BFL are expecting 100,000 chips...

[crazyates]

Indeed. BFL is already under pressure to lower prices.

Uhh what pressure is that? bASIC is cheaper and faster, sure, but doesn't come with a PSU, and more than likely uses more power. Avalon is the same price and about the same speed, and while Avalon does not need a host PC, it still uses more power. Reclaimer's 4U rack mount option was 80GH/s, while BFL's is 1.5TH/s. I think they're decently competitive.

[creativex]

A power supply? Come on miners tend to have baskets of these...this miner certainly does. I've seen multiple posts already by people claiming to be BFL customers asking what BFL will do to match BTCFPGA prices/performance.

[crazyates]

A power supply? Come on miners tend to have baskets of these...this miner certainly does. I've seen multiple posts already by people claiming to be BFL customers asking what BFL will do to match BTCFPGA prices/performance.

Umm any PSUs I have lying around are all old and/or inefficient. I'm glad you keep hundreds of dollars worth of PSUs to be able to power all those bASICs, but some of us don't. And yes, that does present an issue.

My setup I've prepared doesn't include a PC or it's PSU to power 10 or even 1 bASICs. Having to either A) use a really old crappy PSU or B) buy a PSU just for powering one bASIC is just ridiculous. Now if I were gonna buy half a dozen bASICs, then it might be worth it to buy one, but still! That's a $200 "hidden" expense that I just don't want to have to deal with.

[creativex]

How have you determined the power supply costs $200? I have never paid that for a PSU, and that includes the behemoth powering the computer I'm typing this message on(PCP&C 850). If I had paid $200 for a PSU I'd expect to power no less than 5 bASICs with it AND the computer feeding them making the cost for PSUs $40/bASIC...actually less if you're also powering a computer.

BFL products would've been fairly valued IMO if they'd released them in October when they "scheduled shipments". Their customers would've had a ridiculously brief ROI and be profitable already. At this point I believe they're horribly overpriced for a launch against stiff competition in January of 2013.

[MrTeal]

A power supply? Come on miners tend to have baskets of these...this miner certainly does. I've seen multiple posts already by people claiming to be BFL customers asking what BFL will do to match BTCFPGA prices/performance.

Umm any PSUs I have lying around are all old and/or inefficient. I'm glad you keep hundreds of dollars worth of PSUs to be able to power all those bASICs, but some of us don't. And yes, that does present an issue.

My setup I've prepared doesn't include a PC or it's PSU to power 10 or even 1 bASICs. Having to either A) use a really old crappy PSU or B) buy a PSU just for powering one bASIC is just ridiculous. Now if I were gonna buy half a dozen bASICs, then it might be worth it to buy one, but still! That's a $200 "hidden" expense that I just don't want to have to deal with.

If you're only planning on using one, why on Earth would you buy a $200 PSU? You can buy an 80+ Gold PSU off Newegg for about $50.

[crazyates]

A power supply? Come on miners tend to have baskets of these...this miner certainly does. I've seen multiple posts already by people claiming to be BFL customers asking what BFL will do to match BTCFPGA prices/performance.

Umm any PSUs I have lying around are all old and/or inefficient. I'm glad you keep hundreds of dollars worth of PSUs to be able to power all those bASICs, but some of us don't. And yes, that does present an issue.

My setup I've prepared doesn't include a PC or it's PSU to power 10 or even 1 bASICs. Having to either A) use a really old crappy PSU or B) buy a PSU just for powering one bASIC is just ridiculous. Now if I were gonna buy half a dozen bASICs, then it might be worth it to buy one, but still! That's a $200 "hidden" expense that I just don't want to have to deal with.

If you're only planning on using one, why on Earth would you buy a $200 PSU? You can buy an 80+ Gold PSU off Newegg for about $50.

No I would not buy a $200 PSU for one unit. I'd find it quote annoying to have to spend $50 for one unit. In my post, I mentioned a $200 PSU for 6 or so units, not 1.

And yes, it is quite easy to spend $200 on a PSU, esp for a 1kW, 80Plus Gold unit from a good brand. The one Tom has for sale on his site is $270, but that's 80Plus Platinum, which means you're just about guaranteed 90+% efficiency at all levels.

[creativex]

He also said it would power 10 units. That's $27/bASIC which is very reasonable, so again BFL looks overpriced. You're barking up the wrong tree here. A monster PSU is not required to power a bASIC according to it's developer, a relatively inexpensive unit will do nicely and likely allow for expansion as well.

