So I spoke with Loretta Sanchez today about bitcoins...

[Jaime Frontero]

This is bad.  This is an image we have to shake, by any means necessary.

What means do you propose? What is your aim? Merely to "shake this image", or to prevent some individuals from using Bitcoin to perform the types of transactions which gives us this image?

If a large enough people think that violence should be used against some Bitcoin users, and doing so will "shake this image", do you support using such violence?

You know damned well what my aim is.  As long as the word "bitcoin" is associated with "drug money" and "laundering" it will be impossible to sell it to the united states populace, and therefore impossible to squeeze the powers that be into accepting it as a valid form of exchange that doesn't need to be obliterated by any means necessary.

Your anarchistic fantasy of unstoppable free trade can't last, because unless bitcoin graduates from the back-alley territory it is in, the value of the bitcoin will be annihilated when uncle sam drops the hammer on using it for illegal goods.  Bitcoins HAVE to be traded for goods and services in great numbers and in broad daylight, and this crap is hindering that.

Edit:  I propose we retrofit the DEA to break down people's doors and rough them up a bit, you know, really step on their civil liberties.  Maybe fire off a couple rounds into their Corgis for absolutely no reason.  That'll do the job, as per your specification.

Edit of the edit:  Wait.  That's what the DEA already orchestrates, in a way.  I guess we're good to go as is!

For some reason, I was compelled to google* "DEA raid corgi" and I found out this actually happens. They just "Bang" shoot your dog, based on the SUSPICION of you being involved in something illegal. How exactly is this innocent until proven guilty?

Just came to mind, lets say that you are mining bitcoins and consuming unreal amounts of electricity and "non-existent" thermal scans show a incredible amount of heat in his living room. DEA gets warrant based on "you has pot farm, supar seckret sources tells me so". DEA breaks through your front door and finds your dog, of course, because they have a warrant, they shoot it. They then find out there is not a single illegal substance anywhere to be found in your house. What happens now?

they plant an illegal substance in your home.  they'd rather be evil than proven wrong.

on the other hand, you could call your local DEA office, explain that you're running some fairly intensive computer stuf, your electric bill has quadrupled, and you'd like to invite them over.

have a lawyer present when they show up...

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[b2931938]

That is actually sound advice. Should be sticky in Mining

[Goldenmaw]

You only hear about the really calamitous raids.  The ones where they bust in, uproot some carpeting, apologize and leave don't make the news outlets, but they're pretty goddamn frequent.  Preventing this, and dealing with this potential problem really does deserve its own thread.

Actually contacting them in advance may not be the best thing to do.  Anyone with experience on this matter able to weigh in?

Being polite, non-confrontational and completely cooperative, on the other hand, is the difference between some power tripping sergeant deciding "you're all right" and pulling a bag of angel dust of out his hat.  Keep your place clean, keep all rooms and major areas of storage accessible and uncluttered, to reduce the damage caused by a team of dudes poking through every nook and cranny in your home.  Charisma has everything to do with this - if the cops generally like you as a person, they're not going to be interested in obliterating your future.

[FatherMcGruder]

For some reason, I was compelled to google* "DEA raid corgi" and I found out this actually happens. They just "Bang" shoot your dog, based on the SUSPICION of you being involved in something illegal. How exactly is this innocent until proven guilty?

Just came to mind, lets say that you are mining bitcoins and consuming unreal amounts of electricity and "non-existent" thermal scans show a incredible amount of heat in his living room. DEA gets warrant based on "you has pot farm, supar seckret sources tells me so". DEA breaks through your front door and finds your dog, of course, because they have a warrant, they shoot it. They then find out there is not a single illegal substance anywhere to be found in your house. What happens now?

Sadly, botched raids happen all the time. I think part of the problem comes from an over abundance of SWAT teams and a relative dearth of appropriate scenarios for them. And laziness. Why bother with good police work when law enforcement can just surprise suspects with overwhelming force and just troll for evidence of criminal activity?

