NEM partners with major bank, consortium of 5000 businesses, and cloud service

[jabo38]

The NEM core developers and marketing team have been working very hard silently in the background.  Today I would like to announce official deals that have been signed. 

https://forum.nem.io/t/major-announcement/1670

[tokeweed]

Oh wow.  That's must be a nice surprise...  Congrats.

[Xeelee]

I have problems with your link. Can you copy the text also here? Gracias.

[jabo38]

I have problems with your link. Can you copy the text also here? Gracias.

Are you in China, would you like a Chinese version?  I think the Chinese press release will be out tomorrow as it is night there.

Here is part of the content

Infoteria connects over 5,000 Japanese businesses providing tech solutions for them.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2015/12/prweb13122409.htm
http://www.coindesk.com/press-releases/infoteria-private-blockchain-startu/


Major bank in Japan has announced it too will be partnering to build on NEM and Mijin.
Japanese: http://www.atmarkit.co.jp/ait/articles/1512/16/news121.html
English: http://www.coindesk.com/japan-bank-sbi-sumishin-blockchain-proof-of-concept/
German: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/startup-dragonfly-fintech-revolutioniert-traditionelle-banking-losungen-562618911.html


Additionally, Tech Bureau and Sakura Internet have announced a partnership to provide Mijin Couldchains. http://bitcoinist.net/mijin-offering-blockchains-world-free/

[jabo38]

Oh wow.  That's must be a nice surprise...  Congrats.

It has only been possible with the help of a lot of people, but especially there has been a lot of work by a team of hard working devs and Makoto has been great leading the marketing for NEM in Japan.

...goes off doing the funky chicken dance...

you have been watching us for a long time and posted a lot.  I did a little dance too    There will probably be more to celebrate, this news is just hitting the web and starting to get picked up by news outlets. 

[Snail2]

Good to hear such good news. As I see NEM is alive and well, in a good distance from the shit-throwng contests over here .

[KhalDrago]

but they arent going to use or buy nemcoin.

[tokeweed]

Jabo,

Please keep us updated on the technical side of the integration.  Thanks.

[TPTB_need_war]

jabo38,

Why did you make a duplicate thread in this forum? That is frowned upon and can be reported to the moderator.

You are obviously an investor and I can't help you if you are determined to lose your money chasing failed concepts. But I can offer my opinion for other speculators to consider.

Private block chains are a big yawn, because they break the trustless property of block chains (if you don't understand that, then you shouldn't be investing in anything until you finish a crypto 101 course):

The real world doesn't work that way. Business collaborate one day and compete the next (or even the very same day). Even when collaborating they don't want to share all information, and certainly not with every member of a group. To control access to information once access to the blockchain has been granted at all, privacy features are needed.

...

There are multiple choices for what level of privacy and sharability a permissioned blockchain may have in an actual company. Not in technology terms, but in business process rationale. Certain blockchains may not be accessible by a competing/cooperating company at all, just like you are not giving away the direct access to your database/CRM.

The time will show the corporate blockchain use cases, but I do see your point though. I believe I have to refine what I've been saying. Permissioned blockchains will need the privacy features to define the level of data access for the participants. However, this doesn't have much to do with the zero-trust privacy. This may have more to do with centralized privacy and centrally assigned roles.

Honestly, I haven't given much thought to the potential architecture of such a solution. It may well not be existing, or it might have a semi-centralized form (masternodes, anyone?). However, intuitively I'd say that ringsig is a clumsy option in this case.

There's a brighter side to my original post if you wish: focus on the bigger commercializable issues.

Smooth's post (included what is not quoted above) was astute and resonated with my point that private block chains are like closed source. The end-to-end principle applies again in spades. We all want to leverage the same infrastructure (e.g. TCP/IP) and independently run a myriad of applications on the ends, which is enabled because the intermediary infrastructure is agnostic to our applications. I mentioned this concept in my recent white paper on DDoS and footnote [8] in that paper. In short, there are virtually unlimited (much more than "multiple choices") degrees-of-freedom when the base infrastructure is agnostic to the use built on top of it.

This is why I believe privacy that can be done by the end applications will trump permissioned block chains. Sorry to James Dimon, IBM, and Blythe Masters. I will relish the day that James Dimon realizes that his money is a depreciating asset in our Knowledge Age.

However the network layers of the internet are not responsible for maintaining a global unified consistency, but a block chain does. Thus the network layers of the internet have no problem trading off consistency and access of the CAP theorm, in exchange for not losing functionality (that is promised by the network transport layer) during partitioning. Whereas, during partitioning a block chain loses the promised functionality of preventing double-spends globally.

But in reality the internet doesn't function well when partitioned. This why for example popular services (e.g. Google, Facebook) have server nodes all over the globe (which is very evident to me when our trunk line from Philippines is down yet I can still access Facebook and Google and the local inquirer.net but not most other sites). I think it is likely the world will build the same redundancy for block chains. For example one of the designs I've toyed with is that using efficient hash tables we can communicate between partitions the double-spend conflicts without needing to transfer the entire block chain between partitions.