[crazyates]

I'm just saying it's annoying, and probably not something a lot of people are taking into account. I'm not saying it's a game changer, but it's still there.

[creativex]

I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.

I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.

[cunicula]

There are only a couple smart ways of managing BFL.

Scam A

1) Sell to consumers.
2) After 1 is finished sell more to yourself.

Scam B

1) Sell to consumers.
2) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
3) Lower prices, sell to more consumers.
...
n) After (1)-(n-1) are finished, sell more to yourself.

It can only end one way. Scam B is just a longer, long con.

That's why competition is so important. It forces BFL to show their hand eventually.

Competition is not good, here. For the current front runner, it increases the attractiveness of scam A relative to scam B.

[Unacceptable]

I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.

I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.

I think creativex needs his/her horomone levels checked.He/she is VERY prone to argueing,like most estrogen laden "folks".

I know what you were referring to crazyates,but they'll just run you over with the same ole crap,just give up......

I know BFL's unit will be able to run out of the box when I get it.

While bASIC's folks will be diggin thru ole P.O.S. PSU's & burnin up thier units & demanding a refund when it happens & Tom will say "you should've bought the PSU I offer,sorry,no refund"  

I've tried those $50 PSU's,guess what.......I lost more than that replacing mobo's,vid cards & CPU's.I will GLADLY spend $125-200 for a decent PSU  

[creativex]

<looks around>

...here I thought this was a discussion board. Silly me. BTW, bite me.

If you don't mind paying $230 more for 12Gh/s less then be my guest...madam.

[crazyates]

I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.

I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.

I think creativex needs his/her horomone levels checked.He/she is VERY prone to argueing,like most estrogen laden "folks".

I know what you were referring to crazyates,but they'll just run you over with the same ole crap,just give up......

I know BFL's unit will be able to run out of the box when I get it.

While bASIC's folks will be diggin thru ole P.O.S. PSU's & burnin up thier units & demanding a refund when it happens & Tom will say "you should've bought the PSU I offer,sorry,no refund"  

I've tried those $50 PSU's,guess what.......I lost more than that replacing mobo's,vid cards & CPU's.I will GLADLY spend $125-200 for a decent PSU  

Haha I realized a simple little fact that changed everything towards the end of out little spat about the PSUs: CreativeX is JUST like me, but on the opposite side. He REFUSES to let anyone else have the last word.

Now I do the same thing. I'll find anything to argue about, just to push people and get them going. I like seeing how firmly people believe in something.

He might do it for different reasons, but he's the same way: he CANNOT give in, no matter how convincing an argument, or how wrong he is.

[creativex]

I dunno 'bout that. You haven't given me anything to cause me to question my beliefs sir. I never considered it an argument, merely a discussion.

Oh and THIS IS TEH LAST WORD!

Cheers.

[Unacceptable]

<looks around>

...here I thought this was a discussion board. Silly me. BTW, bite me.

If you don't mind paying $230 more for 12Gh/s less then be my guest...madam.

Ewww,I struck a nerve    It is a discussion board & I'm discussing .....  

No,I don't mind paying more for a better,more complete product out of the box,Thanks for asking    

Maybe less hash's,but I'm sure BFL will do something about that  

& no I got the last WORD  till you post again 

[crazyates]

I dunno 'bout that. You haven't given me anything to cause me to question my beliefs sir. I never considered it an argument, merely a discussion.

Oh and THIS IS TEH LAST WORD!

Cheers.

I don't really mean argue in an angry sense. I suppose discussion would be just as descriptive.

I'm glad you're confident in your beliefs that the bASIC is a better product. That means you don't have any BFL orders ahead of me, so I get mine sooner!   

No,I don't mind paying more for a better,more complete product out of the box,Thanks for asking   

Maybe less hash's,but I'm sure BFL will do something about that 

You do bring up a good point, but I hope people like CreativeX are happy with their bASICs, I really do. In the mean time, I plan on enjoying my Singles with their bundled PSUs, nice aesthetic cases, and almost half the power usage. And judging by their superior trade-up program concerning the FPGAs, I expect future upgrades to be much more cost-effective sticking with BFL the whole route. [/fanboy]

Oh and THIS IS TEH LAST WORD!

Cheers.

I'm sure you'll find something to comment about. 

[Unacceptable]

Speaking of FPGA's..has Tom allowed a tradein on his 

BFL did for me,I have 60 gh of hashing goodness coming from tradeing my Single in,+ $699.But they actually took my old device back,WOW 

& they're going to do the same thing with the gen 1 ASIC devices when the gen 2's come out,just WOW 

[creativex]

No idea. I've never owned an FPGA. Going right from GPU to ASIC.

