mBTC on kano.is was Re: Nexious.com WARNING POOL OPERATOR IS NOT PAYING NOR RESPONDING

[.anto.]

Ok... now if we go back to my original statement, with Eligius, you can never, ever make more than that 0.064146152448BTC in those 12 weeks.  On kano, you can make more than that, or you can make less.  Kano's pool has, since inception, been running about 101% luck.  That has no bearing on future luck - it is just a metric of past performance.  However, it is a metric that shows had you been mining on Eligius for the past year and on kano for the past year, given identical hash rates on each pool, you would have made more on kano.

I have been mining on Kano's pool from 20/11/2015 until now or about 7 days and I have got only 1.5 mBTC in total from blocks 384498, 384724, 384805 and 385383. If I would have mined on Eligius, I would have made about 5 mBTC. On Antpool, I would have made about 4 mBTC. How would that be practically possible to make more BTC on Kano's pool than Eligius, even if I would mine on Kano's pool for a year?

[kano]

Ok... now if we go back to my original statement, with Eligius, you can never, ever make more than that 0.064146152448BTC in those 12 weeks.  On kano, you can make more than that, or you can make less.  Kano's pool has, since inception, been running about 101% luck.  That has no bearing on future luck - it is just a metric of past performance.  However, it is a metric that shows had you been mining on Eligius for the past year and on kano for the past year, given identical hash rates on each pool, you would have made more on kano.

I have been mining on Kano's pool from 20/11/2015 until now or about 7 days and I have got only 1.5 mBTC in total from blocks 384498, 384724, 384805 and 385383. If I would have mined on Eligius, I would have made about 5 mBTC. On Antpool, I would have made about 4 mBTC. How would that be practically possible to make more BTC on Kano's pool than Eligius, even if I would mine on Kano's pool for a year?

Please, don't mine on my pool.

[.anto.]

Ok... now if we go back to my original statement, with Eligius, you can never, ever make more than that 0.064146152448BTC in those 12 weeks.  On kano, you can make more than that, or you can make less.  Kano's pool has, since inception, been running about 101% luck.  That has no bearing on future luck - it is just a metric of past performance.  However, it is a metric that shows had you been mining on Eligius for the past year and on kano for the past year, given identical hash rates on each pool, you would have made more on kano.

I have been mining on Kano's pool from 20/11/2015 until now or about 7 days and I have got only 1.5 mBTC in total from blocks 384498, 384724, 384805 and 385383. If I would have mined on Eligius, I would have made about 5 mBTC. On Antpool, I would have made about 4 mBTC. How would that be practically possible to make more BTC on Kano's pool than Eligius, even if I would mine on Kano's pool for a year?

Please, don't mine on my pool.

You can be sure that I will not mine on your pool even if I would have 1 Th/s hashrate. I thought I could make more on your pool so I can just ignore your behaviours toward Eligius pool, wizkid057 and Luke. But I am wrong about that.

[philipma1957]

Ok... now if we go back to my original statement, with Eligius, you can never, ever make more than that 0.064146152448BTC in those 12 weeks.  On kano, you can make more than that, or you can make less.  Kano's pool has, since inception, been running about 101% luck.  That has no bearing on future luck - it is just a metric of past performance.  However, it is a metric that shows had you been mining on Eligius for the past year and on kano for the past year, given identical hash rates on each pool, you would have made more on kano.

I have been mining on Kano's pool from 20/11/2015 until now or about 7 days and I have got only 1.5 mBTC in total from blocks 384498, 384724, 384805 and 385383. If I would have mined on Eligius, I would have made about 5 mBTC. On Antpool, I would have made about 4 mBTC. How would that be practically possible to make more BTC on Kano's pool than Eligius, even if I would mine on Kano's pool for a year?

Please, don't mine on my pool.

You can be sure that I will not mine on your pool even if I would have 1 Th/s hashrate. I thought I could make more on your pool so I can just ignore your behaviours toward Eligius pool, wizkid057 and Luke. But I am wrong about that.

Don't know you at all and I am not going to attack you and defend Kano. 

But based on your writings you are better off not mining with Kano.

Simply put your writings if sincere show you don't understand the math involved.

