Break the WWII pigeon code for bitcoin

[P_Shep]

PG, you're not getting it. It's totally unbreakable. You can do all the analysis in the world, using all the computers in the world and come up with nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-time_pad

[mintymark]

If its a one time pad, its probably unbreakable. But the big problem with one time pads is that as a spy, if you are found with one, that pretty much proves it, so there are good reasons why a one time pad might NOT have been used.

What altertatives are there? Vigenère cipher seems an obvious possibility and would have been hard to crack if the key was long. The key would have been a quotation, carried in the head and could easily be long. Encryption can practically be done in the head by an experianced operative and fast, or with the aid of a simple nodepad if not. To crack it you should look for repeated sequences - these would be simple words encrypted on a given multiple of the key length which end up encrypted the same way. But there are not any and that may just mean the key is long.

Enigma? Dont forget that the British did not use Enigma, the Germans did, so this seems unlikely.

More historical context would help here. Exactly what was the norm for spies in 2WW Germany to use at this time? And could would please have a list of all the one time pads? How many are there, could we just brute force them? (If we had that?)

Could it be a book Cipher of sorts?

[caffeinewriter]

If its a one time pad, its probably unbreakable. But the big problem with one time pads is that as a spy, if you are found with one, that pretty much proves it, so there are good reasons why a one time pad might NOT have been used.

What altertatives are there? Vigenère cipher seems an obvious possibility and would have been hard to crack if the key was long. The key would have been a quotation, carried in the head and could easily be long. Encryption can practically be done in the head by an experianced operative and fast, or with the aid of a simple nodepad if not. To crack it you should look for repeated sequences - these would be simple words encrypted on a given multiple of the key length which end up encrypted the same way. But there are not any and that may just mean the key is long.

Enigma? Dont forget that the British did not use Enigma, the Germans did, so this seems unlikely.

More historical context would help here. Exactly what was the norm for spies in 2WW Germany to use at this time? And could would please have a list of all the one time pads? How many are there, could we just brute force them? (If we had that?)

Could it be a book Cipher of sorts?

In a way, an OTP is basically a book cipher. In other news:

Carriers of Secrets: Pigeon on Trial for Espionage

One time pads could be difficult, since they'd need to make sure the key was safely delivered as well, since there's not really an easy way to transfer large keys over long distance. Theoretically, another uncracked message could actually turn out to be a key, but it's highly unlikely that both were intercepted. If they're using shorthand as well, that makes the decryption process even more tricky, and renders cryptanalysis essentially useless.

In cryptography, the one-time pad (OTP) is a type of encryption which has been proven to be impossible to crack if used correctly.

Please note, it's not theoretically uncrackable, it's proven to be uncrackable. (If used correctly.) You'd have to find a chink in the German's process to make any decryption attempt viable.

To continue the example from above, suppose Eve intercepts Alice's ciphertext: "EQNVZ". If Eve had infinite computing power, she would instantly find that the key "XMCKL" would produce the plaintext "HELLO", but she would also find that the key "TQURI" would produce the plaintext "LATER", an equally plausible message:

As you can see, this is letter frequency, but if there's a shorthand code as well, letter frequency goes out the window. For example, trps a rhn, rt could mean troops at the rhine, retreat. However, word frequency get's significantly more difficult since it only uses some letters from the original word. It would be even more difficult should they have some completely off topic shorthand, such as gziek mat mforkan, flta could mean the exact same thing provided the receiver had knowledge on how to use it. Also, you'd have to figure out how the key was transmitted as well.

[farlack]

The worlds best could not do it I'm sure they went over all these theories. Not sure you guys are understanding the one time thing.


A coded book, with the answers to the coded message. Used 1 time, then destroyed.

Unless you have one of those 2 books, you're not going anywhere.


ASDW#$FGDXCV in the coded book can mean, Allied victory at this place, soviet retreat here.

You'll never crack that.

[caffeinewriter]

Well, regardless, we should stop this carrion. (Insert collective groans here)

[TheButterZone]

Squab!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The worlds best could not do it I'm sure they went over all these theories. Not sure you guys are understanding the one time thing.

A coded book, with the answers to the coded message. Used 1 time, then destroyed.

Unless you have one of those 2 books, you're not going anywhere.

ASDW#$FGDXCV in the coded book can mean, Allied victory at this place, soviet retreat here.

You'll never crack that.

How do we know for certain a OTP was used? If I read correctly, there were millions of messages sent via pigeons during WWII. To use a OTP, don't you have to sent a pigeon first with the key prior to sending the crypto message? If that's the case, then what happens if the other end doesn't get the key but only the message?

FYI: Did you know that some prisoners are using pigeons to get drugs onto the grounds? Who here is working on Silk Air?

~Bruno K~

[greyhawk]

No, the recipient already has his copy of the OTP way way before any pigeons are ever sent.

[caffeinewriter]

No, the recipient already has his copy of the OTP way way before any pigeons are ever sent.

Unless they had a whole library of them, it isn't technically a one-time pad.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

No, the recipient already has his copy of the OTP way way before any pigeons are ever sent.

Unless they had a whole library of them, it isn't technically a one-time pad.

