, but would keep even those smartphone users without any data service relatively up to date if they frequent public places.  Powerusers on the train would spend the better part of their commute updating the clients of the less well healed users, without ever knowing or caring that the trade has occured.  The same for trips to the local pub, the ball game, or any other place wherein the public mixes anonymously for more than a passing few seconds; airport & hotel lobbies, resturants, any kind of theater, etc.  Even during a widespread loss of connectivity event, such as a city power outage, Dash7 enabled mobile clients should be able to transact with just about anyone, and still mix the record of the transaction across the city population in such a manner that odds are high that double spending would be extremely difficult, and the odds are also high that the transaction will find it's way to the Internet and back to the main blockchain before the sender does.  Dash7 also has the potential to become a form of 'citizens band' version of instant messaging, with the advantage of intended encryption, and rather than pay way to much for text messaging services for cell phones that they rarely talk upon, teenagers might move en masse to Dash7 enabled devices.  Due to the encryption, the 'bursty' data design, and the automated nature of Dash7; the datagrams might not be distiguishable among a crowd even with nation-state resources.  Said another way, although an agent with the right equiptment and resources could record every Dash7 transmission in any given area, there might not be any way to definitively distingish the datagrams of a bitcoin client from a Dash7 PeerDevice-to-PeerDevice message forwarding client.

I can't find any holes in this plan, but I'm admittedly narrow focused when I'm new to a promising technology.  Please, if anyone can find errors or other issues with this, poke some holes in my ignorance.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1474922693
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1474922693

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1474922693
Reply with quote  #2

1474922693
Report to moderator
chaord
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 218


View Profile
September 20, 2010, 11:15:14 PM
 #2

Creighto -

So, if I can summarize, what you're essentially advocating is a decentralized, encrypted, anonymous, message (and payment) system utilizing mobile devices and an unregulated frequency spectrum?  If I got that right, then we are definitely on the same page!  It would be amazing if everyone had one of these devices tomorrow (eg, if adoption was instantaneous).  Any idea when the hardware for Dash7 + android will be available?
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666



View Profile
September 21, 2010, 12:03:32 AM
 #3

Any idea when the hardware for Dash7 + android will be available?

I won't hazard a guess, but just a couple of weeks ago, the 'Dash7 consortium' submitted a standard to ISO for interoperatibility between devices from different manufacturers, leapfrogging the 'ZigBee alliance' by a decade or so.  It certainly looks like they mean to monetize this in consumer devices, whereas the ZigBee alliance seemed more concerned with capturing a major vertical market such as 'smart meters' in the utilities industries.  Either protocal could have done well for both a distributed bitcoin network or a distributed p2p messaging network, but the wavelength chosen for Dash7 is notablely better for both these uses than ZigBee, which mostly competes with everything found in the 2.4 ghtz unlicensed spectrum.  The fact that, unlike 2.4 ghtz, 433 mhtz can penetrate water and concrete means that reception isn't significantly reduced in the pocket of a sitting owner and a pedestrian walking past the pub has a few seconds to connect and pass a block to/from a patron of said pub without a hickup.  Also, commuters heading the same direction on the freeway could pass blocks between cars or buses almost as easily as between riders on the same bus.  Drivers heading the other direction couldn't pass anything, but the 'bursty' nature of the protocal allows the guy driving slightly faster in the commuter lane to be in range of a driver in the slower lane for several seconds, and that is more than enough to pass a transaction or two.  Those same two drivers caught in a traffic jam could fully update a new client started in a third car before the mess is cleaned up.  The key is that Dash7 is designed for devices in motion relative to one another, and connects in a quick p2p fashion and transfers the appropriate data rapidly (relative to it's bandwith) so small packs of data have a high probablility of a complete transfer before the two devices leave range.  This is unlike how either ZigBee or WiFi work, as they both set up a 'session' before any data transfer occurs.  As quick as WiFi is in bulk transfers, you can witness the session overhead in the amount of time it takes for your laptop to connect to the Internet when you go to a new coffeshop.  It takes up to seven seconds for my laptop to connect to a wifi router that it's never seen before, and averages 3 seconds for a connection in places that I've been before.  ZigBee is better, but sessions take time to setup.  This would be acceptable in most public venues where patrons spend more than a few minutes sitting still, such as that pub, but excludes the passing pedestrian and the passing commuter in the next car on the freeway.  Also, most people do not have their wifi radio on their smartphone turned on while inside their pocket watching the game at the sports club, the thing just eats the batteries too fast.  Both Dash7 and ZigBee, on the other hand, use so little in the act of simply listening for other devices to talk to, to announce their presence that the cellphone's main system requires much more to simply be on.  So much so that most people probably wouldn't even notice the drain of a Dash7 radio running on their cellphone, and are therefore much more likely to leave it running; particularly if they understand that running it 24/7 is required for their p2p messaging client to be able to save them money anyway.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
sgtstein
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 61


View Profile
September 21, 2010, 01:03:55 AM
 #4

As there has been a piece of this project missing since I ever came into it, I believe we have just found the problem for the solution that is Bitcoin.

Not an IF, but WHEN this technology is finally incorporated into smartphones, and whatever the next gen replacement device ends up being, it will start another revolution of the people through their tracking and buying power. Yes, it can be used against them just as all tracking is, but even more than that it can be used so completely decentralized that nothing could stop it beyond the entire ban of the spectrum it will use. Even if that ends up happening, there will certainly be enough Electrical Engineers and hardware Hackers out there who will move beyond the limitations set by the governments(s) in the ongoing pursuit of The Hacker Ethic.

It will be amazing to see what results when this technology comes to fruition. Think of the changes when people were given the ability to think for themselves and publish(think Bill of Rights for United States of America) and now apply that to economic policy. Freedom to create, save and spend as wanted without limitations set forth by processing entities. If the economic model that Bitcoin uses fails to succeed as we all hope and plan, then it is merely a chance to try something else. Still without a fake 'controlling entity' who merely upends the market and helps greed grow. This would enable not just a test of Bitcoin, but a test of the coming generations in freedom and liberty never seen before.

Edit: Fix some spelling errors to give clearer language and understanding. Add extra ideas. See original quoted post below:
Anonymous
Guest

September 21, 2010, 01:39:45 AM
 #5

As there has been a piece of this project missing since I ever came into it, I believe we have just found the problem for the solution that is BitCoin.

Not an IF, but WHEN this technology is finally incorporated into smartphones, and whatever the next gen replacement device ends up being, it will start another revolution of the people through their tracking and buying power. Yes, it can be used against them just as all tracking is, but even more it can be used so completely decentralized that nothing could stop it beyond the entire band of the spectrum. Even if that ends up happening, there will certainly be enough Electrical Engineers and hardware Hackers out there who will move beyond the limitations in the ongoing pursuit of The Hacker Ethic.

It will be amazing to see what results when this technology comes to fruition.

Awesome!
chaord
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 218


View Profile
September 21, 2010, 02:48:09 AM
 #6

Yes, this is very cool.  I wish it were available tomorrow Wink
Markjupiter
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1


View Profile
October 23, 2010, 03:49:47 AM
 #7

If this technology will be adopted by smartphones, a lot of features will be introduced. This might also discourage hackers. I am sure this will bring breakthrough to all phone users.

business phone systems (http://www.freedomiq.com)
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!