NYAN/BMF/CPA CLAIMS (latest news in post #45)

[Vbs]

Good news!  

http://blog.glbse.com/asset-lists

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[EskimoBob]

Usagi, did receive the updated list?
I like to finish this up and move on.

[usagi]

Usagi, did receive the updated list?
I like to finish this up and move on.

I've received some new lists, yes. If you are on them you will get an email before the end of January.

[Lethos]

I have also been away from BTC community for a while. So it's only know I've come back to find out for sure that Nefario actually is somewhat helping to fix the situation he put so many of us in.

I am aware I owned a few of your shares Usagi, yes Nyan was one of them. I could well own others, I have a bad memory and don't recall the history of who is behind them anymore.
As I said I am also aware I owned a few others (I don't know what the "etc" is), can list your assets, which I can claim with you?

A forum member here (I forget) made a google chrome plugin that used the GLBSE api to keep track of all my shares on my account, I used it and found it very useful. I took screenshots of what the numbers were for all my stocks I had, since apparently the API was either active or the plugin cached result even after Nefario took down the site. So I have what as far as I am aware was the final tally when GLBSE went down.

So is that acceptable evidence to prove what I owe? outside of email and btc address of course.
It has a list of the total, as well as recent transactions, dividends paid etc everything.

[usagi]

I've received the lists from Nefario. I spent a couple hours today going over them and reformatting them for easier processing and so on and so forth. While I'll make a more better announcement later here are my initial thoughts.

1. I did not receive enough information to adequately process these lists.
First, the lists do not differentiate between unissued shares in an issuing account, and privately bought shares in a personal account. This is exceedingly bad. For example, I am listed as the top shareholder in the 90-95% category on almost every list. Thankfully, I had published the approximate number of outstanding shares before GLBSE shut down, so it is reasonable for me to assume that the actual number of outstanding shares was not greater than the largest number published before the shutdown. There will likely be a small error here. Unfortunately I don't have a csv file, which is probably what should have been sent instead of merely a list. But anyway, there is enough information to do 99% of what needs to be done in that area so no humungous problem here (but something to be aware of).

2. Unclaimed shares -- observations, thoughts
In most cases, unclaimed shares (shares which were owned by people who did not go through the GLBSE claims process, or who did not return double payments) were under 1%. There were some notable exceptions, such as NYAN.C shareholders. This is actually a very, very bad problem for a couple reasons. I will decide what to do about this later but here is what I am thinking:

a) People who are not on the list might not be on the list because they did not return a double payment.
This is big. People who did not return a double payment are, as of this moment, officially scammers. First, this class of people has already effectively received some of their money back on their claim; further, a part of the money they received would have otherwise gone to the companies I am liquidating. This has the net effect of reducing the value of all shareholder's claims.

b) Some people on the list have also claimed privately, causing a double claims problem.
I realize some people did this accidentally. However this is one of the reasons why I asked people to e-mail me. So I could more easily detect double claims. However, several people have ignored my request and PM'd me and given me deposit addresses which do not appear on the list. This is a huge problem, also because of c) below.

c) Some people not on the list have issued fraudulent claims.
Some people, aware that there are unclaimed shares, may attempt to claim shares they do not have title to.

d) People who are not on the list might not be on the list because they are criminals/avoiding AML.
This may be considered a minor reason by some. Granted, but I will note it. I will also note that NYAN.C is unique among all companies with 20% (!) unclaimed shares. Now that is interesting, but I won't speculate on the meaning. I'm sure you can do that yourself.

So where am I going with all this? Well, since the unclaimed shares are pretty much less than 1% across the board, this tells me two things... one, there isn't a significant investor anywhere in my companies which did not claim their shares. So basically people who have, for whatever reason, decided not to claim with the GLBSE, have written off (via that claims process) a very small amount of money; probably between ten and fifty dollars or so in value per investor. Second, it is a known that the value of people who have not returned double sends from Nefario approaches this value on a per-investor basis; for example, EskimoBob, a well-known troll, has advertised that he owned shares of my companies and that he has not returned his double send; therefore it makes sense to me to cancel all unclaimed shares. There is no need to vote on this action, as it benefits 99% of the shareholders of every company; I simply cannot be bothered to worry about someone who is afraid or unwilling to claim $50 on GLBSE, or who is whining because they got an extra 10 bitcoins in a double send from Nefario and then turns around and whines because they're not getting even more money they don't deserve from me.