If that's the case, then the numbers at the end of the message may be which pad to use to decode it.

Would somebody be kind as to explain to me (or others interested) as to why the length of the words(?) are all five letters long?

~Bruno K~

[SgtSpike]

No, the recipient already has his copy of the OTP way way before any pigeons are ever sent.

Unless they had a whole library of them, it isn't technically a one-time pad.

If that's the case, then the numbers at the end of the message may be which pad to use to decode it.

Would somebody be kind as to explain to me (or others interested) as to why the length of the words(?) are all five letters long?

~Bruno K~

My guess would be that spaces are removed in such a cipher to make it that much more difficult for an enemy to crack.  Once decoded, it is easy enough to figure out where the spaces should go.

OR, one of the letters represents a space.

They're grouped into 5's to be easier to read/decode without losing one's place.

[John (John K.)]

I just installed windows XP using the first row.


(I admit I plagiarized this =P)

[farlack]

The worlds best could not do it I'm sure they went over all these theories. Not sure you guys are understanding the one time thing.

A coded book, with the answers to the coded message. Used 1 time, then destroyed.

Unless you have one of those 2 books, you're not going anywhere.

ASDW#$FGDXCV in the coded book can mean, Allied victory at this place, soviet retreat here.

You'll never crack that.

How do we know for certain a OTP was used? If I read correctly, there were millions of messages sent via pigeons during WWII. To use a OTP, don't you have to sent a pigeon first with the key prior to sending the crypto message? If that's the case, then what happens if the other end doesn't get the key but only the message?

FYI: Did you know that some prisoners are using pigeons to get drugs onto the grounds? Who here is working on Silk Air?

~Bruno K~

AOAKN HVPKD FNFJW YIDDC
RQXSR DJHFP GOVFN MIAPX
PABUZ WYYNP CMPNW HJRZH
NLXKG MEMKK ONOIB AKEEQ
WAOTA RBQRH DJOFM TPZEH
LKXGH RGGHT JRZCQ FNKTQ
KLDTS FQIRW AOAKN 27 1525/6

Possibly, but the numbers 1525/6 could have something to do with it? Like multiply 1525*6 1525+6 1525/6 etc  then change the text around depending on the results.

But I would have to assume that its more like 1525/6 is a section in a decoder book, that one person has, and once the letter is received, they destroy both. I wouldn't know I only learned about one time pads when I read the news article when it came out a few weeks ago hah..
Apparently these notes, and books, are highly flammable so if they were over-run, just give it some heat and its up in flames.

[TheButterZone]

Nitrocellulose?

[J-Norm]

Some of these were broken despite the fact the one time pad systems cannot be "broken" persay.

The combination of re-using keys, stolen code books and using the same prefix at the start of certain daily messages(like weather) they did manage to crack several messages using primitive purpose build computers.

If you can get access to all of the stolen/derived code data then you could run it all through and see if any decodes it. Otherwise forget about cracking it, you will get quotes from the bible before getting the real data.

All of this assumed a one-time pad. This does not look like a one time pad due to the uneven character distribution. Then again with such a small sampling such unevenness can happen in truly random data.

The uneven distribution could also be related to the fact the the "random" one time pads were often generated by mashing a keyboard. People tend to bias towards the middle of a keyboard, if the message had repeating characters then this bias would show through.

[greyhawk]

Some of these were broken despite the fact the one time pad systems cannot be "broken" persay.

The combination of re-using keys, stolen code books and using the same prefix at the start of certain daily messages(like weather) they did manage to crack several messages using primitive purpose build computers.

Yeah, but to do that you need a lot more cyphertext and a reasonable estimation of what parts of the plaintext would be.

[J-Norm]

No, the recipient already has his copy of the OTP way way before any pigeons are ever sent.

Unless they had a whole library of them, it isn't technically a one-time pad.

The common form was a small book with the pages glued together at the sizes made of nitro paper. It burns completely and quickly. You take pages off the take when you used up your keys.

[J-Norm]

Yeah, but to do that you need a lot more cyphertext and a reasonable estimation of what parts of the plaintext would be.

Yes, modern computers would not really help much. The mechanical computers they made could keep up with the cryptographers guess lists. A team of very smart people pouring over information about the time/place with acccess to reams of prior code data will get just a few of these codes regardless of computer power.

I doubt this will ever be broken because even if the key can be found/derived via cribs the work involved would be too much. With a provably unbreakable code system you can only do side channel attacks or attack flaws in the implementation.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Did anybody notice that this message was sent twice? (see lower right of image)

Check out this link: http://www.ciphermysteries.com/2012/11/24/dead-ww2-cipher-pigeon-timeline

[farlack]

    AOAKN - Artillery Observer At "K" Sector, Normandy
    HVPKD - Have Panzers Know Directions
    FNFJW - Final Note [confirming] Found Jerry's Whereabouts
    DJHFP - Determined Jerry's Headquarters Front Posts
    CMPNW - Counter Measures [against] Panzers Not Working
    PABLIZ - Panzer Attack - Blitz
    KLDTS - Know [where] Local Dispatch Station
    27 / 1526 / 6 - June 27th, 1526 hours


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20749632