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niemivh (OP)
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June 06, 2011, 06:56:17 PM |
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I just sent this off to Ron Paul. It's not a treatise on the subject, but I think if we all petition Ron Paul and other like-minded (are their any?) congressional members we might be able to preempt some sort of knee-jerk establishment backlash. Get politically active! Sitting around smugly saying that "SR is on Tor", "Bitcoins CAN'T be taken down" is just foolish chest thumping. This is going to come to a political head sometime soon and we need some representation. The Establishment CAN do damage to this system and they WILL try.
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Bitcoins represent a new paradigm in online exchange. It is decentralized, anonymous system of exchange that is a true revolution in the way people trade over the internet. As this system as a known amount of growth it isn't at the discretion of any person to 'print more money' beyond the specified and unchangeable rate of growth that is built into this system. For this reason this is a viable alternative to Paypal and online systems that wire money from one place to another.
The radical implications of this are hard to fathom unless you take it open yourself to go and research how this all works. Once you do that you'll understand that this is the biggest revolution in exchange since perhaps the advent of fraction reserve banking or before that of paper currency. To say that is going to change the way we look at money forever is perhaps an understatement. As you are a known champion of individual rights and liberty for the 'little people' I trust you'll look into this system extensively and fight against the forces the pawns of Wall Street and will, with their knee-jerk oligarchial MO, try and shut down anything beyond their control.
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I'll keep my politics out of your economics if you keep your economics out of my politics.
16LdMA6pCgq9ULrstHmiwwwbGe1BJQyDqr
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Anonymous
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June 06, 2011, 06:57:57 PM |
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What we need are some Bitcoin lobbyists in congress. Hopefully we can put some Bitcoins in the politicians pockets while we are at it.
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jimbobway
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June 06, 2011, 07:58:47 PM |
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this is a great idea!
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kokjo
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You are WRONG!
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June 06, 2011, 08:01:42 PM |
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can you write to a congressperson, even if you are not a US citizen? will they listen?
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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evoorhees
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Democracy is the original 51% attack
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June 06, 2011, 08:09:23 PM |
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can you write to a congressperson, even if you are not a US citizen? will they listen?
They'll listen to a non-citizen just as well as they listen to a citizen. |
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b2931938
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June 06, 2011, 08:11:36 PM |
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can you write to a congressperson, even if you are not a US citizen? will they listen?
They'll listen to a non-citizen just as well as they listen to a citizen. I loled. I spoke to Loretta Sanchez today in person (details in this thread http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12723.0 ) |
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cloud9
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June 06, 2011, 08:12:58 PM |
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Bitcoins represent a new paradigm in online exchange. It is decentralized, anonymous system of exchange that is a true revolution in the way people trade over the internet.
You said Bitcoins is anonymous. Is that true in its standard form or is it true when someone takes the willful decision to launder his bitcoins? Isn't this anonymous/pseudonymous property that people so freely add to bitcoins (your entry/exit point to bitcoin is known if it is a company or tax reporting individual and there's a blockchain recording every transfer!!), unfairly harming bitcoins (as bitcoin exists in its standard form, not a derived laundered form)? |
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Anonymous
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June 06, 2011, 08:14:14 PM |
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Bitcoins represent a new paradigm in online exchange. It is decentralized, anonymous system of exchange that is a true revolution in the way people trade over the internet.
You said Bitcoins is anonymous. Is that true in its standard form or is it true when someone takes the willful decision to launder his bitcoins? Isn't this anonymous/pseudonymous property that people so freely add to bitcoins, unfairly harming bitcoins (as bitcoin exists in its standard form not a derived laundered form)? No. It's like saying people killing each other with hammers unfairly harms hammers as a tool. |
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MoonShadow
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June 06, 2011, 08:24:00 PM |
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Bitcoins represent a new paradigm in online exchange. It is decentralized, anonymous system of exchange that is a true revolution in the way people trade over the internet.
You said Bitcoins is anonymous. Is that true in its standard form or is it true when someone takes the willful decision to launder his bitcoins? Bitcoin is only anonymous with great care from the user, and advance planning. The key is that it's possible to be anonymous with bitcoin, while also being fairly convient online. This is not a possible combination with any other existing payment method. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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cloud9
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June 06, 2011, 08:32:48 PM |
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Bitcoins represent a new paradigm in online exchange. It is decentralized, anonymous system of exchange that is a true revolution in the way people trade over the internet.
