Where's the money, Lebowski?

[RobRoyder]

TL;DR: half of the addies are now empty.

Treasurers
March 19, 2013, 06:23:02 PM (edited June 11, 2015)
   
 #1
The forum's bitcoins are currently held by the following people.

Person   Amount      Fee (monthly)      Next fee payment      Address
paraipan   250   0.208   2014-04-19   1PFkqgBBrSKikyyUGDerZMfzvCNPgKrR3o
Rassah   750   0   -    1HQ8WaKVRYXLBtVdMcYr5SHQ3X9BsLyxa1
OgNasty   500   0.5   2014-11-22   1Eog8UqRFLufC71rBLt2nYgfUDskgxAyVF
theymos   ~4000   0   -    1M4yNbSCwSMFLF9BaLqzoo2to1WHtZrPke, et al.

Contracts
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=33E6kJ46
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=QKC7JWNJ
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=sw7X4JK6
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XGyJFddU
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=t9h2pL2y
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jkw3U4FU
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xfXYUHU3

[OmegaStarScream]

None of them is empty , only one have less funds is the one that belongs to theymos and I'm pretty sure those funds was used to start funding the new forum software or simply he split them to different addresses in case things goes wrong for one reason or another .

[RobRoyder]

None of them is empty

Sure they are. Click on the contracts.
The post has also been updated recently, June 11 of this year.

And if splitting among multiple addys, what's the point of posting the addys where the money's not at? Lel?

[minifrij]

Can you read properly? All of those apart from theymos's address have the proper amount of Bitcoin or more.
However, 250BTC of that from paraipan is lost since AFAIK he passed away a year or two ago.

Sure they are. Click on the contracts.

What do you mean?

The post has also been updated recently, June 11 of this year.

Yeah, I believe a treasurer was removed as he/his wife tried to extort the forum to have a post removed.

[RobRoyder]

Can you read properly? All of those apart from theymos's address have the proper amount of Bitcoin or more.
However, 250BTC of that from paraipan is lost since AFAIK he passed away a year or two ago.

Sure they are. Click on the contracts.

What do you mean?

The post has also been updated recently, June 11 of this year.

Yeah, I believe a treasurer was removed as he/his wife tried to extort the forum to have a post removed.

>What do you mean
I mean click on the pastebin links. From there on, should be self-explanatory.

>Yeah, I believe
A public ledger edited with an eraser? Why not leave the original unaltered?

[Quickseller]

Regardless of if theymos wants to admit it or not, the forum's BTC most likely legally belongs to theymos.

I think it is somewhat of a moot point to ask where theymos's own money is. Unless of course the point of asking is to troll.....

[RobRoyder]

Regardless of if theymos wants to admit it or not, the forum's BTC most likely legally belongs to theymos.

I think it is somewhat of a moot point to ask where theymos's own money is. Unless of course the point of asking is to troll.....

>Regardless of if theymos wants to admit it or not
A detail quite relevant to teh taxman.

>Unless of course the point of asking is to troll
Please don't bother commenting on things you don't understand, unless, ofc, you're just trying to suck up to theymos.

[Lauda]

After your last post it seems to me like you're trying to troll. Nobody likes trolls here. Regardless, is it really important where the money is? If so, why?

[redsn0w]

Another troll, fantastic !


Maybe you are only jealous because you don't have or you will not have (ever) those btc/money.

[RobRoyder]

After your last post it seems to me like you're trying to troll. Nobody likes trolls here. Regardless, is it really important where the money is? If so, why?

>is it really important where the money is?
Is how millions of $$$ in donations to bitcointalk was spent important?

>If so, why?
Because the money was not gifted to theymos, it was donated to bitcointalk.
Because the money is vanishing, with nothing to show for it.
Because it looks like a large chunk of the money, for which theymos is responsible, seems to be missing.
Because that shit is called embezzlement.
Because either you know and are being evasive, or you do not, in which case kindly not clutter up the thread. This means you too, redsn0w.
Need more?

[theymos]

The forum money I held has largely been spent now, mostly in the forum software project. Slickage was paid $100,000 per month in all of 2014 and until May in 2015. Since June 2015, they've been paid $50,000 per month. The exchange rate varied substantially throughout this period, but the end result is that most of the BTC was spent.

The rate ($85,417/month average as of the end of 2015) might seem high to people unfamiliar with professional software development, but it's normal. The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million), but I've been constantly monitoring Slickage, and they've definitely been making solid, continual progress, so it seemed correct to continue to project. The vast majority of total forum revenue was from ads, not donations, but to the extent that donations were used: this software was in fact the main stated goal of donations.

As I've said before: I have absolutely no personal relationship to Slickage, and I receive no "kickbacks" whatsoever. I've never even met them in person. I first learned of Slickage from Warren Togami, who had previously done a lot of work for the forum and was himself recommended by gmaxwell and others. (I've also never met Warren in person.)

The current status of the software is that it's ~85% done. The core of it is entirely functional and often much better/faster than SMF, though there are still several missing features. There will be a public beta before the end of the month, I think, at which time I'll post more about what's left to be done. Also see http://epochtalk.org/ for more info.

[RobRoyder]

The forum money I held has largely been spent now, mostly in the forum software project. Slickage was paid $100,000 per month in all of 2014 and until May in 2015. Since June 2015, they've been paid $50,000 per month. The exchange rate varied substantially throughout this period, but the end result is that most of the BTC was spent.

The rate ($85,417/month average as of the end of 2015) might seem high to people unfamiliar with professional software development, but it's normal. The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million), but I've been constantly monitoring Slickage, and they've definitely been making solid, continual progress, so it seemed correct to continue to project. The vast majority of total forum revenue was from ads, not donations, but to the extent that donations were used: this software was in fact the main stated goal of donations.

