Which will be more adopted in long run: btc mobile payments or debit cards?

[chennan]

I have been thinking about this for a while. There seems to be some hope on here that in the future, that when you buy something from a merchant, that the businessman/woman will give you a QR code which you then scan and pay via mobile payment. There seems to be an underlying problem here with this hope for the future, in that, if you use bitcoins like that for everyday micro transactions, along with a larger adoption rate, blocks will be maxed out and will take forever to be able to confirm. This is not a beneficial way for you or the merchant to handle business.

However, if you supply an asset based debit card with Bitcoin that has a reliable debit system in place like visa or master card, then there will be the benefit of spending your bitcoins, along with fast micro transactions.

I still have yet to get my own Bitcoin debit card for this purpose, but am interested in what people think if they have tried it, and what they think the future of spending your bitcoins may look like in everyday transactions.

[okae]

Btc mobile payments, for sure, i really think that things are going in that way, i mean to concentrate lot of things on our mobile, like we have now but much more, maybe is not a good idea because if you loose your mobile you will loose lot of things, in last years mobile apps advanced a lot so why not will be the use of bitcoin through your mobile much more in next years than now?

Debit cards sounds like something used in the past compared with bitcoin+mobile

[Jeremycoin]

I think mobile payments would be more adopted, because it's more instant (well at least, it has to be). And about the confirmation time, I believe we would find a solution for it.

[onlinedragon]

Big company's like Apple and Google are investing big in mobile payments. The next few years they invest big to make it more smooth and easy.

And also mobile payments you have to accept with fingerprint or password I gues. so the theft situation is the same situation if your debitcard get stolen or get lost.

[Amph]

mobile payments it work also well to store a small amount, and you need anyway a mobile phone not so much the debit card anymore, especially not with bitcoin, which was designed to abort the old money system

[chennan]

Big company's like Apple and Google are investing big in mobile payments. The next few years they invest big to make it more smooth and easy.

And also mobile payments you have to accept with fingerprint or password I gues. so the theft situation is the same situation if your debitcard get stolen or get lost.

http://bitcoinist.net/apple-pay-statistics-far-promising-bitcoin-global-alternative/

True, but I think apple pay along with apple in general is going to hit a rough patch here pretty soon with trying to act like Google, along with thinking about putting out an iPhone product that doesn't have a universal head phone jack and makes customers use only Apple headphones... Speculative, but I digress.

I think for an easier mass adoption, people have to be introduced with something that is familiar with them and "dumbed down" in a way. It would be very easy for potential customers to by coins and send them to an address on a debit card without necessarily a worry about private keys and that sort of thing. Plus, people just like tangible things. Taking a card out of their physical wallet to swipe is the human subconscious thing to do now.

Sure maybe in like 10-20 years it will all be QR code scanned, but I think the problem right now in the immediate future lies in confirmation times, and having a debit card that is backed by a currency/asset like Bitcoin seems extremely beneficial IMO.

[chennan]

mobile payments it work also well to store a small amount, and you need anyway a mobile phone not so much the debit card anymore, especially not with bitcoin, which was designed to abort the old money system

Sure, I definitely know it's a revolutionary new currency that acts like digital gold. I completely understand that, and the fact that it's based on internet usage. But what if you are somewhere with bad cell phone service and need to get some gas? There just seems to be multiple possible downfalls with the mobile payment system that Bitcoin possesses right now which is why you don't see any merchants accepting Bitcoin. It's not fast like what it needs to be. I know debit/credit card companies are the face of the modern fiat system, but why not let them help us out in creating a faster payment system that uses our currency that acts like gold, but can be transferred digitally to wherever we want in the world for pennies? Seems like a win-win to me.

[aizzaku]

I would say it totally depends on the situation or what type of good your are purchasing.

Bitcoin payment is surely convenient but unlike debit card, all dont accept it. and even in future why would people take the pain of accepting bitcoins when they want is fiat only which can be done with debit card. people wont take the effort to accept bitcoin and convert it to fiat

[yoona]

Debit card hard to follow because many tight rules, mobile payment more easier. So mobile payment promising in long run i guess.

[Denker]

BTC mobile payments of course.
The main reason will be the costs!
Debit cards will always have higher fees and therefore payments via smartphone will overtake it in the long run.

[Vod]

However, if you supply an asset based debit card with Bitcoin that has a reliable debit system in place like visa or master card, then there will be the benefit of spending your bitcoins, along with fast micro transactions.

Doesn't that put a third party in the middle, add reversibility, and defeat the purpose of bitcoin?

[chennan]

Debit card hard to follow because many tight rules, mobile payment more easier. So mobile payment promising in long run i guess.

I'm not quite sure I follow... There are already asset backed debit cards that are backed by major credit/debit card companies. The real difference between the different kinds of cards you can get is whether they hold the asset until you purchase something with the card then change it over to fiat, or whether when you deposit say bitcoins in they are automatically converted to fiat and then you just have a normal debit card without a bank.