[.anto.]

Simply put your writings if sincere show you don't understand the math involved.

Yes, indeed I don't understand the math involved in Bitcoin mining because everything are only about possibilities and probabilities, so math in this case does not exactly give me 1+1=2. I have been looking for practical answer as there are a lot of other factors involved.

[os2sam]

Simply put your writings if sincere show you don't understand the math involved.

Yes, indeed I don't understand the math involved in Bitcoin mining because everything are only about possibilities and probabilities, so math in this case does not exactly give me 1+1=2. I have been looking for practical answer as there are a lot of other factors involved.

Why are you posting in a thread that has nothing to do with any of the pools your talking about?

You need to read up on how PPLNS works.  It can be difficult to understand at first.

[.anto.]

Simply put your writings if sincere show you don't understand the math involved.

Yes, indeed I don't understand the math involved in Bitcoin mining because everything are only about possibilities and probabilities, so math in this case does not exactly give me 1+1=2. I have been looking for practical answer as there are a lot of other factors involved.

Why are you posting in a thread that has nothing to do with any of the pools your talking about?

You need to read up on how PPLNS works.  It can be difficult to understand at first.

I am not sure if I understood your question.

I have read the explanations about PPLNS and Jonny even gave me more detail calculation about that. But to me that is just theory as in practice or in reality, the result is totally different.

[jonnybravo0311]

Ok... now if we go back to my original statement, with Eligius, you can never, ever make more than that 0.064146152448BTC in those 12 weeks.  On kano, you can make more than that, or you can make less.  Kano's pool has, since inception, been running about 101% luck.  That has no bearing on future luck - it is just a metric of past performance.  However, it is a metric that shows had you been mining on Eligius for the past year and on kano for the past year, given identical hash rates on each pool, you would have made more on kano.

I have been mining on Kano's pool from 20/11/2015 until now or about 7 days and I have got only 1.5 mBTC in total from blocks 384498, 384724, 384805 and 385383. If I would have mined on Eligius, I would have made about 5 mBTC. On Antpool, I would have made about 4 mBTC. How would that be practically possible to make more BTC on Kano's pool than Eligius, even if I would mine on Kano's pool for a year?

You mined for 7 days.  What you're not getting here is that your shares on kano's pool are valid for 5N (N on his pool is the network difficulty).  Even if you turned off your miners, you will continue to earn on the shares until they fall out of the 5N range.  So, every block between now and when your last share falls away will net you some BTC.

It's how PPLNS works.  You have a "ramp up" and "ramp down" period.

[kano]

Nah it's even simpler than that.
If the next few blocks have low luck, he's gonna lose out for mining on my pool.
If the next few block have good luck, he's gonna win from mining at my pool.
It's a small pool in terms of the network size.

Yes the payout drop off is long also (about 8 days at the moment)
But the amount received during that drop off is also dependent upon luck.

There's also a web page that covers most of this and includes some rather simple points about luck.
https://kano.is/index.php?k=payout

e.g.
"So each share will be paid approximately 1/5 of it's expected value, in each block it gets a reward,"

"If pool luck is better than 100%, then the average share reward will be better than 5 times.
If pool luck is lower than 100%, then the average share reward will be less than 5 times."

They are the relevant points for anyone looking at short term payouts.

--

Long term is shown quite clearly on the blocks page.
https://kano.is/index.php?k=blocks

Though I also include the short term there at the top: 5 blocks, 10 blocks, 25 blocks.

--

... and of course the 2 most important points to understand about pool luck:

1) comparing luck is not time based - it's share based
If you compare 2 pools you must compare relative to the number of shares submitted ... i.e. pool size directly affect the validity of how you compare them

2) there are factors in "pool luck" that are NOT purely luck based

[gecox22]

Ok... now if we go back to my original statement, with Eligius, you can never, ever make more than that 0.064146152448BTC in those 12 weeks.  On kano, you can make more than that, or you can make less.  Kano's pool has, since inception, been running about 101% luck.  That has no bearing on future luck - it is just a metric of past performance.  However, it is a metric that shows had you been mining on Eligius for the past year and on kano for the past year, given identical hash rates on each pool, you would have made more on kano.

