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Author Topic: The Case against Bitcoin OZ  (Read 7125 times)
usagi (OP)
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December 02, 2012, 04:36:43 PM
 #21

Quote from: usagi
If you can just give me an apology for what you said and then stop, I won't have any complaint here, I will forgive you, and will not pursue this matter any further in any regard. I really do not want to be in this thread right now so let's just close it okay?

You and augustocroppo must be getting pretty desperate to resort to blackmail. Someone getting a little too close?

"In common usage, blackmail is a crime involving unjustified threats to make a gain or cause loss to another unless a demand is met."

You just accused me of committing a crime. I therefore request a formal apology. Do you see how this works? It is not blackmail. Look it up. You accuse me of a crime... I ask for an apology... and so on. This is how it's done. That isn't blackmail. Please see (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_threat) specifically the following (which of course is just a non-official opinion, but is still interesting in light of the general level of legal knowledge you've presented here):


Effect of legal threat

For the most part a legal threat is of no legal significance other than a matter of negotiation tactics; however, in certain instances a legal threat does have some legal significance. Among other things a legal threat may do the following:

-- Establish notice - the party receiving the threat, and the party making the threat, are "on notice" of the circumstances and cannot later claim they were unaware.
-- Constitute extortion, blackmail, or some other crime or tort involving improper threats of harm: for example, it is considered unethical, and in some cases a crime, to threaten to report criminal conduct to the police unless a settlement is reached.
-- In some circumstances, a claim (veiled or not) that a party will take action based on alleged violation of the law gives rise to a right by the receiving party to bring an action for declaratory judgment that it has not broken the law: for example, if the holder of a trademark claims that a party is infringing a trademark, that party may bring suit asking a court to declare that there is in fact no infringement.


In particular to the above, (1) I have asked people to stop. (2) I have not threatened to report any criminal conduct. I assure you that all criminal conduct I am aware of is, will be, or has been disclosed to the proper authorities. There is no condition on this; Some people here are in serious hot water right now. Don't doubt that for a second Mr. Bear. (3) In line with what Deprived said; I am now free to bring suit against anyone to show that I am not, in fact, insolvent. Among other charges laid against me in these forums.

However, I have not said I will do so. No legal threat has been made -- not even a veiled legal threat such as mentioning a referral to council, or a cease and desist letter, for example. I've said nothing. Feel free to quote me on this. And yes I realize I am going up against a global moderator here. Which is what makes this case particularly important for both parties; you should quote me and explain why you believe I resorted to blackmail, or you should apologize. That is nothing but a personal request at this stage -- and I hope you do not treat it as irreverently as you have done my previous requests for you to stop making such statements. Do you see how this works now? You accuse me of something, I'm going to have to first ask you to apologize. You are being notified that what you are doing is not proper.

In addition to their legal significance, legal threats may create a number of practical results:

-- Intimidating a party into acquiescing to the demand, whether or not there is a legal basis for it, out of fear of litigation expense, negative publicity, loss of entitlement (e.g. losing a business license), or other negative consequence
-- Alerting a party to illegal conduct it was unaware of, or that it did not realize was illegal or objectionable
-- Risking public disclosure of the threat, thereby portraying the party making the threat in a bad light (see the Streisand effect)


I particularly note item #2, that if you were not aware that (accusing me of blackmail) was illegal, YOU HAVE NOW BEEN MADE FULLY AWARE. And, all I'm asking for is an apology. Get it?
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usagi (OP)
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December 02, 2012, 04:57:24 PM
 #22

You and augustocroppo must be getting pretty desperate to resort to blackmail. Someone getting a little too close?

Further to this, you are starting to show extreme hypocrisy. How dare you sit there and accuse me of blackmail, when you have black and white evidence that Ian Bakewell attempted to blackmail me in PM, for the sole purpose of defrauding CPA and it's customers? Why don't you go do something about that instead? I even made a post on the Scam Accusation forum about it. You said yourself that it has to involve financial damages. Well it does, and provable ones, from Ian's own mouth. Blackmail has specific provisions for this exact purpose in many countries (let's quote the flavor of the month; Australia this time): "a threat to publish attacks on a company calculated to lower the value of its shares" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmail#Victoria.2C_Australia).

Do you realize what you have done here? The least of my complaints against you is that you are a poor moderator, and that you are.

You have shown bias, malice, and you have accused me of a crime. I would very much like an apology for the things you've said here.
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December 02, 2012, 09:27:33 PM
 #23

This thread looks like a good way to ensure you never get your shares back from asset issuers.

I landed in this country with $2.50 in cash and $1 million in hopes, and those hopes never left me.
usagi (OP)
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December 02, 2012, 10:24:04 PM
 #24

This thread looks like a good way to ensure you never get your shares back from asset issuers.

How so? BitcoinOZ started attacking me on the forums. His intent MAY have been to get out of returning shares to me, yes, but that's not my fault.