How to not make an altcoin for the masses:

How do I install Java?
Check your java version HERE. If you are using Java Version 8, update 25 or above, you are ready to install the NEM client.

How do I open Port 7890?

 

fuhgeddaboudit.

Not to be rascist but factual. I think you will soon learn why Japanese are not leaders in software evolution.

[kelsey]

Private block chains are a big yawn, because they break the trustless property of block chains (if you don't understand that, then you shouldn't be investing in anything until you finish a crypto 101 course):

most core crypto concepts are lost on this alt crowd.


gotta love when crypto goes from being an alternative to the greedy bankers of the world, too working for them 

[vaporware asset wizard]

Private block chains are a big yawn, because they break the trustless property of block chains (if you don't understand that, then you shouldn't be investing in anything until you finish a crypto 101 course):

most core crypto concepts are lost on this alt crowd.


gotta love when crypto goes from being an alternative to the greedy bankers of the world, too working for them 

study evolution and learn some history. how do things change? life didn't evolve from amoeba to humans in one go!

having japanese banks assimilate the 'idea' of a shared ledger (even if permissioned) is a stepping stone to decentralised finance. once they start using blockchains they won't go back, and when they fail the 'concept' of blockchains is already established and moving to open shared ledgers is easier.

do you expect banks to accept bitcoin straight off the bat?
do you expect banks to roll-over and die?

bollocks ... they'll evolve

[jabo38]

jabo38,

Why did you make a duplicate thread in this forum? That is frowned upon and can be reported to the moderator.

hi anon,

That post was started by somebody else who isn't a part of the NEM marketing team.  They are also a hero and have a high trust rating, so I would like to think they weren't trying to break any BTT rules.  

Jabo,

Please keep us updated on the technical side of the integration.  Thanks.

Here are some of the APIs

wallet APIs http://nem.io/ncc/index.html
server APIs http://bob.nem.ninja/docs/

And here is the white paper; maybe the best white paper for a blockchain.
http://blog.nem.io/nem-technical-report/

[jabo38]

I have problems with your link. Can you copy the text also here? Gracias.

Here is one of the first Chinese articles http://www.8btc.com/sbi-sumishin-blockchain

That is a major Chinese website that independently reported so that should be readable.

[TPTB_need_war]

Not to be rascist but factual. I think you will soon learn why Japanese are not leaders in software evolution.

An exception might be the Nintendo and Sony Playstation which were the forerunner of the Xbox. That was more an outshoot of Japanese anime (cartoon) culture than software innovation. The programmer Mike Fulton who worked for me back in the 1980s (on WordUp, FONTZ! on the Atari ST) ended up being the head of development relations in the USA for the Playstation. Mike was very diligent and a reasonably smart guy, but I could run rings around him mentally (and athletically but I am now no where near where I was physically then, neither is he lol).

Point of the link above is the Japanese are a corporate culture and do not typically understand hacker culture, concepts which are anti-authoritarian, nor viral growth strategies.

The Playstation succeeded in no small part due to the work of USA developer participation such as that of Mike Fulton on developer relations with USA software developers.

Private block chains are a big yawn, because they break the trustless property of block chains (if you don't understand that, then you shouldn't be investing in anything until you finish a crypto 101 course):

most core crypto concepts are lost on this alt crowd.

gotta love when crypto goes from being an alternative to the greedy bankers of the world, too working for them  

I have no problem if the banks use decentralized block chains, but I do have a very big problem with a world in which instead of one internet, we have many private corporate intranets which can't freely interopt with each other.

The entire reason that corporations must adopt open source and why the world must adopt one internet, is because closed source does not scale. And it causes all sorts of dependencies which muck up degrees-of-freedom and cause Rigor Mortis.

Sorry private block chains are not an evolution. They are devolution. And anyone who doesn't understand that, shouldn't be marketing anything in crypto.

study evolution and learn some history. how do things change? life didn't evolve from amoeba to humans in one go!

having japanese banks assimilate the 'idea' of a shared ledger (even if permissioned) is a stepping stone to decentralised finance. once they start using blockchains they won't go back, and when they fail the 'concept' of blockchains is already established and moving to open shared ledgers is easier.

do you expect banks to accept bitcoin straight off the bat?
do you expect banks to roll-over and die?

bollocks ... they'll evolve

How ever the banks evolve to decentralized block chains, they are extinct. So I don't see the point. NEM is extinct.

[jabo38]

How ever the banks evolve to decentralized block chains, they are extinct. So I don't see the point. NEM is extinct.

NEM's main chain is fully decentralized and uses the same APIs as Mijin.  Mijin is a private fork of NEM that has been optimized for speed and security.  It is a way for banks and/or other large businesses to figuratively speaking "dip their toes into water" of blockchains.  They get full control of their chain, get to build assets and trade with partners they trust.  

Later on if they want to start to trade on a public and open chain with anybody and everybody, in just a few minutes they can have their software ready to work on the NEM main chain.  

With one major banking testing this, and 5000 Japanese companies becoming connected to NEM via Infoteria adapting Mijin, it is reasonable to assume that some will also move off of Mijin and additionally run services on the NEM main chain.

