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[betcointm]

If the requirements are not met, then the original deposit amount is what's made available

Only if they didn't lose anything at all yet, right? I deposit 1, you make it up to 4.01, I bet and lose 0.01 leaving 4 in my balance then cancel the bonus. What's my balance? It's not my original deposit is it? You take off 3.01 leaving just 0.99.

If you're going on the chance to make 301% without actually betting anything - which is what most people will do - then I don't agree. It all depends on whether or not you start betting your deposit.

So I still don't understand it. How can I make 301% without actually betting anything? How can I not "start betting my deposit"?

It's a matter of perspective on the prospect of winning. If you're betting your own funds, the EV is lower. The deposit bonus can be zero risk, though, and in most cases is treated as such.

As I understand it, it's impossible to bet without risking my own funds. When I cancel the bonus, you subtract the whole bonus amount. So I'm not betting that bonus money, I'm betting my deposit from the very first bet.

Thoughts?

I still don't understand the current bonus system enough to give my thoughts on your proposed modification to it, sorry.

Right now you're not betting your deposit, as you can withdraw your bonus at anytime. It's still a process that is as risk-free as you want.

The bonus system is:

1. deposit X
2. 301% is added to X
3. rollover requirement is (X+(3.01*X))*388
4. if you don't meet the requirements, OR you choose to withdraw your original deposit, your original deposit is returned to you.

There's really not more to add than that.

deposit 1, you make it up to 4.01, I bet and lose 0.01 leaving 4 in my balance then cancel the bonus. What's my balance? It's not my original deposit is it? You take off 3.01 leaving just 0.99.

Ah, I see where the misunderstanding is. If you cancel your bonus without actually dipping down into your own funds. I.e., if your balance is above 1 BTC - you will always withdraw BTC. Even if you had 2.10 in your balance, you'd walk out with 1.

[dooglus]

Right now you're not betting your deposit, as you can withdraw your bonus at anytime. It's still a process that is as risk-free as you want.

The bonus system is:

1. deposit X
2. 301% is added to X
3. rollover requirement is (X+(3.01*X))*388
4. if you don't meet the requirements, OR you choose to withdraw your original deposit, your original deposit is returned to you.

There's really not more to add than that.

deposit 1, you make it up to 4.01, I bet and lose 0.01 leaving 4 in my balance then cancel the bonus. What's my balance? It's not my original deposit is it? You take off 3.01 leaving just 0.99.

Ah, I see where the misunderstanding is. If you cancel your bonus without actually dipping down into your own funds. I.e., if your balance is above 1 BTC - you will always withdraw BTC. Even if you had 2.10 in your balance, you'd walk out with 1.

I was going by this:

and so "cancel the bonus" in this case means "if my balance is greater than 4.01, set it to 1, else subtract 3.01 from it". Is that right?

Exactly.

Subtracting 3.01 from 2.10 would leave my balance negative, and so unable to withdraw anything.

Are you saying I can do the following?

1) deposit 1 BTC
2) get 3.01 BTC added to my balance, for a total of 4.01 BTC
3) bet the 3.01 BTC bonus until I either lose it or clear the bonus
4) withdraw my initial 1 BTC, which I deliberately never risked.

If so, then we're back to the bonus being slightly +EV, and risk free. Yay!

Sorry it took me so long to understand. I either I'm really slow or the explanation on your site could use some serious improvement.

[Gildarts]

"Sorry, access to our multiplayer poker room is restricted for VPN users or users who have multiple accounts. Please disable your VPN to access the poker room and contact our support if you have multiple accounts, so we can provide access to poker for you"

i don't use vpn and i don't have any other account in your site.

username : gildarts

take a look thank you !

[katerniko1]

your poker software is so unreal (guess that is same as of nitrogens)
what cards are comming out and people wins with all kind of shits 24/7 its hard to know poker like that.. and that "hash" code where can i verify it?
regards.
-Katerniko1

[Miyslovenic]

"Sorry, access to our multiplayer poker room is restricted for VPN users or users who have multiple accounts. Please disable your VPN to access the poker room and contact our support if you have multiple accounts, so we can provide access to poker for you"

i don't use vpn and i don't have any other account in your site.

username : gildarts

take a look thank you !

