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Author Topic: Is Bitcoin money?  (Read 98994 times)
DoublerHunter
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May 14, 2017, 06:48:44 AM
 #781

    Bitcoin is something radically new. Nothing like Bitcoin has been possible until now. I would go so far as to consider it sui generis; "in its own class".  This makes it important to understand what Bitcoin actually is before we try to describe it to others.

    We're getting a good handle on the code, and of course on Bitcoin's function and utility, but what words should we use to describe Bitcoin itself? There has been some debate in other threads [mostly my doing] over how it is like/not like money, cash, dollars, etc. I'd like to start this thread by focusing on the term "money", and play Devil's avocate by asking for your best arguments that Bitcoin IS money.

    My legal dictionary states "In usual and ordinary acceptation it [money] means gold, silver, or paper money, used as circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate." [cites omitted]

    Wikipedia says "Money is any object that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context. The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value; and, occasionally, a standard of deferred payment." [cited omitted]

    Webster's Online Dictionary defines money as:
    • 1. The most common medium of exchange; functions as legal tender; "we tried to collect the money he owed us".
    • 2. Wealth reckoned in terms of money; "all his money is in real estate".
    • 3. The official currency issued by a government or national bank; "he changed his money into francs".
    • 4. A piece of metal, as gold, silver, copper, etc., coined, or stamped, and issued by the sovereign authority as a medium of exchange in financial transactions between citizens and with government; also, any number of such pieces; coin.
    • 5. Any written or stamped promise, certificate, or order, as a government note, a bank note, a certificate of deposit, etc., which is payable in standard coined money and is lawfully current in lieu of it; in a comprehensive sense, any currency usually and lawfully employed in buying and selling.
    • 6. In general, wealth; property; as, he has much money in land, or in stocks; to make, or lose, money.
    [links omitted]
    [/list]

    I maintain that per these definitions, Bitcoin cannot possibly be described as "money". And further, I think that those who do describe Bitcoin as "money" are doing this community a disservice.

    But that is just my point of view. Are there any that can convincingly argue otherwise, that Bitcoin IS money?








    Bitcoin is not money, it would be more "an exchange object" for money (dollar, real, euro, peso and etc). Basically bitcoin is a currency, but a currency. My point of view, please ask me.

    Bitcoin is money, you already said that it is a currency and a currency is money and can be used as an exchange object or to spend it on anything that you want using bitcoin or any cryptocurrency that you have. There is already online shops that accept bitcoin and you cannot tell that bitcoin is not money because if bitcoin is not money then there will be no people using it as a payment.

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    Pumared
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    May 14, 2017, 06:52:27 AM
     #782

      Bitcoin is something radically new. Nothing like Bitcoin has been possible until now. I would go so far as to consider it sui generis; "in its own class".  This makes it important to understand what Bitcoin actually is before we try to describe it to others.

      We're getting a good handle on the code, and of course on Bitcoin's function and utility, but what words should we use to describe Bitcoin itself? There has been some debate in other threads [mostly my doing] over how it is like/not like money, cash, dollars, etc. I'd like to start this thread by focusing on the term "money", and play Devil's avocate by asking for your best arguments that Bitcoin IS money.

      My legal dictionary states "In usual and ordinary acceptation it [money] means gold, silver, or paper money, used as circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate." [cites omitted]

      Wikipedia says "Money is any object that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context. The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value; and, occasionally, a standard of deferred payment." [cited omitted]

      Webster's Online Dictionary defines money as:
      • 1. The most common medium of exchange; functions as legal tender; "we tried to collect the money he owed us".
      • 2. Wealth reckoned in terms of money; "all his money is in real estate".
      • 3. The official currency issued by a government or national bank; "he changed his money into francs".
      • 4. A piece of metal, as gold, silver, copper, etc., coined, or stamped, and issued by the sovereign authority as a medium of exchange in financial transactions between citizens and with government; also, any number of such pieces; coin.
      • 5. Any written or stamped promise, certificate, or order, as a government note, a bank note, a certificate of deposit, etc., which is payable in standard coined money and is lawfully current in lieu of it; in a comprehensive sense, any currency usually and lawfully employed in buying and selling.
      • 6. In general, wealth; property; as, he has much money in land, or in stocks; to make, or lose, money.
      [links omitted]
      [/list]

      I maintain that per these definitions, Bitcoin cannot possibly be described as "money". And further, I think that those who do describe Bitcoin as "money" are doing this community a disservice.

      But that is just my point of view. Are there any that can convincingly argue otherwise, that Bitcoin IS money?








      Bitcoin is not money, it would be more "an exchange object" for money (dollar, real, euro, peso and etc). Basically bitcoin is a currency, but a currency. My point of view, please ask me.