And of course, we hope to sign more contracts and gain more partners too.  If/when those are signed and press releases are issued, then I will update here about that too.

[TPTB_need_war]

So the business model is to get banks to see advantages of block chains but to assuage their fears by giving them private block chains.

Then hope they will see the advantage of block chains but the pain of private block chains and evolve to the wide-world of sharing decentralized infrastructure.

In the meantime, others will be providing the financial services to the users bypassing the banks. Which do you think is a viral fasting growing paradigm?

Duh it is even close unless the old world paradigms can persist. NEM is leveraging the dinosaurs (who move too slow and will be dying off do the paradigm shift which renders them unneeded).

Will some banks find a way to leverage block chains and morph their business models? Yes maybe. But my bet is the entrepreneurs will beat them to it and scale orders-of-magnitude faster. Why? Because banks are behemoths blinded by their own protection of their historic business models (their inertia).

Again the point of my first link about Japanese programmers being aligned to corporate culture and continuity of authority is apropos.

Perhaps I am wrong and banks have some inertia that is important and users can't transition fast enough to the new paradigms. Bitcoin has shown that in many scenarios users can't make that clean break, e.g. in money transmitting the last mile is still the problem (getting the BTC converted to something fiat cash users can spend). But I am trying to drill right through this problem and blow the doors off it. I don't see NEM going for such a radical strategy. Instead they are betting that a radical innovator like me (and an army of entrepreneurs that will follow any successful paradigm shift) can't break down the Coasian barrier that is allowing banks to continue methodically in their old world stupor (and only dipping their toes in private chains). Coasian barriers fall in a waterfall collapse.

Yes I understand banks have a lot more money than we do. I am also confident (based on how technological shifts destroy the old) that when the Berlin wall falls, it will be rapid fall to irrelevance for the old paradigm that was once so powerful. Example how is retail sales of software-in-a-box doing this days as compared to the 1980s and early 1990s.

Perhaps it is safe route for the programmers of NEM to take. They will be assured of well paid jobs. But I don't see how these developments necessarily make NEM more attractive for investors or users of NEM?

I am not making any judgment about their technical and programming capabilities, which apparently are not derelict. It is nice to have synergy rolling with a good team of developers. But developers do not trump marketing. Not even close. What is extremely rare is to have capable developers who are also very astute marketers. It is a a mix of skills that doesn't naturally occur frequently, because engineering is such a different mindset from marketing. I feel it is like two different people inside me in that when I am doing engineering it is so opposite to the way I am thinking when I am doing marketing.

Good luck.

[jabo38]

I am not making any judgment about their technical and programming capabilities, which apparently are not derelict. It is nice to have synergy rolling with a good team of developers. But developers do not trump marketing. Not even close. What is extremely rare is to have capable developers who are also very astute marketers. It is a a mix of skills that doesn't naturally occur frequently, because engineering is such a different mindset from marketing. I feel it is like two different people inside me in that when I am doing engineering it is so opposite to the way I am thinking when I am doing marketing.

Good luck.

Right, developers don't make good marketers as a rule, and most of our developers would probably be pretty poor marketers.  That is why early on the core team divided up into a marketing team (the part I am on) and a development team.  In my opinion the development team is stronger than the marketing team, but we are trying hard with what we have. (no VC money, and not a lot of good connections at the start but good tech to talk about during cold calls and real names with real faces and real hands to shake during meetings) We are especially lucky in that Makoto as a developer has also turned out to be that rare instance of a good marketer too, so he is taking on a stronger role marketing these days than developing.  Having watched Makoto in person, I can say he is a naturally likeable guy who comes off quite well in person.  The kind of person that guys want to hang around and drink a beer with, but maybe the kind that girls aren't interested in so much. hahahaha.  That is actually good for us as girls aren't as big of a distraction to him then as they are lots of the rest of us.  I'm just worried what will happen when he is really rich.  :-)

[jabo38]

Perhaps it is safe route for the programmers of NEM to take. They will be assured of well paid jobs. But I don't see how these developments necessarily make NEM more attractive for investors or users of NEM?

We are trying to build a vibrant full economy on the blockchain with all kinds people, services, organizations and businesses, not just banks and big businesses, but boot strapping the NEM blockchain with services from major bank(s) and services from thousands of companies (if we get that to come to full fruition) isn't a bad way to bootstrap a chain.  If we have that as a base, then hopefully we can get all the rest of the regular people coming.

[TPTB_need_war]

Okay apologies to shoot at your balloon then if you are young guys taking your first shot at entreprenurialism and winging it. You will learn a lot as you go along. It is fun to sleep under the desks and share evening beer and pizza. Wish I could still eat like that.

I hope he can deviate from the profile of a Japanese hacker as one who can only conform to norms and authority. And who can accept radical shifts in direction based on changing winds of understanding about what is important and scalable. I can change my mind in an instant when I realize that another perspective is superior to the one I had. Adaptability is very important, because we are the R&D phase of crypto.