[SlaveInDebt]

You only hear about the really calamitous raids.  The ones where they bust in, uproot some carpeting, apologize and leave don't make the news outlets, but they're pretty goddamn frequent.  Preventing this, and dealing with this potential problem really does deserve its own thread.

Actually contacting them in advance may not be the best thing to do.  Anyone with experience on this matter able to weigh in?

Being polite, non-confrontational and completely cooperative, on the other hand, is the difference between some power tripping sergeant deciding "you're all right" and pulling a bag of angel dust of out his hat.  Keep your place clean, keep all rooms and major areas of storage accessible and uncluttered, to reduce the damage caused by a team of dudes poking through every nook and cranny in your home.  Charisma has everything to do with this - if the cops generally like you as a person, they're not going to be interested in obliterating your future.

Oh man, let me get this straight your suggesting I keep my house nice and tidy so that when law enforcement comes under false assumptions they won't damage my possession's? I can plainly see your already bent over, you mind if I hide a few things in there before they ransack my house? Not to dismiss your advice entirely it's true about your attitude and demeanor. However shouldn't those in a position of power practice a little humility when they are wrong? Might help keep them in check by the people a little better if they'd even allow us to rub their face in it, even if it's just a crude remark like don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

[Goldenmaw]

Damage control and basic psychology, buddy.  If you treat cops like human beings, they're vastly more likely to treat you like a human being.  If you open the door with a fuck the pigs attitude, they're vastly much more likely to think, "well, fuck you, too".  You must understand that drug raids frequently see armed combat, and everyone on those teams is surging with adrenaline when they knock on (or kick down) your door.  Being non-confrontational and cooperative puts everyone at ease.  It may even save your Corgi, if the dog follows your lead, as dogs have been doing with their masters for thousands of years.

There will always be bad apples, of course, so your results may vary.

As for keeping shit clean - a team of men in boots, be they workmen or swatties in riot gear, are going to trample anything you let them.  They do almost as much damage as kids!

[FatherMcGruder]

Damage control and basic psychology, buddy.  If you treat cops like human beings, they're vastly more likely to treat you like a human being.  If you open the door with a fuck the pigs attitude, they're vastly much more likely to think, "well, fuck you, too".  You must understand that drug raids frequently see armed combat, and everyone on those teams is surging with adrenaline when they knock on (or kick down) your door.  Being non-confrontational and cooperative puts everyone at ease.  It may even save your Corgi, if the dog follows your lead, as dogs have been doing with their masters for thousands of years.

Okay, this sort of apologetics makes me want to rage. But, I know better.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/07/16/a-drug-raid-goes-viral?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reason%2FArticles+%28Reason+Online+-+All+Articles+%28except+Hit+%26+Run+blog%29%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

In an email message she sent me in April, before the video went viral, Montgomery said she was reading to her son in his bedroom when the cops came in. Police fired on the dog within seconds. “I’ve never felt so violated or more victimized in my life,” Montgomery wrote. “It’s absolutely the most helpless and hopeless feeling I could ever imagine. I can’t sleep right…and I am constantly paranoid. It’s a horrible feeling…to lose the safety and security I thought I was entitled to in my own home.”

...

The Columbia video wasn’t even a “no-knock” raid. The police clearly announced themselves before entering. The Supreme Court has ruled that police must knock and announce themselves before entering a home to serve a search warrant. If they want to enter without knocking, they have to show specific evidence that the suspect could be dangerous or is likely to dispose of contraband if police abide by the knock-and-announce rule. As is evident in the Columbia video, from the perspective of the people inside the home, that requirement is largely ceremonial. If you were in a back room or asleep, you would have no idea that the armed men breaking into your home were police officers. The first sound you would have heard during the Columbia raid would have been the battering ram, followed by gunfire.