      Bitcoin is money, you already said that it is a currency and a currency is money and can be used as an exchange object or to spend it on anything that you want using bitcoin or any cryptocurrency that you have. There is already online shops that accept bitcoin and you cannot tell that bitcoin is not money because if bitcoin is not money then there will be no people using it as a payment.

      So take it as an exchange, bitcoin would be like points you exchange for money, after mining it somewhere, or even winning it.

      kpcian
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      May 14, 2017, 05:07:56 PM
       #783

      In my point of view, if you consider the functions of money, then bitcoin would not be considered as a money. But if you think about the activities, then bitcoin would be money. But if you observe from recent days, then you can see the activities of bitcoin. it is used as a transaction purpose, payment purpose and so on. So bitcoin should be calling it as a virtual money.



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      grim007
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      May 14, 2017, 05:28:14 PM
       #784

      In my point of view, if you consider the functions of money, then bitcoin would not be considered as a money. But if you think about the activities, then bitcoin would be money. But if you observe from recent days, then you can see the activities of bitcoin. it is used as a transaction purpose, payment purpose and so on. So bitcoin should be calling it as a virtual money.

      Money uses in payment also ,for buying goods and foods and sending money same with bitcoin for payments too and for sending transactions. Bitcoin is money since we can use it for transactions like payments that requires money, we’re able to buy some online stuffs using it.

       
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      May 14, 2017, 05:31:17 PM
       #785

      Yes bitcoin is an online money, you can use it to purchase items and get paid through it. many users are investing in btc for the hope to earn because of its flactuating price. it only need to be widely accepted so many people would recognize it.

      i agree with you because until now, there is still few place or country that allow bitcoin to used for payment or for buying something in real life and bitcoin is only available in online so if we want to buy something by online, i think we can found store that will accepting bitcoin as the payment. but i realize, in online store, there is still a few store that accepting bitcoin but i am sure that in the future, bitcoin will be accepted in every where.

      I think bitcoin will be a pioneer in the widespread use of e-money transactions, because it's able to penetrate all sides without having to stick to appearances and positions, but the main requirement remains through online, this is still a problem in some countries, but thankfully I can be involved In bitcoin without problems, using this money is also very simple.



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      btcforall777
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      May 14, 2017, 05:32:38 PM
       #786

      This post began in 2010. It is interesting to see the changes in attitude over 6 or 7 years. Governments rule on what is is according to what benefits them at the time.

      Some say money, some say property. It is what is is!
      MingLee
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      May 14, 2017, 05:46:27 PM
       #787

      In my point of view, if you consider the functions of money, then bitcoin would not be considered as a money. But if you think about the activities, then bitcoin would be money. But if you observe from recent days, then you can see the activities of bitcoin. it is used as a transaction purpose, payment purpose and so on. So bitcoin should be calling it as a virtual money.

      Money uses in payment also ,for buying goods and foods and sending money same with bitcoin for payments too and for sending transactions. Bitcoin is money since we can use it for transactions like payments that requires money, we’re able to buy some online stuffs using it.
      There's a big difference between money and currency though. Currency is what we use in our daily lives because what we have access to isn't anything close to something that stores value; it's a lot more prone to losing value due to the smallest changes than basically any other means of storing value that exists. Gold, along with other precious metals, are "money", Bitcoin is in a weird mix between currency and money, but leaning to money rather than just currency.
      deisik
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      May 14, 2017, 06:25:47 PM
       #788

      In my point of view, if you consider the functions of money, then bitcoin would not be considered as a money. But if you think about the activities, then bitcoin would be money. But if you observe from recent days, then you can see the activities of bitcoin. it is used as a transaction purpose, payment purpose and so on. So bitcoin should be calling it as a virtual money.

      Money uses in payment also ,for buying goods and foods and sending money same with bitcoin for payments too and for sending transactions. Bitcoin is money since we can use it for transactions like payments that requires money, we’re able to buy some online stuffs using it.
      There's a big difference between money and currency though. Currency is what we use in our daily lives because what we have access to isn't anything close to something that stores value; it's a lot more prone to losing value due to the smallest changes than basically any other means of storing value that exists. Gold, along with other precious metals, are "money", Bitcoin is in a weird mix between currency and money, but leaning to money rather than just currency

      I think you are defining the term money far too broadly

      And I guess what you mean as money is properly called hard asset. As per Wikipedia article, a hard asset is an investment "with intrinsic value such as oil, natural gas, gold, silver, farmland, natural colored diamonds and commercial real estate". I don't think this is a correct approach since you are considering as money things which are a far cry from being money ("gold along with other precious metals"). It is not that gold cannot be money (it certainly can), it is its actual use, or rather lack of specific use, which doesn't allow to consider gold as money. Technically, gold is not money because it is not used as a unit of account nowadays

      GetClams.com
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      May 14, 2017, 06:36:03 PM
       #789

      Bitcoin is equal to or better than fiat money any day. Bitcoin will be around a long long time after fiat is gone.