As I said in my prior post, I can't entirely rule out the potential to get some where with the banks. But it feels to me to be "slogging in mud" direction. But I am not in the trenches with you all so perhaps I don't see something that you see.

Try to articulate to us better about how this impacts us and how we fit in.

I am interested to work with talented and fun people who can adapt quickly.

[kelsey]

Bitcoin has shown that in many scenarios users can't make that clean break, e.g. in money transmitting the last mile is still the problem (getting the BTC converted to something fiat cash users can spend). But I am trying to drill right through this problem and blow the doors off it. I don't see NEM going for such a radical strategy. Instead they are betting that a radical innovator like me (and an army of entrepreneurs that will follow any successful paradigm shift) can't break down the Coasian barrier that is allowing banks to continue methodically in their old world stupor (and only dipping their toes in private chains).

now this is the real game in town. maybe at best its a long way from becoming a reality or at worst an idealists unrealistic fantasy. but for a p2p currency to ultimately succeed this step (ie too and from fiat) needs to be eliminated entirely.

[TPTB_need_war]

Perhaps it is safe route for the programmers of NEM to take. They will be assured of well paid jobs. But I don't see how these developments necessarily make NEM more attractive for investors or users of NEM?

We are trying to build a vibrant full economy on the blockchain with all kinds people, services, organizations and businesses, not just banks and big businesses, but boot strapping the NEM blockchain with services from major bank(s) and services from thousands of companies (if we get that to come to full fruition) isn't a bad way to bootstrap a chain.  If we have that as a base, then hopefully we can get all the rest of the regular people coming.

You have to ask yourself what is the advantage you bring to those businesses. And how does it scale. Is the relationship with the banks helping you bring something very enticing to them?

I don't have time to analyze this. But you need to think it out in detail.

And then you can articulate more than a vague statement to the prospective people interested in NEM how it helps them.

For example, I have thought out in detail exactly what I am going to write and how my target users are going to react at each detailed step in the way of interaction I have planned. And why I think they can't say no to the offer I am offering them.

[jabo38]

Good news.  In only a few days almost 100 companies have applied for a free 6 months trial of Mijin Cloudchains.  Is there any other chain other than Bitcoin that has 100 real businesses using it as a backbone?

-----------------

There is also a new Press Release for another company building on NEM called DragonFly Fintech, which was also the winner of an incubator sponsored by a well known group of Japanese VCs.  

http://www.reuters.com/article/dragonfly-fintech-idUSnPn1Ptv6F+91+PRN20151216

Here is an in depth PDF from DragonFly. http://dragonflyfintech.com/static/DF_Paper.pdf

[tokeweed]

Just curious, how did NEM land this partnership with a Japanese bank?

[jabo38]

Just curious, how did NEM land this partnership with a Japanese bank?

Its a good question.  How did NEM do what no other blockchain has done?

In short, it basically took a great product that is doing many things nobody else is doing, a team of people working very hard to market it, and getting lucky and getting very good connections.

Representatives of NEM were in talks with basically every major bank in Japan.  It takes a lot of meetings with different levels of people along the way, demonstrations, proposals, and then finally contracts.  All of these meetings and demonstrations were funded out of pocket, which was a risk.  In addition Makoto has spoken at over 20 major conferences in Japan (not just Bitcoin ones, but banking or government related ones) with sometimes thousands of people in attendances all wearing suits.  He has basically been working on this deal and other deals not very different from this since the launch of NEM part-time and full-time on it since he got VC funding and backing last summer for DragonFly.  Winning the a spot with one of Japan's most important incubators helped a lot too (4 out of 80 teams were accepted to continue) as important players are connected there.  

This deal wasn't like he had a good ole boy friend at a bank or bumped into somebody at a conference and drank beer with them.  It has been a coordinated full time job to make happen.  The group behind the bank is actually one of Japan's most powerful groups, and if things were to go well with this trial, there is potential for much bigger deals.  

Also, I would have to say, it isn't just Makoto.  Lon has been his partner with DragonFly pay and had this vision going back a couple of years and has been working hard and to that point long ago filed some patents that makes the tech industry look at them as an attractive partner.   Makoto also has a good partner, Asayama, the owner of the largest exchange in Japan, Zaif.  As well as people like Jimmy Homma in the Bitcoin community were very helpful in helping him to get started.  

And then there are the team (not one mind you) of talented devs working full time to bring this product to market and functioning well.  All of these devs I know well by now, and I can say that in addition to being great programmers, they are just all around bright and smart people.  The NEM development team only has 4 members, but I honestly put there capacity second only to the team at Blockstream, but luckily the NEM developers have a much easier and cleaner platform to build on.

All these factors were very important, if anyone of them wasn't there, I'm not sure these deals (or future ones) would have happened.  

[Tagcibat]

Lower market cap coins such as NEM can partner with major banks. Why cannot bitcoin, litecoin or other bigger coins do the same?

[kelsey]

Lower market cap coins such as NEM can partner with major banks. Why cannot bitcoin, litecoin or other bigger coins do the same?

why would they want to the whole point to cryptos is to be an alternative to the banks.

also pretty much across the board banks are experimenting with blockchain tech.