I have been mining on Kano's pool from 20/11/2015 until now or about 7 days and I have got only 1.5 mBTC in total from blocks 384498, 384724, 384805 and 385383. If I would have mined on Eligius, I would have made about 5 mBTC. On Antpool, I would have made about 4 mBTC. How would that be practically possible to make more BTC on Kano's pool than Eligius, even if I would mine on Kano's pool for a year?

I get what he is saying, but he is taking it out of context for one. Yea if you would have mined on the other pools you could have maybe made more if they found blocks during your 7 day trail period. Just like if Kano would have found more block you would have made some more at kano's pools and you cant take two different types of pool pay outs and pin them against one other. I have mined at kano's pool and I mine at a couple of others. I do know if I stay at kano's pool I would make more in the long run if his pool was finding blocks just as fast as the other pools. Since his pool is smaller compared to others your reward will be bigger than say if you mined at eligius pool.

Lets say you were mining with 1.5 ths like me. If Kano's pool finds a block I make roughly .01 and some change per block. If I take the same speed and mine at Eligius pool I make roughly around .003 per block. Now since Eligius pool finds more blocks per day than kano's pool it will most likely equal out to around .009 per day versus .01 from one block at Kano's.

But here is the downside to that. If Kano's pool has longer block and it takes two day to find one. Then I am still only getting .01 for that one block. Or even if it take 7 days to get that one block I am still only getting .01 currently. but since kano's pools pays on 5n my share will keep getting paid on the next couple of blocks if they are found with in the 5n range. So my earnings at kano's so shares could be paid out over 5 times. So my earnings will still keep trickling even after I stop mining. As long as blocks are still found.

This does not happen at lets say eliguis. If I mine at eligius for the same amount of time and we only find 1 block just like kano's my share or earning will still only be .003 but if they find more like they do my earns per day could reach the .01 or in my case .009. But If I turn my miners to another pool my earns drop off almost instantly after about 3 hours. This means my shares I have submitted stop making money and I do not have any more trickling in.  

For me to reach payout on eligiuis I have to mine almost 4 day straight non stop If they find enough blocks for me to reach payout some times it is longer and sometime it is shorter all depending on the luck of the pool finding block.

I completely forgot where I was going with this. But in the end it is all about how you like to mine. Do you like to receive one big payout that may or may not have more earning trickling in over time or receive a bunch of smaller rewards till you reach payout that will stop almost instantaneous once you stop mining.

I love Kano's pool I really do. I would have my miners on his pool now but I am trying something different just to get a feel on how other systems work. After trying various differnt pools I do like Kano's the best. I just hate how long it takes to find a block some times which has nothing to do how his pools payouts out but only by the speed of his pool and luck.

And why the hell did you include Nexious scammer @SS pool into this mix. It has nothing to do with how Kano's pool operates or any one else pool for that matter. Nexious was a scammer from the beginning. His pool found one block and he ran off with the reward and didn't pay his miners. Kano's pool has never done that and has built huge amounts of trust within the community. The verbal war between pools only amounts to the lack of knowledge that surrounds the pool operator's that comes from noobs that have no clue on how mining accurately works. You most likely went to bitcoin profitability calculator punched in some numbers and it said you are supposed to make this much per day per week per month. I would love for some one to show me any where that works 100% of the time. So I can jump on that train and raise my profits. Because the profit only amounts to the luck of the pool finding blocks.

I am far from an expert in pools and mining. But have come to realize who knows there stuff and who doesn't. Kano's for one Knows his stuff inside and out.

*Edited for spelling and grammar LOL* I need to learn to proof read before hitting the send button

[.anto.]

Ok... now if we go back to my original statement, with Eligius, you can never, ever make more than that 0.064146152448BTC in those 12 weeks.  On kano, you can make more than that, or you can make less.  Kano's pool has, since inception, been running about 101% luck.  That has no bearing on future luck - it is just a metric of past performance.  However, it is a metric that shows had you been mining on Eligius for the past year and on kano for the past year, given identical hash rates on each pool, you would have made more on kano.

