Rassah (OP)
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December 03, 2012, 03:36:59 PM |
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Just looking for some ideas here:
HYPOTHETICALLY How would one go about starting a business that you know may be illegal, and will eventually run afoul of the SEC, without running into legal trouble? Start it using your reputation, build it up to be viable, then give it to an anonymous entity when you start to feel the heat? Start it in an anonymous way and get someone well known to vouch for you?
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justusranvier
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December 03, 2012, 04:36:16 PM |
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Start it using your reputation, build it up to be viable, then give it to an anonymous entity when you start to feel the heat? Start it in an anonymous way and get someone well known to vouch for you? The best way is to build a business model in which minimal or no trust is required and stay anonymous the entire time. |
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koin
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December 03, 2012, 06:58:26 PM
Last edit: December 03, 2012, 10:23:36 PM by koin |
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HYPOTHETICALLY How would one go about starting a business that you know may be illegal, and will eventually run afoul of the SEC, without running into legal trouble?
build it so that it is not very visible and easily ignored (i.e., not in a way that it would require a response from enforcement). build it so that it does not exist to enrich the founder / central operators but instead any wealth earned is shared among all participants proportionate to the effort (e.g., like a coop), build it only if it benefits mankind and as such clamping down on it would be politically untenable in the short term and changing the law to accommodate it in the long term becomes a more attractive alternative. |
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yogi
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Hamster ate my bitcoin
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December 03, 2012, 07:13:37 PM |
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Base it in a country out of the reach of the SEC.
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Rassah (OP)
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December 03, 2012, 08:41:51 PM |
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Thanks guys. Great help!
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cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
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December 03, 2012, 09:14:28 PM |
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I was thinking of an underground business in The Shire.  |
Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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MPOE-PR
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December 03, 2012, 10:32:53 PM |
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Just looking for some ideas here:
HYPOTHETICALLY How would one go about starting a business that you know may be illegal, and will eventually run afoul of the SEC, without running into legal trouble? Start it using your reputation, build it up to be viable, then give it to an anonymous entity when you start to feel the heat? Start it in an anonymous way and get someone well known to vouch for you?
The problem with the notion of illegal business is that it's nonsense. The business name for an illegal venture is criminal enterprise. |
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Stephen Gornick
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December 03, 2012, 10:38:59 PM |
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The problem with the notion of illegal business is that it's nonsense. The business name for an illegal venture is criminal enterprise.
Exactly. A criminal enterprise. Here's one such example: Gandhi reached down and picked up a small lump of natural salt out of the mud--and British law had been defied.
- http://www.history.com/topics/salt-march |
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Rassah (OP)
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December 03, 2012, 10:42:54 PM |
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The problem with the notion of illegal business is that it's nonsense. The business name for an illegal venture is criminal enterprise.
OK, fine, how would one hypothetically start, or more specifically bootstrap, a venture that would be variously called either a business in some countries, or an illegal venture in others? Kinda like how Silk Road is only illegal where drugs are illegal. The issue is that some countries regulate some businesses, others don't, and the Internet, along with Bitcoin, sorta doesn't care about jurisdictions. |
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the_thing
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Proof-of-Stake Blockchain Network
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December 03, 2012, 10:47:05 PM |
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I've been asking myself the same question. Speaking of which, if you guys want to invest some money and you don't mind technically breaking the law, you know where to find me.
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danieldaniel
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December 03, 2012, 11:53:01 PM |
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This forum is really starting to depress me.
Also, "hypothetically" my ass.
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MoonShadow
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December 04, 2012, 12:01:06 AM |
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Base it in a country out of the reach of the SEC.
As Intrade just found out, there is no such thing. |
"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."
- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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Rassah (OP)
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December 04, 2012, 02:39:34 AM |
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Base it in a country out of the reach of the SEC.
As Intrade just found out, there is no such thing. +1  I guess except Onionland |
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crazyates
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December 04, 2012, 03:18:19 AM |
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Also, "hypothetically" my ass.
Lol srsly. Side note: I need help figuring out how to hypothetically scam someone. Anyone know how to do it? Seems all the successful one aren't around anymore, so I can't ask them.  |
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Rassah (OP)
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December 04, 2012, 05:11:04 AM |
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Also, "hypothetically" my ass.
Lol srsly. Side note: I need help figuring out how to hypothetically scam someone. Anyone know how to do it? Seems all the successful one aren't around anymore, so I can't ask them. FYI, If I was thinking of setting up some business that may or may not be legal, it would not be illegal due to being a scam, it would be illegal due to not following one specific country's regulations on investments and securities. Hypothetically. |
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crazyates
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December 04, 2012, 05:38:24 AM |
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Also, "hypothetically" my ass.
Lol srsly. Side note: I need help figuring out how to hypothetically scam someone. Anyone know how to do it? Seems all the successful one aren't around anymore, so I can't ask them. FYI, If I was thinking of setting up some business that may or may not be legal, it would not be illegal due to being a scam, it would be illegal due to not following one specific country's regulations on investments and securities. Hypothetically. You're getting defensive because I indirectly (and hypothetically) called you a scammer. |
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Rassah (OP)
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December 04, 2012, 06:08:51 AM |
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You're getting defensive because I indirectly (and hypothetically) called you a scammer.
I'm not getting defensive, because I am not planning on any such businesses. It was all just hypothetical, so I hypothetically got defensive about your hypothetical accusation. It's all good though |
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justusranvier
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December 04, 2012, 06:42:14 AM |
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There's no reason that an underground business needs to be a scam. Hypothetically speaking one could start a business which had the effect of lowering its customers' tax liabilities in a way that was lawful (or at least in which any unlawful effect was plausibly deniable). A business like that would do well to be circumspect in its structure and operation.
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MPOE-PR
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December 04, 2012, 09:20:21 AM |
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OK, fine, how would one hypothetically start, or more specifically bootstrap, a venture that would be variously called either a business in some countries, or an illegal venture in others? Kinda like how Silk Road is only illegal where drugs are illegal. The issue is that some countries regulate some businesses, others don't, and the Internet, along with Bitcoin, sorta doesn't care about jurisdictions.
Well, that's an entirely different story! Take Satoshi Dice: it meets your criteria (or gambling in general, or for that matter selling drinks, or pork steaks). Take Bitcoin itself: it meets your criteria. Take a free press: it meets your criteria. Pretty much everything in the world is in that situation, of being legal here and illegal there. In general the age old solution seems to be, move to a jurisdiction that respects your business and stay there. |
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Rassah (OP)
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December 04, 2012, 03:37:28 PM |
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In general the age old solution seems to be, move to a jurisdiction that respects your business and stay there.
Well, that was the most obvious and the least practical solution I was already aware of. I was looking for more like https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128928.msg1375524#msg1375524 , and big props to him for those suggestions. |
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