[tokeweed]

Just curious, how did NEM land this partnership with a Japanese bank?

Its a good question.  How did NEM do what no other blockchain has done?

In short, it basically took a great product that is doing many things nobody else is doing, a team of people working very hard to market it, and getting lucky and getting very good connections.

Representatives of NEM were in talks with basically every major bank in Japan.  It takes a lot of meetings with different levels of people along the way, demonstrations, proposals, and then finally contracts.  All of these meetings and demonstrations were funded out of pocket, which was a risk.  In addition Makoto has spoken at over 20 major conferences in Japan (not just Bitcoin ones, but banking or government related ones) with sometimes thousands of people in attendances all wearing suits.  He has basically been working on this deal and other deals not very different from this since the launch of NEM part-time and full-time on it since he got VC funding and backing last summer for DragonFly.  Winning the a spot with one of Japan's most important incubators helped a lot too (4 out of 80 teams were accepted to continue) as important players are connected there.  

This deal wasn't like he had a good ole boy friend at a bank or bumped into somebody at a conference and drank beer with them.  It has been a coordinated full time job to make happen.  The group behind the bank is actually one of Japan's most powerful groups, and if things were to go well with this trial, there is potential for much bigger deals.  

Also, I would have to say, it isn't just Makoto.  Lon has been his partner with DragonFly pay and had this vision going back a couple of years and has been working hard and to that point long ago filed some patents that makes the tech industry look at them as an attractive partner.   Makoto also has a good partner, Asayama, the owner of the largest exchange in Japan, Zaif.  As well as people like Jimmy Homma in the Bitcoin community were very helpful in helping him to get started.  

And then there are the team (not one mind you) of talented devs working full time to bring this product to market and functioning well.  All of these devs I know well by now, and I can say that in addition to being great programmers, they are just all around bright and smart people.  The NEM development team only has 4 members, but I honestly put there capacity second only to the team at Blockstream, but luckily the NEM developers have a much easier and cleaner platform to build on.

All these factors were very important, if anyone of them wasn't there, I'm not sure these deals (or future ones) would have happened.  

What is proof of importance exactly?  And how is it better (supposedly) than proof of stake?

[jabo38]

What is proof of importance exactly?  And how is it better (supposedly) than proof of stake?

PoI is so far only used by NEM.  In proof of stake a system is set up that encourages hoarding so that PoS overall incentives a rich gets richer scheme via holding.  This also isn't exactly very good for a blockchain too because that encourages a chain where people don't make transactions.  PoI seeks to encourage people to not just enter the system and hold but also spend, build on it, and use it.
 
In PoW, your actions (mining) determine who forms a block.
In PoS, how much you have determines who forms a block.  

In PoI, how much you have, your actions, and who you have those interactions with are all combined to make your importance.  The more your importance, the greater your chance of making a block.  

In PoI's case, your actions are not some randomly assigned and mostly irrelevant outside third party action of find this number or solve this random puzzle, but instead is spend and interact in the network.  

PoI is a zero sum game.  If mine goes up, then somebody else's must go down.  So your PoI is not just determined by what you do, but by also what other actors in the network are doing.  

The next big question then is, if PoI is determined by actions, well, then why shouldn't I just send all my coins around in a big circle and boost my PoI.  This is a faulty strategy for at least two reasons.  The first is that you will be spending lots of fees to make those transactions (when your goal is actually to collect fees).  In NEM there are no block rewards of bonus coins inflating the system.  Instead fees are earned from others transactions, so by doing that you are doing a good job at making others richer in the short term as they process those transactions and collect your fees.  The second reason is doing so destroys your stake part of the equation which is aged in at 10% per day.  So by send half of my XEM in a circle, even though my action score went up, I just immediately lost half of my stake.  

It is actually much more complicated than that.  But basically an active account with good transactions that are not just back and forth from itself but with other accounts not related can easily get 10% - 15% higher PoI and I imagine some accounts much more than that, and so therefore more blocks and more fees.  But definitely making a lot of transactions in the network isn't going to give you 200-300% more blocks I think.

Here is part of the formula.  I don't really claim to understand very much of it. hahahaha.  The NCDAware part of the formula is very similar to Google's Page Rank algo.  So the more pages that link to another page, the more important, likewise who you interact with and who they interact with makes clusters on the chain and will affect your PoI.  This helps to keep it from being gamed.  

[kelsey]

What is proof of importance exactly?  And how is it better (supposedly) than proof of stake?

PoI is so far only used by NEM.  In proof of stake a system is set up that encourages hoarding so that PoS overall incentives a rich gets richer scheme via holding.  This also isn't exactly very good for a blockchain too because that encourages a chain where people don't make transactions.  PoI seeks to encourage people to not just enter the system and hold but also spend, build on it, and use it.
 
In PoW, your actions (mining) determine who forms a block.
In PoS, how much you have determines who forms a block.  

In PoI, how much you have, your actions, and who you have those interactions with are all combined to make your importance.  The more your importance, the greater your chance of making a block.  