I have been mining on Kano's pool from 20/11/2015 until now or about 7 days and I have got only 1.5 mBTC in total from blocks 384498, 384724, 384805 and 385383. If I would have mined on Eligius, I would have made about 5 mBTC. On Antpool, I would have made about 4 mBTC. How would that be practically possible to make more BTC on Kano's pool than Eligius, even if I would mine on Kano's pool for a year?

I get what he is saying, but he is taking it out of context for one. Yea if you would have mined on the other pools you could have maybe made more if they found blocks during your 7 day trail period. Just like if Kano would have found more block you would have made some more at kano's pools and you cant take two differnt types of pool pay outs and pin them against one other. I have mined at kano's pool and I mine at a couple of others. I do know if I stay at kano's pool I would make more in the long run if his pool was finding blocks just as fast as the other pools. Since his pool is smaller compared to others your reward will be bigger than say if you mined at eligius pool.

Lets say you were mining with 1.5 ths like me. If Kano's pool finds a block I make roughly .01 and some change per block. If I take the same speed and mine at Eligius pool I make roughly around .003 per block. Now since Eligius pool finds more blocks per day than kano's pool it will most likely equal out to around .009 per day versus .01 from one block at Kano's.

But here is the downside to that. If Kano's pool has longer block and it takes two day to find one. Then I am still only getting .01 for that one block. Or even if it take 7 days to get that one block I am still only getting .01 currently. but since kano's pools pays on 5n my share will keep getting paid on the next couple of blocks if they are found with in the 5n range. So my earnings at kano's so shares could be paid out over 5 times. So my earnings will still keep trickleing even after I stop mining. As long as blocks are still found.

This does not happen at lets say eliguis. If I mine at eligius for the same amount of time and we only find 1 block just like kano's my share or earnsing will still only be .003 but if they find more like they do my earns per day could reach the .01 or in my incase .009. But If I turn my miners to another pool my earns drop off almost instantly after about 3 hours. This means my shares I have submitted stop making money and I do not have any more trickling in.  

For me to reach payout on eligiuis I have to mine almost 4 day straight non stop If they find enough blocks for me to reach payout some times it is longer and sometime it is shorter all depending on the luck of the pool finding block.

I completely forgot where I was going with this. But in the end it is all about how you like to mine. Do you like to receive one big payout that may or may not have more earning trickling in over time or receive a bunch of smaller rewards till you reach payout that will stop almost instantaneous once you stop mining.

I love Kano's pool I really do. I would have my miners on his pool now but I am trying something different just to get a feel on how other systems work. After trying various differnt pools I do like Kano's the best. I just hate how long it takes to find a block some times which has nothing to do how his pools payouts out but only by the speed of his pool and luck.

And why the hell did you include Nexious scammer @SS pool into this mix. It has nothing to do with how Kano's pool operates or any one esles pool for that matter. Nexious was a scammer from the beginning. His pool found one block and he ran off with the reward and didnt pay his Miners. Kano's pool has never don't that has built huge amounts of trust within the community. The verbal war between pools only amounts to the lack of knowledge that surrounds the pool operates that comes from noobs like you that have no clue on how mining accurately works. You most likely went to bitcoin profitability calculator punched in some number and it said you are supposed ot make this much per day per week per month. I would love for some one to show me any where that works 100% of the time. So I can join on that trained. because the profit only amounts to the luck of the pool finding blocks.

I am far from a expert in pools and mining. But have come to realize who knows there stuff and who doesn't. Kano's for one Knows his stuff inside and out.

Thanks for your long explanation. By the way, I would not raise questions about dust payout if I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate. It would have been much easier for me to choose the pool.

I didn't intentionally create this thread. It was moved from Nexious scammer thread by the admin. My posts on the thread was actually triggered by Kano's comment on Eligius pool. I hope that clears it up.

[os2sam]

I would not raise questions about dust payout if I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate

What was your question about dust payout?  I missed that.

[.anto.]

I would not raise questions about dust payout if I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate

What was your question about dust payout?  I missed that.

The dust payout that I meant is the payout below 1 mBTC per day that I always get using my 100 Gh/s miners. Since I have seen Kano's negative comments toward Eligius pool, I got the impression that his pool is better than Eligius and that triggered my question on this post which in the end led me to try Kano's pool with the hope that I can have better dust payout. If I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate, I would not bother to get better dust payout as I mentioned on my comment that you quoted above.