I hope you guys are happy with your BFL products, whenever you get them.

[bcpokey]

I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.

I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.

I think creativex needs his/her horomone levels checked.He/she is VERY prone to argueing,like most estrogen laden "folks".

I know what you were referring to crazyates,but they'll just run you over with the same ole crap,just give up......

I know BFL's unit will be able to run out of the box when I get it.

While bASIC's folks will be diggin thru ole P.O.S. PSU's & burnin up thier units & demanding a refund when it happens & Tom will say "you should've bought the PSU I offer,sorry,no refund"  

I've tried those $50 PSU's,guess what.......I lost more than that replacing mobo's,vid cards & CPU's.I will GLADLY spend $125-200 for a decent PSU  

This is a bit off-topic, but I'm a hardware geek so I enjoy discussing. If you burnt a mobo/GPU/CPU on a $50 PSU, you didn't do your homework on the PSU.

Depending on your power needs, the following < $50 PSUs are more than quality enough to deliver what they promise on their label (not for 10 bAsics, but easily 1+):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182199
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033 (my slightly biased favorite < $50 PSU)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371029
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151090 (kinda pricey but still < $50 and it's qual-i-ty)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182202 (dont ask me why you'd get 430W for the same price as 530W, I don't set prices, but they're both < $50)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151086 (another sweet SS, little redundant but technically a diff unit)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371003 (not a fan of this one, but it does what it says for very little $$$)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151077 (ok last one I promise)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371023 (last one here too)

etc.

There's tons more but you can already see I'm getting slightly redundant, and I'm getting bored. All of those units are < $50 (some < $30), will power 2 or more bAsic devices, have quality builds that you can trust your precious components to, and I think at least half of them are even 80+ or better.

If you don't like computers and fancy gadgetry, that's fine, but let us discuss things honestly shall we?

As for hassle, I certainly agree that it will be stranger and uglier to run asics this way, but it might save you on outlet space. I shrug as we don't really know what anyone will provide in the end.

[MrTeal]

I don't find it annoying in the least. I find it to be a savvy and geek friendly decision by Tom. I supply the PSU from the company I trust with the capabilities I believe I will require and BFL can keep their multiple questionable PSUs that I have zero input into. Meanwhile each time I plug in additional devices to said PSU I lower my cost basis for the whole setup compared to the competition.

I like Avalon's choice of self contained units even less btw as that means each one will have redundant power consumption components and their associated expenses. Convenient yes, but not efficient.

I think creativex needs his/her horomone levels checked.He/she is VERY prone to argueing,like most estrogen laden "folks".

I know what you were referring to crazyates,but they'll just run you over with the same ole crap,just give up......

I know BFL's unit will be able to run out of the box when I get it.

While bASIC's folks will be diggin thru ole P.O.S. PSU's & burnin up thier units & demanding a refund when it happens & Tom will say "you should've bought the PSU I offer,sorry,no refund"  

I've tried those $50 PSU's,guess what.......I lost more than that replacing mobo's,vid cards & CPU's.I will GLADLY spend $125-200 for a decent PSU  

This is a bit off-topic, but I'm a hardware geek so I enjoy discussing. If you burnt a mobo/GPU/CPU on a $50 PSU, you didn't do your homework on the PSU.

Depending on your power needs, the following < $50 PSUs are more than quality enough to deliver what they promise on their label (not for 10 bAsics, but easily 1+):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182199
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033 (my slightly biased favorite < $50 PSU)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371029
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151090 (kinda pricey but still < $50 and it's qual-i-ty)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182202 (dont ask me why you'd get 430W for the same price as 530W, I don't set prices, but they're both < $50)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151086 (another sweet SS, little redundant but technically a diff unit)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371003 (not a fan of this one, but it does what it says for very little $$$)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151077 (ok last one I promise)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371023 (last one here too)

etc.

There's tons more but you can already see I'm getting slightly redundant, and I'm getting bored. All of those units are < $50 (some < $30), will power 2 or more bAsic devices, have quality builds that you can trust your precious components to, and I think at least half of them are even 80+ or better.

If you don't like computers and fancy gadgetry, that's fine, but let us discuss things honestly shall we?

As for hassle, I certainly agree that it will be stranger and uglier to run asics this way, but it might save you on outlet space. I shrug as we don't really know what anyone will provide in the end.

If you expand your price range a little (or wait for a sale) Newegg also has a nice 300W 80+ gold PSU for $55