In PoI's case, your actions are not some randomly assigned and mostly irrelevant outside third party action of find this number or solve this random puzzle, but instead is spend and interact in the network.  

PoI is a zero sum game.  If mine goes up, then somebody else's must go down.  So your PoI is not just determined by what you do, but by also what other actors in the network are doing.  

The next big question then is, if PoI is determined by actions, well, then why shouldn't I just send all my coins around in a big circle and boost my PoI.  This is a faulty strategy for at least two reasons.  The first is that you will be spending lots of fees to make those transactions (when your goal is actually to collect fees).  In NEM there are no block rewards of bonus coins inflating the system.  Instead fees are earned from others transactions, so by doing that you are doing a good job at making others richer in the short term as they process those transactions and collect your fees.  The second reason is doing so destroys your stake part of the equation which is aged in at 10% per day.  So by send half of my XEM in a circle, even though my action score went up, I just immediately lost half of my stake.  

It is actually much more complicated than that.  But basically an active account with good transactions that are not just back and forth from itself but with other accounts not related can easily get 10% - 15% higher PoI and I imagine some accounts much more than that, and so therefore more blocks and more fees.  But definitely making a lot of transactions in the network isn't going to give you 200-300% more blocks I think.

Here is part of the formula.  I don't really claim to understand very much of it. hahahaha.  The NCDAware part of the formula is very similar to Google's Page Rank algo.  So the more pages that link to another page, the more important, likewise who you interact with and who they interact with makes clusters on the chain and will affect your PoI.  This helps to keep it from being gamed.  

exchanges can have alot of interactions, use members funds and yet have users pay the fees, so huge advantage to exchanges in the POI scheme?

[jabo38]

exchanges can have alot of interactions, use members funds and yet have users pay the fees, so huge advantage to exchanges in the POI scheme?

Exchanges in PoS can have lots of members funds vested towards forming blocks and still yet have users pay the fees, so it is very similar to PoS in that regards.  

Both are an improvement over PoW where exchanges have no power to affect anything and if they anger the wrong mining pools can have their transactions blocked.  Or some exchanges are suspected to collude with or be forced to partner with miners to pay them a little extra to make sure their transactions always go through.  And again, exchanges still charge their users fees on BTC transactions.  

Over all people in crypto giving all their coins to centralized third parties to do with what they want (Mt. Gox anyone?) is a problem across all major chains so far and is a reason why we really need trust minimized exchanges where people can participate in exchanges and yet still have control of their coins.  

To that end, it is very nice that there is a project being built on NEM that aims to do just that called Crypto Apex.  NEM's unique features with blockchain based multisig and mosaics is enabling this.  We hope to have more on this in the future, but we firmly believe that people should always control their own assets and coins, not exchanges.  

http://www.cryptoapex.com/

[bit1]

Interpret this formula would take some time.

[jabo38]

Interpret this formula would take some time.

I've seen it for months and still don't get it. hahahaha

It takes a math major I guess.

[bhokor]

Sorry but then which will the cloud service partnering with NEM? i am really interested about it but i have not found the info, if someone can help me with this

thanks in advance

[jabo38]

Sorry but then which will the cloud service partnering with NEM? i am really interested about it but i have not found the info, if someone can help me with this

thanks in advance

Here are a couple of links.
http://www.coindesk.com/press-releases/sakura-internet-tech-bureau-cloud-system-mijin-blockchain-free/
http://allcoinsnews.com/2015/12/18/free-mijin-cloudchain-beta-offered-by-tech-bureau-and-sakura-internet/

I'll try to some up, but it is a bit complicated.  There is a private fork of NEM that has been customized for speed and security in business settings.  That private chain is called Mijin.  There has been a lot of interest in Japan about using Mijin as a business solution chain, much in the same way R3 is being marketed in America/Europe. 

The owner of the largest Bitcoin exchange in Japan, also owns another company called Tech Bureau.  Tech Bureau is offering blockchain solutions with the Mijin chain to different companies, banks, and other internet services. 

Sakura Internet is a large cloud server service in Japan, and they have partnered with Tech Bureau.  They are offering 6 months of free Mijin blockchains for companies to test and build on.  After that 6 months, if these companies want to continue their contracts, they can pay for their plans. 

Incidentally since Sakura Internet announced that they landed the partnership with Tech Bureau and made a press release, their stock has performed really well on the Tokyo exchange. 



So the next question, is usually something like this.... "So great, Japan now has a private ledger they are all going to use, but how does that help NEM, and really how does that help me?  Aren't private ledgers owned by the companies so they won't really ever be buying in XEM, right?" 

ANd then answer is.... maybe.  But that actually isn't as bad as it sounds.  Mijin has partnered with a bank, with a enterprise business software serving 5000 companies, and now is being test by almost 100 additional companies independently.  But the beauty of the system is that Mijin and NEM actually use the same set of APIs for their feature set.  So by a company building a software to work on Mijin, they actually built a software that will work on NEM too. 