[kano]

I would not raise questions about dust payout if I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate

What was your question about dust payout?  I missed that.

The dust payout that I meant is the payout below 1 mBTC per day that I always get using my 100 Gh/s miners. Since I have seen Kano's negative comments toward Eligius pool, I got the impression that his pool is better than Eligius and that triggered my question on this post which in the end led me to try Kano's pool with the hope that I can have better dust payout. If I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate, I would not bother to get better dust payout as I mentioned on my comment that you quoted above.

Yep on my pool your dust only shows in your account.
(payments under 0.00010000)
I've not sent any yet to anyone (but one person long ago) since the pool started.
I imagine there may be a few miners with as much as $1 or $2 worth of dust not sent.

As I've said, one day ... in a galaxy far far away ... I'll add accounting to the web site and thus the unpaid balances will be correctly identified and it will know which have been sent and haven't been sent.
Then I'll sort out a way to send the dust ... which poses a problem coz sending dust on it's own costs more than the dust.
Merging it into current miners payouts will not be a problem I don't think.
I'll probably have to push the other dust transactions into our blocks and solve it that way.

[gecox22]

I would not raise questions about dust payout if I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate

What was your question about dust payout?  I missed that.

The dust payout that I meant is the payout below 1 mBTC per day that I always get using my 100 Gh/s miners. Since I have seen Kano's negative comments toward Eligius pool, I got the impression that his pool is better than Eligius and that triggered my question on this post which in the end led me to try Kano's pool with the hope that I can have better dust payout. If I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate, I would not bother to get better dust payout as I mentioned on my comment that you quoted above.

Yep on my pool your dust only shows in your account.
(payments under 0.00010000)
I've not sent any yet to anyone (but one person long ago) since the pool started.
I imagine there may be a few miners with as much as $1 or $2 worth of dust not sent.

As I've said, one day ... in a galaxy far far away ... I'll add accounting to the web site and thus the unpaid balances will be correctly identified and it will know which have been sent and haven't been sent.
Then I'll sort out a way to send the dust ... which poses a problem coz sending dust on it's own costs more than the dust.
Merging it into current miners payouts will not be a problem I don't think.
I'll probably have to push the other dust transactions into our blocks and solve it that way.

Granted every one is paid for what they mine. Weather it be dust or not. But if the transaction fees do not cover the dust payment then a minimal payout should be set  and posted  which I would assume there already is one. But after looking at website again, and unless I missed it. I don't see any were that states what the minimal payout will or should be. Maybe it might help to added that little remark somewhere. Not like they will read it before posting about this again. But I know I have seen this type of conversation before about dust payouts on kano's pool.

Just my suggestion.

[kano]

Actually it says it on the Payments page if you get one under 0.00010000 a *
and below the payouts it says "* Dust payments are not automatically sent out"
(if there are any)

I have said it many times in the kano.is thread also.

Anyway I added another comment at the top of the Payments page also.
"Dust payments below 0.00010000 BTC are not sent out yet."

[gecox22]

Actually it says it on the Payments page if you get one under 0.00010000 a *
and below the payouts it says "* Dust payments are not automatically sent out"
(if there are any)

I have said it many times in the kano.is thread also.

Anyway I added another comment at the top of the Payments page also.
"Dust payments below 0.00010000 BTC are not sent out yet."

Haha See I knew I missed it. I did not scroll all the way down the page. I thought it would have been in payouts as well. But looks good for sure. Thanks Kano!

[.anto.]

I would not raise questions about dust payout if I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate

What was your question about dust payout?  I missed that.

The dust payout that I meant is the payout below 1 mBTC per day that I always get using my 100 Gh/s miners. Since I have seen Kano's negative comments toward Eligius pool, I got the impression that his pool is better than Eligius and that triggered my question on this post which in the end led me to try Kano's pool with the hope that I can have better dust payout. If I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate, I would not bother to get better dust payout as I mentioned on my comment that you quoted above.