You said Bitcoins is anonymous. Is that true in its standard form or is it true when someone takes the willful decision to launder his bitcoins? Bitcoin is only anonymous with great care from the user, and advance planning. The key is that it's possible to be anonymous with bitcoin, while also being fairly convient online. This is not a possible combination with any other existing payment method. Can't even paypal be used for laundering? If Sam buys socks for John, and John buys drugs for Sam at Silk Road by paying Silk Road's Skype account, haven't they just been laundering paypal credit? Should paypal be banned if it enables people to buy drugs anonymously? Or should paypal credit laundering be banned? |
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MoonShadow
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June 06, 2011, 08:38:23 PM |
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Bitcoins represent a new paradigm in online exchange. It is decentralized, anonymous system of exchange that is a true revolution in the way people trade over the internet.
You said Bitcoins is anonymous. Is that true in its standard form or is it true when someone takes the willful decision to launder his bitcoins? Bitcoin is only anonymous with great care from the user, and advance planning. The key is that it's possible to be anonymous with bitcoin, while also being fairly convient online. This is not a possible combination with any other existing payment method. Can't even paypal be used in that way? If Sam buys socks for John, and John buys drugs for Sam at Silk Road by paying Silk Road's Skype account, haven't they just been laundering paypal credit? No, because there is no way to hide the connections between Sam and John from Paypal, and by proxy the government overseers. Sam and John are both known persons to Paypal, whereas Sam and John are just long numbers to the Bitcoin blockchain. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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cloud9
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June 06, 2011, 08:39:55 PM |
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Bitcoins represent a new paradigm in online exchange. It is decentralized, anonymous system of exchange that is a true revolution in the way people trade over the internet.
You said Bitcoins is anonymous. Is that true in its standard form or is it true when someone takes the willful decision to launder his bitcoins? Bitcoin is only anonymous with great care from the user, and advance planning. The key is that it's possible to be anonymous with bitcoin, while also being fairly convient online. This is not a possible combination with any other existing payment method. Can't even paypal be used in that way? If Sam buys socks for John, and John buys drugs for Sam at Silk Road by paying Silk Road's Skype account, haven't they just been laundering paypal credit? No, because there is no way to hide the connections between Sam and John from Paypal, and by proxy the government overseers. Sam and John are both known persons to Paypal, whereas Sam and John are just long numbers to the Bitcoin blockchain. Will it be known from the paypal account details that Sam bought drugs at Silk Road? Will there be a connection between Sam, John and Silk Road from the paypal account details? And if Sam and John decided to use bitcoins, didn't they bought their bitcoins from some taxreporting company or individual? |
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kokjo
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You are WRONG!
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June 06, 2011, 08:40:53 PM |
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can you write to a congressperson, even if you are not a US citizen? will they listen?
They'll listen to a non-citizen just as well as they listen to a citizen. nice to know! maybe i will write to one, will heavily consider it. |
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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MoonShadow
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June 06, 2011, 08:42:30 PM |
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Bitcoins represent a new paradigm in online exchange. It is decentralized, anonymous system of exchange that is a true revolution in the way people trade over the internet.
You said Bitcoins is anonymous. Is that true in its standard form or is it true when someone takes the willful decision to launder his bitcoins? Bitcoin is only anonymous with great care from the user, and advance planning. The key is that it's possible to be anonymous with bitcoin, while also being fairly convient online. This is not a possible combination with any other existing payment method. Can't even paypal be used in that way? If Sam buys socks for John, and John buys drugs for Sam at Silk Road by paying Silk Road's Skype account, haven't they just been laundering paypal credit? No, because there is no way to hide the connections between Sam and John from Paypal, and by proxy the government overseers. Sam and John are both known persons to Paypal, whereas Sam and John are just long numbers to the Bitcoin blockchain. Didn't Sam or John bought their bitcoins from some taxreporting company or individual? Possibily. Sam or John could be a miner themselves, or purchaused bitcoin from someone in some thier world nation who couldn't care less about reporting rules. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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cloud9
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June 06, 2011, 08:51:42 PM |
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No, because there is no way to hide the connections between Sam and John from Paypal, and by proxy the government overseers. Sam and John are both known persons to Paypal, whereas Sam and John are just long numbers to the Bitcoin blockchain.