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      May 14, 2017, 07:13:02 PM
       #790

      This post began in 2010. It is interesting to see the changes in attitude over 6 or 7 years. Governments rule on what is is according to what benefits them at the time.

      Some say money, some say property. It is what is is!


      Well if we considere this, it is what it is then Bitcoin is a currency.  from the whitepaper, and definition, Bitcoin is a peer to peer electronic currency.  And now it is being considered as payment method and money by different countries like Japan, Philippines and soon by Australia.  Another good thing with bitcoin is it can be use as store of value too  Tongue


           
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      whizter
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      May 14, 2017, 09:20:24 PM
       #791

        Bitcoin is something radically new. Nothing like Bitcoin has been possible until now. I would go so far as to consider it sui generis; "in its own class".  This makes it important to understand what Bitcoin actually is before we try to describe it to others.

        We're getting a good handle on the code, and of course on Bitcoin's function and utility, but what words should we use to describe Bitcoin itself? There has been some debate in other threads [mostly my doing] over how it is like/not like money, cash, dollars, etc. I'd like to start this thread by focusing on the term "money", and play Devil's avocate by asking for your best arguments that Bitcoin IS money.

        My legal dictionary states "In usual and ordinary acceptation it [money] means gold, silver, or paper money, used as circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate." [cites omitted]

        Wikipedia says "Money is any object that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context. The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value; and, occasionally, a standard of deferred payment." [cited omitted]

        Webster's Online Dictionary defines money as:
        • 1. The most common medium of exchange; functions as legal tender; "we tried to collect the money he owed us".
        • 2. Wealth reckoned in terms of money; "all his money is in real estate".
        • 3. The official currency issued by a government or national bank; "he changed his money into francs".
        • 4. A piece of metal, as gold, silver, copper, etc., coined, or stamped, and issued by the sovereign authority as a medium of exchange in financial transactions between citizens and with government; also, any number of such pieces; coin.
        • 5. Any written or stamped promise, certificate, or order, as a government note, a bank note, a certificate of deposit, etc., which is payable in standard coined money and is lawfully current in lieu of it; in a comprehensive sense, any currency usually and lawfully employed in buying and selling.
        • 6. In general, wealth; property; as, he has much money in land, or in stocks; to make, or lose, money.
        [links omitted]
        [/list]

        I maintain that per these definitions, Bitcoin cannot possibly be described as "money". And further, I think that those who do describe Bitcoin as "money" are doing this community a disservice.

        But that is just my point of view. Are there any that can convincingly argue otherwise, that Bitcoin IS money?








        Bitcoin is not money, it would be more "an exchange object" for money (dollar, real, euro, peso and etc). Basically bitcoin is a currency, but a currency. My point of view, please ask me.

        Bitcoin is money, you already said that it is a currency and a currency is money and can be used as an exchange object or to spend it on anything that you want using bitcoin or any cryptocurrency that you have. There is already online shops that accept bitcoin and you cannot tell that bitcoin is not money because if bitcoin is not money then there will be no people using it as a payment.
        yes there is no doubt about that bitcoin is money, as we are using it for online purpose as well as in some place we have the opportunities to use bitcoin in local shops also. i am hopeful that very soon we will also be able to use bitcoin in our local shops for shopping and so many other purposes.

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        GetClams.com
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        May 14, 2017, 10:15:15 PM
         #792

        This post began in 2010. It is interesting to see the changes in attitude over 6 or 7 years. Governments rule on what is is according to what benefits them at the time.

        Some say money, some say property. It is what is is!


        Well if we considere this, it is what it is then Bitcoin is a currency.  from the whitepaper, and definition, Bitcoin is a peer to peer electronic currency.  And now it is being considered as payment method and money by different countries like Japan, Philippines and soon by Australia.  Another good thing with bitcoin is it can be use as store of value too  Tongue

        Actually the gov's have very little say, they just don't realize it yet. Its what the people decide it is not the government.  Those govt types need to start looking for new jobs and can I suggestthey look in the Crypto sector ha ha

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        May 14, 2017, 10:33:10 PM
         #793

        In my point of view, if you consider the functions of money, then bitcoin would not be considered as a money.
        How can that be?Money is defined in terms of the three functions it provides - as a medium of exchange, as a store of value, and as a unit of account. Perhaps you can tell us which of the three roles does Bitcoin not fit in?