I don't suppose it helps to point out that random people walking in here and posting only serves to illustrate why I cannot ignore this and I have to fight it. Some people who should have known better have said some very irresponsible things recently...
usagi (OP)
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December 02, 2012, 10:53:58 PM
 #25

This thread looks like a good way to ensure you never get your shares back from asset issuers.

How so? BitcoinOZ started attacking me on the forums. His intent MAY have been to get out of returning shares to me, yes, but that's not my fault.

I don't suppose it helps to point out that random people walking in here and posting only serves to illustrate why I cannot ignore this and I have to fight it. Some people who should have known better have said some very irresponsible things recently...

Augusto wandered in here and doxed someone who he hadnt spoken to before on the forum. Exactly what motivation is there to do such a  thing to a total stranger you have had zero interactions with unless you are somehow in a  relationship with the op ? Its quite obvious there is some financial or other motivation going on and Augusto is a shill of some sort.

Pretending to know more about BitcoinGlobal than you actually do. Thats the definition of pretentious  Smiley

I didn't say I know more about bitcoin global than I do. That was your mistake -- you said I claimed to have access to the logs. I did not claim any such thing. I said I had access to the financial records, and I also explained to you how I got them -- from Theymos, as a bidder.
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December 02, 2012, 11:17:02 PM
Last edit: December 03, 2012, 02:21:28 AM by augustocroppo
 #26

Its quite obvious there is some financial or other motivation going on and Augusto is a shill of some sort.

There is not. You have been exposed. You are a liar. You are looking for excuses to disguise your actions.

Pretending to know more about BitcoinGlobal than you actually do. Thats the definition of pretentious  Smiley

I do not pretended to know what you are suggesting. I caught you lying:

Fuck off weirdo.

What...

Are you lying? Usagi did not admitted what you alleged:

Quote
<usagi> hai, stopped in to get a payment from someone and saw you here
<usagi> Mind if I ask you why you are on the warpath against me?
<usagi> I used to think we were business compatriots, you know, I supported your business and it seemed cool till you started attacking me -- Did I do something to you?
<usagi> I mean you said stuff like if I can't provide a proper accounting I/cpa must be insolvent. But it seems like your accusation is a little hollow. When you were voting on whether or not to give nefario a laptop bitcoin global's accounting was pretty shoddy
<usagi> You (you) gave him carte blanche to buy a laptop and GLBSE would pay for 50% of it
<usagi> Did you ever follow up on that? Did you get a reciept?
<usagi> I have access to the financial documents of bitcoin global from that time.
<usagi> I don't see anything about a laptop.
<usagi> You get what I am saying? I don't understand why you would say that about me when it's really the kind of thing you yourself did
<usagi> There are a lot of other examples
<usagi> I'm puzzled
<usagi> Why are you doing this to me?
<usagi> I also noticed the video you put up on your youtube channel.
<usagi> You know, the one with coinabul.com as contact info?
<usagi> Not sure what you are trying to show with that. Lol, are you trying to get fired?
<usagi> What's gotten into you man
<usagi> Well look I gotta go
<usagi> I need to talk to you about this before I go public with it
<usagi> Send me a pm about it.
<usagi> Cuz I totally don't get why you are trolling me on the forums. Bye.
* usagi has quit ()
* tsukino has quit ()

Usagi contacted me on irc and said they have access to all the bitcoinglobal meeting logs.

Moreover, you did not participate in that chat? Where is your nickname? Where is the details between the parenthesis when Usagi quit?

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[2012-11-05 18:30] * shilohsandi (~parmablac@unaffiliated/kalacoa) Quit
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December 02, 2012, 11:44:43 PM
 #27

Augusto, a question if I may. What the hell is that... thing... on your head. Do they not have barbers where you live?
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December 03, 2012, 05:03:23 AM
 #28

Bitcoin Oz deserves a scammer tag for misrepresenting him as a "Marketing Executive" of coinabul. If I went on #bitcoin-otc, changed my name to a well known member of this forum that didn't have enforce on, said in the channel that I'm that person, then I'd have got a scammer tag even if I didn't actually conduct any trades.
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December 03, 2012, 05:51:37 AM
 #29

Bitcoin Oz deserves a scammer tag for misrepresenting him as a "Marketing Executive" of coinabul. If I went on #bitcoin-otc, changed my name to a well known member of this forum that didn't have enforce on, said in the channel that I'm that person, then I'd have got a scammer tag even if I didn't actually conduct any trades.

Didn't some guy once get a scammer tag for playing a prank in #bitcoin-otc?

I find this interesting:

...
There should be repurcussions for lapses in judgement.
...

Also, there is a reason the SEC requires financial disclosures for publicly traded securities.  There is no way to prove a business is reporting their information faithfully unless auditors or other 3rd parties are looking through the information.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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