These companies are basically getting two for the price of one.  They get to use a private ledger with their select group of trusted partners or they get to use an open and decentralized chain that allows anyone to trade on it.  And likewise if somebody starts off on the free and open NEM chain, but their business grows and they want to have more control over their partners and scale to 1000 tx/s, then now they have software already ready to go for Mijin.  So it is an interesting option for a company that wants a private ledger, but maybe will someday use a public ledger a little, or likewise for somebody starting off on a public ledger but wants to keep their options open to switch to a private ledger later. 

We can assume that a lot of these companies building on Mijin will not ever touch the NEM main chain, but if even 10% of them did offer some of their services on the NEM main chain as they wanted to expand their market to anybody and everybody, then all of a sudden the NEM main chain would become a very busy chain very quickly.  This is going to take some time to scale out and up, but their is a lot of promise. 

[tokeweed]

Hows the volume of Sakura Internet?

[jabo38]

Hows the volume of Sakura Internet?

I'm not really sure, but there stock has gone up like 2 or 3 times its marketcap since this announcement.  That is like a crypto pump, not a stock on a major stock exchange. hahaha  http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/3778:JP

[tyz]

Oh, great news! Congrates to Makoto and all the others who worked on this deal.

Now, I know what caused the price jump of NEM three days ago

[BlackWidow]

Perhaps it is safe route for the programmers of NEM to take. They will be assured of well paid jobs. But I don't see how these developments necessarily make NEM more attractive for investors or users of NEM?

We are trying to build a vibrant full economy on the blockchain with all kinds people, services, organizations and businesses, not just banks and big businesses, but boot strapping the NEM blockchain with services from major bank(s) and services from thousands of companies (if we get that to come to full fruition) isn't a bad way to bootstrap a chain.  If we have that as a base, then hopefully we can get all the rest of the regular people coming.

You have to ask yourself what is the advantage you bring to those businesses. And how does it scale. Is the relationship with the banks helping you bring something very enticing to them?

I don't have time to analyze this. But you need to think it out in detail.

And then you can articulate more than a vague statement to the prospective people interested in NEM how it helps them.

For example, I have thought out in detail exactly what I am going to write and how my target users are going to react at each detailed step in the way of interaction I have planned. And why I think they can't say no to the offer I am offering them.

Wouldn't banks using your project in some way be beneficial?

Not saying that's all you would want, but would you welcome their participation?

[jabo38]

Wouldn't banks using your project in some way be beneficial?

Not saying that's all you would want, but would you welcome their participation?

Its hard for me to imagine a scenerio in which NEM technology gets used by millions of people via Mijin (yes millions), but somehow the main center chain of NEM doesn't benefit and grow way beyond what it is now.

[ironbit]

in my opinion, mass adoption is an unreachable goal. We should focus to bring NEM as tech to partners like banks, payment processors and so on. They have a need of NEM's tech or the blockchain tech in common. The normal guy usually does not have.

Wouldn't banks using your project in some way be beneficial?

Not saying that's all you would want, but would you welcome their participation?

Its hard for me to imagine a scenerio in which NEM technology gets used by millions of people via Mijin (yes millions), but somehow the main center chain of NEM doesn't benefit and grow way beyond what it is now.

[Nxtblg]

Hows the volume of Sakura Internet?

I'm not really sure, but there stock has gone up like 2 or 3 times its marketcap since this announcement.  That is like a crypto pump, not a stock on a major stock exchange. hahaha  http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/3778:JP

Actually, it reminds me of my old penny-stock days!

[BlackWidow]

in my opinion, mass adoption is an unreachable goal. We should focus to bring NEM as tech to partners like banks, payment processors and so on. They have a need of NEM's tech or the blockchain tech in common. The normal guy usually does not have.

Wouldn't banks using your project in some way be beneficial?

Not saying that's all you would want, but would you welcome their participation?

Its hard for me to imagine a scenerio in which NEM technology gets used by millions of people via Mijin (yes millions), but somehow the main center chain of NEM doesn't benefit and grow way beyond what it is now.

I think your right that NEM gaining tech partners is a great strategy, although I also think it should be a PART of the overall strategy.

Mass adoption IS possible IMHO.

Very difficult, yes.

I do believe that if NEM played it's cards just right, it can reach members of the general public.

Nobody has figured it out as of now. It has always been my belief that the stars will align at some point in the future, and we will see the interest of the general public gain traction when it comes to cryptocurrency in general.

Will it be NEM? Who knows.

I can say the approach NEM has taken looks promising to say the least. There are a few other projects with promise as well.

One day it will happen I think. A coin will have a message that reaches the masses, and that message will be successful in showing the benefits to them in a convincing way.

It could be NEM. It has many of the pieces already there, and has the potential to get the rest into place, especially in light of the recent developments we've seen.

[jabo38]

Thanks Black Widow.  I agree too.

[jabo38]

Here is a pretty good news write up.  No hype, no BS. 

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/japanese-financial-institutions-partner-with-technology-startups-to-utilize-the-blockchain/

[wiser]

Very interesting thread. Watching

[jabo38]

Sakura Internet's stock frozen again for another day for rising to fast.  Since making a press release saying they will work with NEM, they have gone from a $65 million marketcap to $340 million marketcap.  