Also: http://articles.cnn.com/2008-08-07/justice/mayor.warrant_1_dead-dogs-cheye-calvo-trinity-tomsic?_s=PM:CRIME

And finally: http://fuckyeahwelshcorgis.tumblr.com/

[BitterTea]

Those are just bad apples, you can't lump all cops in with them!

edit... You were too quick, was looking for this link.

[FatherMcGruder]

Those are just bad apples, you can't lump all cops in with them!

Don't you mean bacon?

[Dobrodav]

Damage control and basic psychology, buddy.  If you treat cops like human beings, they're vastly more likely to treat you like a human being.  If you open the door with a fuck the pigs attitude, they're vastly much more likely to think, "well, fuck you, too".  You must understand that drug raids frequently see armed combat, and everyone on those teams is surging with adrenaline when they knock on (or kick down) your door.  Being non-confrontational and cooperative puts everyone at ease.  It may even save your Corgi, if the dog follows your lead, as dogs have been doing with their masters for thousands of years.

There will always be bad apples, of course, so your results may vary.

As for keeping shit clean - a team of men in boots, be they workmen or swatties in riot gear, are going to trample anything you let them.  They do almost as much damage as kids!

Well, that place police officers in a row with fast food servants - don`t be harsh with them, and they will not spit in your food - cool. Low and order in rise of their hopes. Actually - i  am was always think like that. That adds great deal of honor to PO`s

[FatherMcGruder]

Well, that place police officers in a row with fast food servants...

Servants? Really? They're workers. I mean, what do you think would happen if they knew you called them servants?

[Dobrodav]

Hmm... I am suggest they will spit in my food ...
Hope they did not will know that i m said this, at least fast food workers.

[FatherMcGruder]

Hmm... I am suggest they will spit in my food ...
Hope they did not will know that i m said this, at least fast food workers.

Didn't mean to jump on you like that. English clearly isn't your first language. Fast food workers may not have the most desirable jobs, but they are still workers, not servants. "Servant" comes off as rather demeaning.

[Goldenmaw]

Okay.  Yell at the police and carry on until they resort to their usual brutality, then.  Congratulations, you just got beaten senseless and accomplished absolutely nothing.  Good work.

My post was about damage control.  I have never once implied that I approve in any way of the depraved, legitimized gang violence that goes on so often in our country.  If you guys want to fuck the popo so much, suicide bomb your local police station.  Jesus.

[Dobrodav]

Hm, How to said this. Now, in Russia  police (yes, it called police now) is public enemy number X. Not sure witch exactly X - 1 trough 9, but sure not the XX, or XXX.  People  is more afraided when saw man in police uniform, then man with gun in hands.

[Goldenmaw]

Hm, How to said this. Now, in Russia  police (yes, it called police now) is public enemy number X. Not sure witch exactly X - 1 trough 9, but sure not the XX, or XXX.  People  is more afraided when saw man in police uniform, then man with gun in hands.

Right!  Because the man with the gun in his hands, while he can shoot you, he won't necessarily get away with it.  The policeman will definitely get away with it.  Legitimized gang violence.  Same way here, too, although they aren't nearly as openly brutal, or so I've been told. 

There are still many good men and women who are officers in my country.  That doesn't excuse the rampant corruption, but they're there, and they are people, struggling to do good when there is so much pressure to do wrong, and you those of you in this thread who live in america and have forgotten this, would do well to remember it.

Anyway, I've been thinking that I haven't been communicating myself effectively.  The system of law that america groans under has gone incredibly foul, and the weight gets more and more oppressive with each passing year.  I agree that we're sliding into something really bad.  I just don't see any possible gains from individualized defiance with such a, well, this is going to sound insulting, but with such a flagrantly teenage theme to it.  It would take nothing short of a massive revolution, be that armed and violent, or (hopefully) peaceable and with the means overwhelming public demonstration and legal weight to compel change. 

There just aren't enough of us willing to throw rocks at the bee's nest yet, to make any rocks thrown likely to accomplish anything but anger and pain.