I have get this problem too, but it solved. I think you must contact support in that site. It will be resolve your problem

[nickaizoku]

your poker software is so unreal (guess that is same as of nitrogens)
what cards are comming out and people wins with all kind of shits 24/7 its hard to know poker like that.. and that "hash" code where can i verify it?
regards.
-Katerniko1

Ive been play their poker alot of time and doesn't find any problem with it.
Won few time on 3rd and 4th place.
But im not sure where to verify it and i dont know if it provably fair or not.

But what do you mean by "what card are coming out and people wins with all of kind?"

[forzendiablo]

he odds dont seem right to me and suppprt ALMOST never answers.

[bitjamz]

now i have another problem

no balance in poker room.

anyone have same problem?

still not fixed?

Have you asked the customer support or send a pm to OP? I think they have good support while they are online or offline.

I did but still not fixed

[panjul07]

Problem on withdrawal again? Just like as before that I cant request a withdrawal, stuck after clicking the cash out button and nothing happened. Is it because there is no online support on Christmas?

[Republikcoin.com]

Problem on withdrawal again? Just like as before that I cant request a withdrawal, stuck after clicking the cash out button and nothing happened. Is it because there is no online support on Christmas?

Now the service is offline probably because Christmas but I'm not sure for it
because I have not seen them publish the official announcement of the termination of withdrawal
can only wait for the owner online 

[dooglus]

your poker software is so unreal (guess that is same as of nitrogens)
what cards are comming out and people wins with all kind of shits 24/7 its hard to know poker like that.. and that "hash" code where can i verify it?
regards.
-Katerniko1

It sounds like you're asking for "provably fair poker".

I don't know of any site that offers it. I don't know know if it is really possible to offer such a thing that works in a practical way.

Read about mental poker to get an idea of the considerations involved.

I guess it would be possible to have the site prove that they have committed to a particular sequence of shuffles in advance using hashes. The difficulty comes in proving that the site isn't playing against its players while knowing their hole cards (the "PotRipper" attack seen on AP/UB).

Sometimes weird runs of cards happen. It's usually not proof of foul play - you need to large sample of hand before you can even draw such conclusions.

[DarkDays]

Are you saying I can do the following?

1) deposit 1 BTC
2) get 3.01 BTC added to my balance, for a total of 4.01 BTC
3) bet the 3.01 BTC bonus until I either lose it or clear the bonus
4) withdraw my initial 1 BTC, which I deliberately never risked.

If so, then we're back to the bonus being slightly +EV, and risk free. Yay!

Sorry it took me so long to understand. I either I'm really slow or the explanation on your site could use some serious improvement.

I've come to the conclusion that that is how they are implying that bonus could work.  This is corroborated by this line on the site under first deposit bonus information: "If you do not meet the requirements you will not be able to withdraw your winnings, but you will always be able to withdraw your own deposit amount."  However, this line in the T&C has me concerned: "Professional players or players considered, in our sole discretion, to be abusing the bonus system by any means may have bonuses revoked and be subject to further sanctions."

Basically, I'm concerned that they imply that you can deposit 800BTC and freeroll them but then if you try they will say "we never actually said you could do that, that's abuse we're taking your deposit".  So I'd need them to confirm that this is actually allowed.

[dooglus]

this line in the T&C has me concerned: "Professional players or players considered, in our sole discretion, to be abusing the bonus system by any means may have bonuses revoked and be subject to further sanctions."

Without that rule, and if you are 100% guaranteed that they will really let you withdraw your initial deposit, the bonus is only very slightly +EV. You're very likely to lose the bonus before you unlock it.

That line in the T&C is likely enough to make the bonus -EV. You need to consider the risk that they will refuse to let you withdraw your initial deposit. If you estimate that risk to be as big as 1 in 100 then the bonus is -EV for you and should be avoided. That T&C line effectively says "we can keep your deposit if we want to and there's nothing you can do about it".

[panjul07]

now i have another problem

no balance in poker room.

anyone have same problem?

still not fixed?

Have you asked the customer support or send a pm to OP? I think they have good support while they are online or offline.

I did but still not fixed

Now I'm having the same problem with you, and I asked the support and he (Andrew) said that it is because multiple accounts issue. I have told him anything he asked for and he said it will be fixed within the day. Once they have fixed it, they will notify by email. So I'll wait for it..

[SyGambler]

hey , I have noticed that people are speaking different languages in the poker chat , you shouldn't allow this to happen
they may expose their cards and I think non-english is not allowed in every poker chat

[betcointm]

hey , I have noticed that people are speaking different languages in the poker chat , you shouldn't allow this to happen
they may expose their cards and I think non-english is not allowed in every poker chat

We're getting on that already - thanks for pointing it out.