How is there a connection between Sam and John on paypal? If Sam paid socks - and it's proxy delivered to John how does paypal know about the connection between Sam and John? If John pays for a Skype number's credit and hand the password to Silk Road and Silk Road delivers drugs to Sam, how does paypal know about the connection between Silk Road and Sam? Isn't the problem with laundering Bitcoins, and not with Bitcoins? |
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MoonShadow
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June 06, 2011, 09:22:06 PM |
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I just sent this off to Ron Paul. It's not a treatise on the subject, but I think if we all petition Ron Paul and other like-minded (are their any?) congressional members
Um, his son, Rand; perhaps? |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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jimbobway
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June 06, 2011, 09:48:50 PM |
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Can you give us a link to Ron or Rand's email or address we can send a letter to?
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Dobrodav
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June 06, 2011, 11:11:15 PM |
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I am don`t know, will it help or not, but if you think it will, i can send to him something like that:
" Dear Senator, here at Russia, we watching closely at your attempts to preserve US power and defend interests of US citizens.
Like you know, - something big is better seen from the distance. We are at enough distance, and we have never ceased to worry about the strength and greatness of America since 1946.
We found that some of your fellow colleague, senator Charles Shumer, found hidden, but great danger, to the US citizens, famous federal reserve, and possible - even to US government itself. He found that threat big enough to start public campaign against it, showing no trust to responsible departments.
He talking about some terrible undercover site, that trades drugs. More of that, he mentioned that only currency in use, on that dirty, god damned site, is some unnamed digital currency, that have somehow less anonymity than cash, but more than any other form of e-currency.
Well its time, to make clear who we are, - we are group of drunken Russian peasants, that have access to internet by stolen notebook accident.
When we saw this for first time, we did not believe. What ? US government need to start public campaign against some drug dealers ?
Their regular departments are become impotent ?
First time when we saw something like that, was deny to shutdown opiate farms in Afghanistan. We have the same thoughts in that time, but they are quickly disappeared, when we saw, that this decision was actually helps US government to gain more influence and power in that region (smart move by the way, - was great to add you even more trust).
So, as mentioned above, we was drunk, when discover it (little less, than now), and we was somehow surprised. Someone even suggested that perhaps, finally, it is time to offer you, some, you know - HELP.
That was just reflective mind movement, because, everybody knows, that helping every human being in the world idea, - would stay for long in our genomes.
We decide not to do any judgments before few "samovar" of vodka will be drunk, and some cows will be raped ( they are true girlfriends of a drunk man), - just to, somehow, clear out our minds.
Sometime later, we figured out the true reason, concerning you colleague - Off course, that was not some stupid "drug store", that was unnamed digital currency. What is this ? We was curious. Quick investigation opens the name of that currency to us - Bitcoins.
Like Stalin said - "That free speech, will not lead USA to anything good". He was evil bastard, but not stupid, for sure.
Then there was some pause in our discussion, because we was changing our remaining well trusted and solid US dollars to that "Bitcoins", -just to experiment with them, of course.
After some experiments, we did not find any easy way to break the Bitcoin system.
Then the abyssal horror was opened before us. That bitcoins can be transfered person to person without anybody controlling the process !
Even through borders ! No any authority's behind them, no value, - just sum of trust of each individuals using them ! More of that - no central servers, witch can be easy controlled !
We found out that there was some debates - is that just assets, or currency, but your colleague was looking through that trash - what is asset, that is liquid, scalable, moving through the world faster than space shuttle, and gaining more and more trust ?
Charles Shumer is right, every patriotic US citizen must support him. We are honestly believe and hoping, that you will support his brave fight.
Other world deserve some handicap.
Bitcoins should be banned in USA.
That should be done fast.
"
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MoonShadow
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June 06, 2011, 11:31:24 PM |
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That's hilarious! Do it, please!
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"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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em3rgentOrdr
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June 07, 2011, 12:08:08 AM |
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What we need are some Bitcoin lobbyists in congress. Hopefully we can put some Bitcoins in the politicians pockets while we are at it.
Someone start the bounty! Bitcoin lobbyists is such a perverse idea. |
"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.
Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
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