[favdesu]

debit cards for now, but there's something awesome in development by mycelium https://vimeo.com/145882339

really like the approach

[chennan]

However, if you supply an asset based debit card with Bitcoin that has a reliable debit system in place like visa or master card, then there will be the benefit of spending your bitcoins, along with fast micro transactions.

Doesn't that put a third party in the middle, add reversibility, and defeat the purpose of bitcoin?

I guess so, but in my mind, I think the true purpose of Bitcoin is to be without a bank. Of course Visa, MasterCard, and others would act as a third party in a way, but they aren't a bank, just an easier and faster payment system. I'm not saying people should go stupid with it and keep all their eggs in one basket by using a debit card as a wallet in general; but rather to store some extra coin away there for the added benefit of being able to actually use your Bitcoin for everyday life, and everyday life transactions are usually always micro transactions.

[franky1]

to all the utopian dreamers thinking bitcoin will be the back bone of a one world currency either via direct blockchain tx or deposit to debit card:

1mb bitcoin can handle an maximum 2000tx a block(average tx 500byte) * 6 an hour * 24 hours * 30 days = 8640000tx/month

the average person makes an average of 43 fiat transactions a month:
weekly food shop * 4
gas utility
water utility
electric utility
phone and internet
car fuel * 4
daily snack, coffee or lunch, clothes or gadgets * 30
receive wage once a month
(yes im being very liberal with the numbers, dont knit pick)

so at 1mb block bitcoin can handle about 200,930(8.64m/43=200k) peoples daily activity (if people could buy anything to live on, directly with bitcoin(not debit card))
so at 1mb 200k people can happily transact. at 2mb 400k, at 8mb 1.6mill, at 32mb block 6.4million people can transact on the blockchain..
so lets take new york: 8 million people, 6 million of working/adult age..
in the utopian dream that every business in just new york accepted bitcoin... then bitcoin would be fine for its residents to use pure bitcoin with blockchain tx's.
but that is only 6million out of 7 billion (5billion adults) worldwide(not even 1%).

so 32mb blocks will only satisfy a new york single currency population, if all bitcoin users only done bitcoin transactions ONCHAIN

now... people doing a once a month bitcoin blockchain tx to a debit card provider will solve only 192mill (half of america!).

so anyone thinking bitcoins blockchain will ever be a one world currency managing 5billion adults daily uses.. i am sorry to burst your bubble
so anyone thinking bitcoins blockchain will ever be a one world currency managing 5billion adults monthly conversion to debit card.. i am sorry to burst your bubble

that said
atleast you know the number of users of pure onchain daily use: 6mill
atleast you know the number of users of monthly debit card deposits use: 192mill

[chennan]

debit cards for now, but there's something awesome in development by mycelium https://vimeo.com/145882339

really like the approach

Wow, see now that's awesome! Thanks for sharing! And yeah, it would be beneficial to not have a third party system that uses lets say visa. Hopefully more development will take place on this card. Any ETA on it's release date?

[worhiper_-_]

IMO bitcoin is never going to defeat cards but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[bitlancr]

I think this will cut close together both are avalable already

It's kinda hard to say, but if I had to go for either one of them I would have to say mobile payments

[franky1]

debit cards for now, but there's something awesome in development by mycelium https://vimeo.com/145882339

really like the approach

Wow, see now that's awesome! Thanks for sharing! And yeah, it would be beneficial to not have a third party system that uses lets say visa. Hopefully more development will take place on this card. Any ETA on it's release date?

its a gimick, its not solving anything. these days everyone has a phone and a phone app can easily sign a tx 'offline' and push a signed tx to the internet..
its not solving bitcoin congestion of mass adoption.
plus also requiring multiple hubs eg 1 per town.. what financial benefit would anyone have to be a hub(full node)...

[chennan]

debit cards for now, but there's something awesome in development by mycelium https://vimeo.com/145882339

really like the approach

Wow, see now that's awesome! Thanks for sharing! And yeah, it would be beneficial to not have a third party system that uses lets say visa. Hopefully more development will take place on this card. Any ETA on it's release date?

its a gimick, its not solving anything. these days everyone has a phone and a phone app can easily sign a tx 'offline' and push a signed tx to the internet..
its not solving bitcoin congestion of mass adoption.
plus also requiring multiple hubs eg 1 per town.. what financial benefit would anyone have to be a hub(full node)...

Well I guess I get what your saying. I just like the concept of the card in general though that uses a lot of security measures when someone tries to buy something with the card. But I see in multiple threads where people want a quicker side chain for faster micro transactions, why not just stick to the original Bitcoin protocol, use Bitcoin as assets, and allow visa to work as the Lightning network? I know they charge small fees, but there are bigger problems to face when the devs change the whole structure of bitcoins block chain in general.

Do you have a suggestion on how to fix this problem? I'm just more interested in how to attract local businesses to think about accepting Bitcoin, and the fact of the tx limit is not a very good selling point to any body.