However, I do recognize the fact that some people who (a) did not receive (or who did return) a double payment are not on the list, or (b) did not make double (fraudulent) claims, or who (d) are not criminals, are not on the list. This leaves (c), people who did not issue fraudulent claims. Unfortunately, these people are screwed and will not receive anything from this claims process. However there's an out. If you have no reason not to make a claim and simply don't want to, then do this:

1. Create an anonymous account, say on hotmail.

2. Make the claim anonymously

3. Deal with your asset issuer anonymously in that regard.

If you cannot even do this, I feel that there is just too much risk to the other shareholders and I will not be processing claims otherwise.

On that note, I have received updated lists for yarr and some other companies that include new claimants that have either done something like 1-3 above, or who have returned double spends. So there is really no excuse for not having your name on the list anymore. How do you know if you're on the list? Everyone on the list will receive a claim ticket ID number in the next week or so. Then I will publish all the lists in the format COMPANY TICKET #, No. Shares, and % of ownership of company. This will be your proof of ownership.

How can I prove these numbers are accurate and I am not inflating my own shares? Because I published the outstanding shares totals before the shutdown.

How can I prove I am not dicking people by pretending they're not on the list? If you do not receive a ticket in the next seven days, contact me. Maybe I made a mistake. if I didn't, there are 2 things: 1. If you're on other lists and not mine, contact nefario. 2. if you still feel the situation is unresolved, I can and will let theymos or whoever have access to my special hotmail account I set up for this. They will be able to see the .yml files and judge if I am bullshitting or not. A final point to make about that, I will not release any other information publicly nor will I answer any questions regarding how I am dispersing assets. I will only state that X people have been paid, or X% has been paid, or whatever. I've learned from my mistake of being too transparent and having dickless trolls like EskimoBob, deeplink, deprived and puppet causing trouble for me. So too bad. If you don't like it, ask theymos to permaban those four people and I'd be happy to post all the info you could ever dream about who owns what (non-personal info only of course). That's just how it's going to be, so don't get upset, I'm just telling you what's going to happen so the trolls don't bitch and while I said one thing and did another.

Again, given that the GLBSE claims process appears to be working as intended (less than 0.5% unclaimed shares in some companies), albeit a little slowly, I feel there is zero excuse for not following it. So if you don't make your claim with GLBSE, I'm afraid you are going to be out of luck.

I will also be contacting a certain gentleman who threatened me shortly and made the (really stupid mistake) of mentioning what I owe him. Guess what loser, I know who you are and you will pay for what you said to me. And the community is going to know who you are too. Have fun with that.

[Lethos]

Guess I'll wait for your email then, I've already done it for another of my assets.
Thank you for keeping us updated.

[usagi]

Guess I'll wait for your email then, I've already done it for another of my assets.
Thank you for keeping us updated.

Looking at the amount of information I have to wade through, I've decided to (attempt) to appoint a liquidator.

It works like this: The liquidator will, simply, contact all of the asset issuers that were invested in (the liquidator will receive a list of assets and shares), and obtain the status and location of our investments. The liquidator will collect this information in one place, so that I may begin selling or assigning our holdings as appropriate. Upon completion the liquidator will receive the greater of 50% of my share (I was a majority shareholder in both BMF and CPA) and $500 US. I had around 800 shares of BMF and hundreds of shares in my other companies so I am guessing it would be in that range anyway.

If no one sends me a PM I'll be wading through it over the next couple of weeks. It's just so depressing.

Qualifications would include a good OTC rating and/or having issued an asset before.

[usagi]

Through a mathematical trick I have been able to separate my shares from company shares from unissued shares. It works like this:

For CPA the figures look something like this:

LAST KNOWN OUTSTANDING SHARES      37,000   (*A, estimate)
SUM OF ALL SHARES EXCEPT USAGI'S      27,365   (*B, known)
USAGI'S SHARES PLUS UNCLAIMED SHARES      9,635   (=A-B)
TOTAL AS LISTED BY GLBSE      993,175   
AVAILABLE (TOTAL ISSUE)      1,000,000   
UNCLAIMED      6,825   
(USAGI'S PLUS UNCLAIMED) MINUS UNCLAIMED      2,810   9.3123%
A - B + Usagi's (CLAIMED TOTAL)      30,175   

I will be basing distributions on the CLAIMED TOTAL. The essential meaning is that unclaimed shares will be evenly divided among claimants. The remaining problem is what to do in a case such as when CPA owned 800 BMF. It's simple. The value of 800 BMF shares will be applied to CPA before CPA is liquidated.