Yep on my pool your dust only shows in your account.
(payments under 0.00010000)
I've not sent any yet to anyone (but one person long ago) since the pool started.
I imagine there may be a few miners with as much as $1 or $2 worth of dust not sent.

As I've said, one day ... in a galaxy far far away ... I'll add accounting to the web site and thus the unpaid balances will be correctly identified and it will know which have been sent and haven't been sent.
Then I'll sort out a way to send the dust ... which poses a problem coz sending dust on it's own costs more than the dust.
Merging it into current miners payouts will not be a problem I don't think.
I'll probably have to push the other dust transactions into our blocks and solve it that way.

Hi Kano,

I think I have caused confusion using the term "dust payout". I am sorry for that.

I am not demanding to get a payout below 0.1 mBTC. It is clear to me that your payout threshold is set to 0.1 mBTC to avoid paying transaction fee more than the payout itself. I perfectly understand that. So I don't think you need to bother to spend time trying to work on that because some people demanding that, as you might have to bear the cost for the transaction fees.

Perhaps I should have used the term "penny payout". So in relation to my posts quoted above, I would not bother to raise the questions getting better "penny payout", i.e. payout below 1 mBTC, if I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate as I could easily exceed the threshold payouts of any pools in days instead of weeks.

Cheers,

Anto

[gecox22]

I would not raise questions about dust payout if I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate

What was your question about dust payout?  I missed that.

The dust payout that I meant is the payout below 1 mBTC per day that I always get using my 100 Gh/s miners. Since I have seen Kano's negative comments toward Eligius pool, I got the impression that his pool is better than Eligius and that triggered my question on this post which in the end led me to try Kano's pool with the hope that I can have better dust payout. If I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate, I would not bother to get better dust payout as I mentioned on my comment that you quoted above.

Yep on my pool your dust only shows in your account.
(payments under 0.00010000)
I've not sent any yet to anyone (but one person long ago) since the pool started.
I imagine there may be a few miners with as much as $1 or $2 worth of dust not sent.

As I've said, one day ... in a galaxy far far away ... I'll add accounting to the web site and thus the unpaid balances will be correctly identified and it will know which have been sent and haven't been sent.
Then I'll sort out a way to send the dust ... which poses a problem coz sending dust on it's own costs more than the dust.
Merging it into current miners payouts will not be a problem I don't think.
I'll probably have to push the other dust transactions into our blocks and solve it that way.

Hi Kano,

I think I have caused confusion using the term "dust payout". I am sorry for that.

I am not demanding to get a payout below 0.1 mBTC. It is clear to me that your payout threshold is set to 0.1 mBTC to avoid paying transaction fee more than the payout itself. I perfectly understand that. So I don't think you need to bother to spend time trying to work on that because some people demanding that, as you might have to bear the cost for the transaction fees.

Perhaps I should have used the term "penny payout". So in relation to my posts quoted above, I would not bother to raise the questions getting better "penny payout", i.e. payout below 1 mBTC, if I would have 1.5 Th/s hashrate as I could easily exceed the threshold payouts of any pools in days instead of weeks.

Cheers,

Anto

As I previously read I think you mining with only 100ghs correct? May I ask why? Also where are you located? I may have a deal for you if you are in the us. To get you a little more ghs. if you are in the US leave your zipcode and I will post my offer for you here.

[.anto.]

As I previously read I think you mining with only 100ghs correct? May I ask why? Also where are you located? I may have a deal for you if you are in the us. To get you a little more ghs. if you are in the US leave your zipcode and I will post my offer for you here.

Unfortunately, I am not living in the US. As I have put into my profile on this forum, I am living in Vienna, Austria. I have only 3 Antminer U3 miners but only 2 of them actively mining on public pool servers. So yes, practically I only use about 100 Gh/s hashrate for trying the pools. I am using the other miner for testing and learning about the miner software and pool server software on my spare time.

As to why I have only that much of hashrates, I am just a hobbyist miner and I don't want to put too much investment on this. I can definitely buy Antminer S7 for instance, but I still don't think I would make profit in short period of time due to the cost of the electricity. And there is no space in my apartment to put big mining rigs. I also tried renting the hashrates but I practically didn't make anything out of it even I have mined on Antpool which always find a new block at least every hour.