[betcointm]

Right now you're not betting your deposit, as you can withdraw your bonus at anytime. It's still a process that is as risk-free as you want.

The bonus system is:

1. deposit X
2. 301% is added to X
3. rollover requirement is (X+(3.01*X))*388
4. if you don't meet the requirements, OR you choose to withdraw your original deposit, your original deposit is returned to you.

There's really not more to add than that.

deposit 1, you make it up to 4.01, I bet and lose 0.01 leaving 4 in my balance then cancel the bonus. What's my balance? It's not my original deposit is it? You take off 3.01 leaving just 0.99.

Ah, I see where the misunderstanding is. If you cancel your bonus without actually dipping down into your own funds. I.e., if your balance is above 1 BTC - you will always withdraw BTC. Even if you had 2.10 in your balance, you'd walk out with 1.

I was going by this:

and so "cancel the bonus" in this case means "if my balance is greater than 4.01, set it to 1, else subtract 3.01 from it". Is that right?

Exactly.

Subtracting 3.01 from 2.10 would leave my balance negative, and so unable to withdraw anything.

Are you saying I can do the following?

1) deposit 1 BTC
2) get 3.01 BTC added to my balance, for a total of 4.01 BTC
3) bet the 3.01 BTC bonus until I either lose it or clear the bonus
4) withdraw my initial 1 BTC, which I deliberately never risked.

If so, then we're back to the bonus being slightly +EV, and risk free. Yay!

Sorry it took me so long to understand. I either I'm really slow or the explanation on your site could use some serious improvement.

It's very different from other casinos - which (for the most part) force you to bet your "buy-in" (i.e., your deposit) before being able to bet the bonus funds. We're working on a few more bonus options after our conversation that are more 'traditional' but still improved.

Thanks for the discussion, it was fun and gave us some great insight.

[dooglus]

Thanks for the discussion, it was fun and gave us some great insight.

Yeah, I'm glad I finally understood it!

What about this though:

  "Professional players or players considered, in our sole discretion, to be abusing the bonus system
    by any means may have bonuses revoked and be subject to further sanctions"

Whether the player is "professional" or not (whatever that means) makes no difference to their chance of profiting from your bonus. This rule seems unfair and effectively allows you to never have to actually pay out the bonus at all ("in your sole discretion").

The condition would certainly need removing or at least clarifying before I would ever agree to submit to it.

[betcointm]

Thanks for the discussion, it was fun and gave us some great insight.

Yeah, I'm glad I finally understood it!

What about this though:

  "Professional players or players considered, in our sole discretion, to be abusing the bonus system
    by any means may have bonuses revoked and be subject to further sanctions"

Whether the player is "professional" or not (whatever that means) makes no difference to their chance of profiting from your bonus. This rule seems unfair and effectively allows you to never have to actually pay out the bonus at all ("in your sole discretion").

The condition would certainly need removing or at least clarifying before I would ever agree to submit to it.

I can't remember which casino does this off the top of my head, but this is a pretty common addition to the terms - albeit ours is admittedly a bit under-defined.

For example - user gets a 'big win' and then bets on lower odds to clear his bonus. That user is thereby disqualified. Our system just adjusts the stake amount put toward the rollover based on the odds, so we don't have to be quite that heavy handed, but the fact remains that there are entire portals dedicated to 'beating' bonuses. If someone is using these methods, we put it before a security review team and everyone looks at the findings. Usually it's pretty obvious.

[dooglus]

I can't remember which casino does this off the top of my head, but this is a pretty common addition to the terms - albeit ours is admittedly a bit under-defined.

For example - user gets a 'big win' and then bets on lower odds to clear his bonus. That user is thereby disqualified. Our system just adjusts the stake amount put toward the rollover based on the odds, so we don't have to be quite that heavy handed, but the fact remains that there are entire portals dedicated to 'beating' bonuses. If someone is using these methods, we put it before a security review team and everyone looks at the findings. Usually it's pretty obvious.

You have a 388x wagering requirement. There's no way of "beating" that without getting very lucky.

If someone bets at 95% chance of winning to get through the WR quicker, I don't see how that is in any way "abusive". And if you do, you need to say up front that bets at 95% chance or higher aren't allowed when clearing the bonus. Otherwise you're the ones being abusive by being unclear about your rules.

Also, according to my supervisor, there are no such things as portals.