Here is their press release from the day when the stock started going up http://www.coindesk.com/press-releases/sakura-internet-tech-bureau-cloud-system-mijin-blockchain-free/

And here is their stock price graph form Wallstreet Journal  http://quotes.wsj.com/JP/3778

[tyz]

This really seems that i need to stake up my NEM amount immediately. Hope this positive development will hold on in the future.

Sakura Internet's stock frozen again for another day for rising to fast.  Since making a press release saying they will work with NEM, they have gone from a $65 million marketcap to $340 million marketcap.  



Here is their press release from the day when the stock started going up http://www.coindesk.com/press-releases/sakura-internet-tech-bureau-cloud-system-mijin-blockchain-free/

And here is their stock price graph form Wallstreet Journal  http://quotes.wsj.com/JP/3778

[jabo38]

This really seems that i need to stake up my NEM amount immediately. Hope this positive development will hold on in the future.

Hi Tyz,

This one looks just like the last, but if you look closely this is a 2nd completely different company. 



Press Release: http://www.coindesk.com/press-releases/infoteria-private-blockchain-startu/

[I am the guy]

NEM is making real world impacts outside cryptoland. Very encouraging. 

[jabo38]

NEM is making real world impacts outside cryptoland. Very encouraging. 

Speaking of real world impacts.  There is a group in Japan called Nomura.  It is big, like really big.  Basically every person in Japan knows them. 

They have a think tank that has come out with some very favorable conclusions for us. 

This article references DragonFly Fintech and SBI, both of which are using NEM technology. 

http://www.coindesk.com/nomura-research-consortiums-banks-blockchains/?utm_source=CoinDesk+subscribers&utm_campaign=f2a14de1db-EMAIL_RSS_CAMPAIGNT2&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_74abb9e6ab-f2a14de1db-79029057

[Thenoticer]

Article just references buzzword blockchain tech. More blockchain word. Blockchain blockchain blockchain. No meat. Wheres the beef?

NEM is making real world impacts outside cryptoland. Very encouraging. 

Speaking of real world impacts.  There is a group in Japan called Nomura.  It is big, like really big.  Basically every person in Japan knows them. 

They have a think tank that has come out with some very favorable conclusions for us. 

This article references DragonFly Fintech and SBI, both of which are using NEM technology. 

http://www.coindesk.com/nomura-research-consortiums-banks-blockchains/?utm_source=CoinDesk+subscribers&utm_campaign=f2a14de1db-EMAIL_RSS_CAMPAIGNT2&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_74abb9e6ab-f2a14de1db-79029057

[jabo38]

Article just references buzzword blockchain tech. More blockchain word. Blockchain blockchain blockchain.

Okay.... So, I'll try to make it a little more clear and explain what is happening reading in between the lines (or really just reading them plainly) because news of the likes of this doesn't usually come to BTT or even to Bitcoin for that matter (If somebody has one for Bitcoin, please post it.  It would be nice to compare.)  

One of the most powerful banking organizations in the world is exploring NEM. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomura_Securities

It is one of 20 banks that trades directly with the Federal Reserve as a primary dealer.  

Additionally a Japanese bank SBI is testing NEM along with DragonFly Fintech which is also testing NEM.  

I have already linked press releases by those two companies, but this is the first time the think tank NRI for Nomura has spoken out on this issue.  

This think tank is Japan's oldest and most important think tank, which comments and dictates lots of policies in lots of areas in Japan.  

No meat. Wheres the beef?

Even the bun and vegetables on this sandwich are made of beef.

[makoto1337]

Grass fed, Kobe beef

[jabo38]

Mijin to team up with GMO to provide back end support for online games.

http://jp.techcrunch.com/2016/02/01/gmo-techbureau/

[Nxtblg]

Mijin to team up with GMO to provide back end support for online games.

http://jp.techcrunch.com/2016/02/01/gmo-techbureau/

Thanks for the update.

[Djinou94]

Are you sure you are not confusing xem and xrp?

http://forklog.net/ripple-rises-and-partners-with-japanese-financial-giant/

[patmast3r]

Are you sure you are not confusing xem and xrp?

http://forklog.net/ripple-rises-and-partners-with-japanese-financial-giant/

he said mijin not NEM. Also he posted an article with it so i guess he's not confusing it.

[Richard1972x]

I wanted to buy some Nem at Poloniex. But the price was very high. Is it possible that if you want to buy XEM at Polo you buy a trading lot of 1000 shares? Thanks for the information.

[suda123]

I wanted to buy some Nem at Poloniex. But the price was very high. Is it possible that if you want to buy XEM at Polo you buy a trading lot of 1000 shares? Thanks for the information.

is it to expensive? should I buy?

[Richard1972x]

I wanted to buy some Nem at Poloniex. But the price was very high. Is it possible that if you want to buy XEM at Polo you buy a trading lot of 1000 shares? Thanks for the information.

is it to expensive? should I buy?

It went up 30% today. But I still see potential as long the market cap is still in single digest.