        Quote
        But if you think about the activities, then bitcoin would be money. But if you observe from recent days, then you can see the activities of bitcoin. it is used as a transaction purpose, payment purpose and so on. So bitcoin should be calling it as a virtual money.
        It is called a virtually currency not because of all that, but simple because it does not exist in physical form but always a digital asset

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        May 14, 2017, 10:44:35 PM
         #794

        This post began in 2010. It is interesting to see the changes in attitude over 6 or 7 years. Governments rule on what is is according to what benefits them at the time.

        Some say money, some say property. It is what is is!


        Well if we considere this, it is what it is then Bitcoin is a currency.  from the whitepaper, and definition, Bitcoin is a peer to peer electronic currency.  And now it is being considered as payment method and money by different countries like Japan, Philippines and soon by Australia.  Another good thing with bitcoin is it can be use as store of value too  Tongue

        Actually the gov's have very little say, they just don't realize it yet. Its what the people decide it is not the government.  Those govt types need to start looking for new jobs and can I suggestthey look in the Crypto sector ha ha
        The Japan has took the start to legalize bitcoin and after that country I am sure that other countries will also start to legalize it if Japan did not face any problem and they will benefit from the bitcoin and its technology in the country.
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        May 14, 2017, 10:48:43 PM
         #795

        Actually the gov's have very little say, they just don't realize it yet. Its what the people decide it is not the government.  Those govt types need to start looking for new jobs and can I suggestthey look in the Crypto sector ha ha

        Don't write the governments off like they don't know what Bitcoin is. They are very well aware of what Bitcoin is and how it works, and that they and their corrupted mafia banks are completely outruled. It's not for nothing that certain countries hold a defensive/aggresive stance against Bitcoin. In case of China, they absolutely hate everything that allows people to move wealth from their country to another. Bitcoin is perfectly suitable for that job, and that's exactly why I don't believe China will ever approach Bitcoin in a friendly manner.

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        May 14, 2017, 10:50:58 PM
         #796

        i think, 10 years later every shops will accept bitcoin. may be some countries are not




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        Zenithar
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        May 14, 2017, 11:54:06 PM
         #797

        Yes bitcoin is an online money, you can use it to purchase items and get paid through it. many users are investing in btc for the hope to earn because of its flactuating price. it only need to be widely accepted so many people would recognize it.

        i agree with you because until now, there is still few place or country that allow bitcoin to used for payment or for buying something in real life and bitcoin is only available in online so if we want to buy something by online, i think we can found store that will accepting bitcoin as the payment. but i realize, in online store, there is still a few store that accepting bitcoin but i am sure that in the future, bitcoin will be accepted in every where.
        yes there is no doubt that now there are so many online shops who are giving you option about to use bitcoin for shopping. even there are some ares for example in brazil where people are using bitcoin in real shops, in fact there the users of bitcoin are too more and they have good opportunity to use bitcoin even in ther local shops.
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        May 15, 2017, 12:48:11 AM
         #798

        Anything that is being used as a medium of exchange is money. Bitcoin, like gold, is money.

        That's right. Because if we are talking about bitcoin, we also talking about money. Bitcoin is another type of currency in which, we can also convert it into philippine money. Similar to the dollar, bitcoin can also buy and sell.

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        sobsitesearch
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        May 15, 2017, 12:58:21 AM
         #799

        Anything that is being used as a medium of exchange is money. Bitcoin, like gold, is money.

        That's right. Because if we are talking about bitcoin, we also talking about money. Bitcoin is another type of currency in which, we can also convert it into philippine money. Similar to the dollar, bitcoin can also buy and sell.
        Agree, and this currency gives up opportunity to make more money because of volatility of value. Even we do not have real paper money or coin bitcoin can be used to buy and sell some of the products we have by using online transaction. We should treasure this currency because bitcoin will help us to make rich someday.
        SoulBargain
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        May 15, 2017, 05:16:05 AM
         #800

        This post began in 2010. It is interesting to see the changes in attitude over 6 or 7 years. Governments rule on what is is according to what benefits them at the time.

        Some say money, some say property. It is what is is!


        Well if we considere this, it is what it is then Bitcoin is a currency.  from the whitepaper, and definition, Bitcoin is a peer to peer electronic currency.  And now it is being considered as payment method and money by different countries like Japan, Philippines and soon by Australia.  Another good thing with bitcoin is it can be use as store of value too  Tongue

        Since Bitcoin is not really accepted as money by other countries by definition that is more like an asset or commodity. So we can say that Bitcoin functions like money and also known as digital currency that is used as a medium of exchange or transactions especially in online world.
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