As I've said before: I have absolutely no personal relationship to Slickage, and I receive no "kickbacks" whatsoever. I've never even met them in person. I first learned of Slickage from Warren Togami, who had previously done a lot of work for the forum and was himself recommended by gmaxwell and others. (I've also never met Warren in person.)

The current status of the software is that it's ~85% done. The core of it is entirely functional and often much better/faster than SMF, though there are still several missing features. There will be a public beta before the end of the month, I think, at which time I'll post more about what's left to be done. Also see http://epochtalk.org/ for more info.

Speechless.
So what you're telling me is you have sent $1,950,000, nearly two million dollars, to someone you've "never even met them in person," a dead landing page, http://slickage.com/ ? And this, the most expensive forum software ever, isn't finished yet? And you're still sending 50k/mo to this Slickage?

Is there a fancy GPG-signed contract "non-legal agreement between The Bitcoin Forum ("Forum") and Slickage [...] intended to be enforced in a non-violent, non-legal way by the community"?
Or was this a handshake deal? I take it the drop to 50k/mo is the late completion clause?
Anyhow, cool story bro, but hope you don't expect it to fly IRL.

[dogie]

The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million)

It seems a bit backwards to how I would have expected a contractor to be remunerated.

1. I give you a project brief
2. You give me a quote
3. We agree on a price
4. I pay a portion upfront
5a. You deliver it on time
5b. You deliver it late
6. I pay you the remainder on delivery.

In either scenario they get paid the same - for doing the work that was agreed. Giving someone such a lucrative incentive to do work slower not to deliver seems a recipe for disaster.

[shorena]

The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million)

It seems a bit backwards to how I would have expected a contractor to be remunerated.

1. I give you a project brief
2. You give me a quote
3. We agree on a price
4. I pay a portion upfront
5a. You deliver it on time
5b. You deliver it late
6. I pay you the remainder on delivery.

In either scenario they get paid the same - for doing the work that was agreed. Giving someone such a lucrative incentive to do work slower not to deliver seems a recipe for disaster.

If you want to see what happens if you give devs a too strick deadline look at videogame releases. Its common that projects (any really, not only software) take longer and require more money. The question is whether you want what you asked for or a set price. If you want exactly what you asked for or something as close as possible you will have to grand more time and/or money. You cant know all problems the developers will run into in advance. I am under the impression that theymos rather wants something solid than something thats done on time or done with a given amount of money. This has certainly limits, but as long as there are funds for the development I dont see an issue.

>inb4 Im brown nosing, have no idea, yadda yadda.

[botany]

The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million)

It seems a bit backwards to how I would have expected a contractor to be remunerated.

1. I give you a project brief
2. You give me a quote
3. We agree on a price
4. I pay a portion upfront
5a. You deliver it on time
5b. You deliver it late
6. I pay you the remainder on delivery.

In either scenario they get paid the same - for doing the work that was agreed. Giving someone such a lucrative incentive to do work slower not to deliver seems a recipe for disaster.

It is the classic question on how to bill - time & material or fixed price. 
In the list above, if your project brief changes even a little bit, you will have to figure out a way to incorporate it into your contract price (if you go in for a fixed price contract). I am sure the requirements have evolved as the project has progressed.

[RobRoyder]

[...]
Speechless.
So what you're telling me is you have sent $1,950,000, nearly two million dollars, to someone you've "never even met them in person," a dead landing page, http://slickage.com/ ? And this, the most expensive forum software ever, isn't finished yet? And you're still sending 50k/mo to this Slickage?
[...]

Correction:

In December and January I paid a total of about $350,000 of forum funds to hire Slickage Studios, a software development firm. [...]

So make that $2,300,000 and counting.

[vodaljepa]

Not first time people have raised concerns regarding Slickage - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524113.0

I find it rather strange someone would give $2 million dollars to a complete stranger, theymos you lying?

[RobRoyder]

[...] I am under the impression that theymos rather wants something solid than something thats done on time or done with a given amount of money. This has certainly limits, but as long as there are funds for the development I dont see an issue.

>inb4 Im brown nosing, have no idea, yadda yadda.

Thus far, theymos has spent 2.3 million dollars to reinvent develop bulletin board forum software, which is still only "about 85% done."
"About 85% done" in devspeak is "In Two Weeks" in ASIC_manufacturer_speak.
If we treat everything theymos says at face value.

Which I do not. I refuse to believe that a man in his right mind would venture to spend millions on new forum software, when developed & tested open-source shareware exists. I refuse to believe that such a man would also find an obscure, zero-web-presence company, and, without ever even meeting the principals, send it $350k and $100k monthly thereafter. I refuse to believe that such a person exists.

Finished forum software, if it ever materializes, will  just be a meaningless byproduct of making the donation coin spendable.
When you hear hooves, think horses.

[Blazed]

What else was he supposed to do with the money exactly? Theymos owns the forum and those coins and did with it what he saw fit. Bitcointalk is not a democracy... If Theymos wanted to just pocket the coins he could without any repercussion.

[RobRoyder]

>What else was he supposed to do with the money exactly?
You're confused as to what should be done with $2.3 million one has no immediate use for?
You feel that it should be immediately flushed down the toilet? Have you considered *saving* it?

>Theymos owns the forum
No, theymos does not own this forum.
Theymos has never claimed to be the owner of this forum.
Theymos runs this forum, like a CEO runs a company.
The money was not donated to theymos, it was donated to bitcointalk.
When a CEO pockets corporate funds, it's called embezzlement, which is a bad thing.