Bitcoin Forum
November 12, 2024, 01:48:21 PM *
News: Check out the artwork 1Dq created to commemorate this forum's 15th anniversary
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Lowest temperature for hard drives?  (Read 6828 times)
muqali
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 10, 2012, 08:01:04 AM
 #21

I just looked up a Deskstar datasheet, and it specifies 5C to 60C operating, -40 to 70C non-operating. WD Caviar is 0-60C operating. Looks like it would be best to not freeze your hard drive.

It sounds like if the fans stop working, that would actually be what you want to keep the system warm...
2. Materials generally lag tracking the ambient temperature, which means that the drive will be colder than its surroundings when it get warmer, so a shit load of water may condense out on the electronics/inside the drives.


I'm pretty sure some of the drives I've split open have had dessicant inside. Dunno if it'd be enough with that much delta T though. Depends on the humidity too I suppose.

donations BTC: 1CaCwo4xneTqTLEdomW76Cg5NteZyvXi1c
donations LTC: LTcasvjtLuN92ks1Pc1qtkvE9PswsXEbev
kjj
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302
Merit: 1026



View Profile
January 02, 2013, 02:18:45 PM
 #22

Modern hard drives use fluid dynamic bearings.  As long as you keep it spinning, it should be fine.  While the drive is spinning, the bearing should be producing enough heat to keep from freezing even if the environmental temperature is well below the manufacturer's spec.

That said, you should use old drives that are out of warranty for this.  Although I think you will be fine, the manufacturer would not be amused by out-of-spec operation.

Oh, and drives don't contain desiccant because they aren't sealed.  What they normally have is a HEPA filter to trap particles pulled in through the pressure-relief port.  It looks like a little tea bag.

Back in the late 90s, I had what I now believe to have been the first in-car MP3 player in Minnesota.  It was really just a computer fed into my stereo by hacking the CD changer bus, but still...  On a few of the coldest days of the year, it wouldn't boot because the hard drive wouldn't spin up, but it was just a matter of waiting a few minutes for the CPU and PSU heat to thaw out the bearings.  That drive survived through several years despite below zero winters and over 100 degree summers.

17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8
I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs.  You should too.
hardcore-fs
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
January 04, 2013, 02:46:40 AM
 #23

Modern hard drives use fluid dynamic bearings.  As long as you keep it spinning, it should be fine.  While the drive is spinning, the bearing should be producing enough heat to keep from freezing even if the environmental temperature is well below the manufacturer's spec.

That said, you should use old drives that are out of warranty for this.  Although I think you will be fine, the manufacturer would not be amused by out-of-spec operation.

Oh, and drives don't contain desiccant because they aren't sealed.  What they normally have is a HEPA filter to trap particles pulled in through the pressure-relief port.  It looks like a little tea bag.

Back in the late 90s, I had what I now believe to have been the first in-car MP3 player in Minnesota.  It was really just a computer fed into my stereo by hacking the CD changer bus, but still...  On a few of the coldest days of the year, it wouldn't boot because the hard drive wouldn't spin up, but it was just a matter of waiting a few minutes for the CPU and PSU heat to thaw out the bearings.  That drive survived through several years despite below zero winters and over 100 degree summers.


Sorry.... Totally irrelevant about the bearings.... you have obviously not understood my original posting.
The amount of structural change in the materials over a given temperature range, dictates the reliability of the read/write circuits.

OLD hard drives, strictly recorded ones/zeros onto (maybe in a manchester or other recording system) the media, so they were more reliable over extended temperature ranges, due to the massive size of the encoded magnetic domains.

NEW hard drives DO NOT do this, and the data recovery is based on the probability of the signal recovered from under the noise floor being a one or zero NOT on a hard fact (very frightening but true).
By changing the temperature you change the probability, due to material expansion/contraction, which means data recorded at a temperature outside the drives operating range may ONLY be reliably recovered at that temperature.

BTC:1PCTzvkZUFuUF7DA6aMEVjBUUp35wN5JtF
kjj
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302
Merit: 1026



View Profile
January 04, 2013, 07:14:38 AM
 #24

Modern hard drives use fluid dynamic bearings.  As long as you keep it spinning, it should be fine.  While the drive is spinning, the bearing should be producing enough heat to keep from freezing even if the environmental temperature is well below the manufacturer's spec.

That said, you should use old drives that are out of warranty for this.  Although I think you will be fine, the manufacturer would not be amused by out-of-spec operation.

Oh, and drives don't contain desiccant because they aren't sealed.  What they normally have is a HEPA filter to trap particles pulled in through the pressure-relief port.  It looks like a little tea bag.

Back in the late 90s, I had what I now believe to have been the first in-car MP3 player in Minnesota.  It was really just a computer fed into my stereo by hacking the CD changer bus, but still...  On a few of the coldest days of the year, it wouldn't boot because the hard drive wouldn't spin up, but it was just a matter of waiting a few minutes for the CPU and PSU heat to thaw out the bearings.  That drive survived through several years despite below zero winters and over 100 degree summers.


Sorry.... Totally irrelevant about the bearings.... you have obviously not understood my original posting.
The amount of structural change in the materials over a given temperature range, dictates the reliability of the read/write circuits.

OLD hard drives, strictly recorded ones/zeros onto (maybe in a manchester or other recording system) the media, so they were more reliable over extended temperature ranges, due to the massive size of the encoded magnetic domains.

NEW hard drives DO NOT do this, and the data recovery is based on the probability of the signal recovered from under the noise floor being a one or zero NOT on a hard fact (very frightening but true).
By changing the temperature you change the probability, due to material expansion/contraction, which means data recorded at a temperature outside the drives operating range may ONLY be reliably recovered at that temperature.

Heh.  Mechanical contraction and expansion are not issues here.  Drives haven't used absolute positioning for like 25 years.  The heads center themselves over the servo tracks using analog voice coils and feedback, not stepper motors.  As for the magnetic systems, the entire read circuit is built around looking for the difference between parallel and anti-parallel domains, not at absolute levels.  As long as you stay away from the Curie point, the changes in magnetic properties are tiny compared to the other forces that a hard drive has to deal with, and well within the capabilities of our modern DSP techniques and redundant encoding schemes.

If the spindle is physically capable of spinning, the drive should be fine.

17Np17BSrpnHCZ2pgtiMNnhjnsWJ2TMqq8
I routinely ignore posters with paid advertising in their sigs.  You should too.
YipYip
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500



View Profile
January 16, 2013, 09:15:01 AM
 #25

welp, I fixed this without insulation by adjusting the position of my cards so that they blew on the hard drive.  Now it's -22C out and the HDD is at 27C and the cards are chugging away in the 50's.

is now the living in happyness

OBJECT NOT FOUND
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!