I will be processing the liquidation in the following order:
YARR (since it's so small) will be paid out in bitcoins first (there's like 5 bitcoins left to pay, or something like that).
Then BMF will be liquidated since it was a major holding of CPA and NYAN
Then NYAN since it helf BMF and was held by CPA,
then CPA since it will have no remaining major holdings (and will therefore be easy to deal with).

Any questions?

[strello]

Hi usagi

I believe that, at collapse time you were holding considerable amounts of Obsi.HRPT. Any idea what has happened to him? Or are these just a write off?

Are you persuing Obsi? Or maybe at least a scammer tag.

[usagi]

Hi usagi

I believe that, at collapse time you were holding considerable amounts of Obsi.HRPT. Any idea what has happened to him? Or are these just a write off?

Are you persuing Obsi? Or maybe at least a scammer tag.

If I can't get a copy of the police report or a confirmation some other way that Obsi really did what he said he did (report the guy to the police) then we may have a problem. The big deal here is that Obsi said he got involved with a chain of payday loan outlets. So it's a chain, great, they must have a public face. it's quite possible that a franchise outlet flopped; in that case then it's just a failed investment. But if it's a case where he got ripped off, I deserve to know that now, and if he ran with the money I hope to find that out too.

CPA: 676 shares of OBSI.HRPT
BMF: 1871 shares of OBSI.HRPT
NYAN: 8218 shares of OBSI.HRPT

For the record, we bought in when he bought back over 5,000 shares after the first crash. I saw him do it. However, the selling continued after that and it crashed again. For the record, it was a lucky speculation on the part of the people who sold. Around half the shares we own were purchased at 0.05 and below. So to me it appears Obsi didn't know what happened, and it does not make sense that he would buy back so many shares on his own cash if it was all a scam. But who knows, it's something that will come out later I guess.

[Deprived]

Hi usagi

I believe that, at collapse time you were holding considerable amounts of Obsi.HRPT. Any idea what has happened to him? Or are these just a write off?

Are you persuing Obsi? Or maybe at least a scammer tag.

If I can't get a copy of the police report or a confirmation some other way that Obsi really did what he said he did (report the guy to the police) then we may have a problem.

Ask him for details of the guy/company he reported.  I asked him about this ages ago (wanted to avoid the scenario where he kept the money but was able to avoid a scammer tag by refusing to provide information), and quoted his reply (so it was there if he went on a deleting spree):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91646.msg1189273#msg1189273

Key is he said "I will provide all details I have in the event of default, and I would leave it up to individual investors whether they wish to pursue the issue".

Doubt he'll provide anything of use - but at least then you can write those shares off totally, having tried.

[EskimoBob]

New and updated list are going out tonight so be ready to recalculate the stuff.
At least this is what I was told.

[usagi]

OK.

We have new "complete" lists from Nefario, which include ALL investors. Some bitcoin addresses have been with-held ("contact for address") but I do now have all e-mails for everyone. Thank goodness I've waited until now to begin paying out claims ^^

I've applied to re-list on bitfunder and btct.co. if/when we get listed I will be sending out the relevant information to all shareholders.

There are substantial assets on these exchanges already more than 100 bitcoins in assets on bitfunder and probably twice that on btct.co already.

The current plan is to run a motion on the future direction of the company. The motion will last until January 27th (if and when we get listed). At that point we will either liquidate what we have, or continue paying monthly dividends. In that case I will be talking with a lawyer on incorporation, because investing is something I found I enjoyed doing.

This is really starting to look like I'll be able to finally get all the right things done. Thanks for your patience.

[usagi]

Update:
Form letters of the following ilk have been sent out to all NYAN.A participants of record:

Dear NYAN.A participant;

I have received a complete and final list from Nefario and I am now in a position to begin distributing assets, liquidating holdings, and making final payments.

As a NYAN.A participant you are owed shares of BMF (or value in kind) which will now either be given to you to hold and trade, or liquidated and sent to the BTC address of your choice.

This is not the only payment you will receive as a NYAN.A investor, and you may in fact receive other such letters as this from me if you were a participant in any of my other issues. The goal here is to establish a market value for your portion of the BMF shares NYAN.A held and then continue liquidating NYAN assets until you have received 1 bitcoin for each NYAN.A share you held. I stand by my contracts and I look after the people that trusted me and I hope you can appreciate that and remain patient in these dark times. For example I just got the complete list of asset holders yesterday (the 21st). So I hope you can appreciate I am doing my best to resolve this fairly and in your favor.

Claim No.   3
Participant:   [e-mail address]
Address:   [bitcoin address]
NYAN.A #   160
NYAN.A %   16.74%
BMF Owed   171
Change (BTC)   0.178870293

Please note that a market value for BMF shares has not yet been established. When it is established (on BitFunder and/or another exchange) I will mark the value of these shares off what you are owed as a NYAN investor. Again, this is 1 bitcoin per share of NYAN.A as specified in the contract. As a NYAN.A shareholder you will be paid first on everything NYAN held until you receive the full 1 bitcoin per share.

You have until the end of January, 2013, to reply to this message and inform me either: a) where to send the bitcoins, or b) which BitFunder account to send the shares you are owed. If I manage to list on btct.co I will send you another letter notifying you that you can also claim your shares there. If you do not respond to me by that time your BMF shares and/or value in kind (bitcoins) will be held for you by me personally until such time as you decide to claim them.

Thanks for your patience in this matter. My advice for right now is to sign up to BitFunder, claim your shares (tell me where to send them) and then wait as we collect assets and bitcoins and make payments to shareholders. If you are having trouble or do not wish to do this, just let me know where to send the liquidated value of your BMF shares.

Merry Christmas!

[EskimoBob]

Thank you for the email.
I think you need to start typing that apology letter for all the baseless lies you have spread about me in your forum posts. You know, those where you state for fact, that I lie about holding shares in one of those disasters of yours.

Start typing usagi and do not even thing about spinning some new crap in to your apology letter.

[EskimoBob]

  usagi, NYAN, BMF do not own DMC shares

Ouch!

[deeplink]

  usagi, NYAN, BMF do not own DMC shares

Ouch!

LOL and I thought usagi and DiabloD3 were partners in crime buddies.

[burnside]

OK.

We have new "complete" lists from Nefario, which include ALL investors. Some bitcoin addresses have been with-held ("contact for address") but I do now have all e-mails for everyone. Thank goodness I've waited until now to begin paying out claims ^^

I've applied to re-list on bitfunder and btct.co. if/when we get listed I will be sending out the relevant information to all shareholders.

There are substantial assets on these exchanges already more than 100 bitcoins in assets on bitfunder and probably twice that on btct.co already.

The current plan is to run a motion on the future direction of the company. The motion will last until January 27th (if and when we get listed). At that point we will either liquidate what we have, or continue paying monthly dividends. In that case I will be talking with a lawyer on incorporation, because investing is something I found I enjoyed doing.

This is really starting to look like I'll be able to finally get all the right things done. Thanks for your patience.

Make sure you browse to it in the market and unlock it.  Voting cannot begin until it is unlocked. 

[usagi]

Thank you for the email.
I think you need to start typing that apology letter for all the baseless lies you have spread about me in your forum posts. You know, those where you state for fact, that I lie about holding shares in one of those disasters of yours.

Start typing usagi and do not even thing about spinning some new crap in to your apology letter.

I'm probably not going to pay you or return your shares -- at least not without taking reparations for the damages you've caused my business. I've been in contact with an internet defamation lawyer for a couple of weeks now. I've already demonstrated defamation and financial damages. The main problem I face is jurisdiction; and therefore $$$. It's expensive. In your it might not be -- I have your hushmail address now, which is hosted in Canada (small world ehh) so I don't need to go through Theymos. That will end up saving me $1000 or so.

I'm still thinking how to proceed but whatever decision will involve a community-approved decision, so don't even bother whining about this, I'm just telling you what is going to happen and that it's out of your hands. I am going to assign a value to the damages you've caused me, which is at least the value of the BAKEWELL contract, and deduct that value from what you are owed. If you don't like this, my advice is that you issue an apology. Please understand, this isn't an issue of proving what you are owed; that's well known, and I've already demonstrated financial damages. It's similar to how Patrick Harnett and Hashking aren't going to get paid (or will get deductions) from the various businesses they invested in. Patrick Harnett had something like 10,000 shares of CPA -- but he owes CPA something like 100 or 150 bitcoins. So I will be deducting from him as well. It's just like that. No biggie. You fucked up, now you have to pay the price.

It is NOT okay that I have been called a fraud and a scam artist. It is NOT okay that you have said some of the things you have said, EskimoBob. I have a VERY good defamation case against quite a few people here. It's just expensive to pursue, that's all. So good luck EskimoBob -- my advice to you is to issue an apology and then DROP IT. It's not a threat -- it will become your defense. That's all. I'm going to do what I'm going to do. You go do what you need to do. The end.

[deeplink]

I have a VERY good defamation case against quite a few people here. It's just expensive to pursue, that's all.

Bring it on, asshat.