Ok Coin , Huobi and other chin exchange..they are cheating all of us.

[CIYAM]

Also in regards to this supposed "volume faking" I'd question exactly how that is supposed to be taking place.

For sure I could place an offer and then place a bid for the same amount and price but if others get in before me there is actually no guarantee that the offer is still there (so the bid could quite likely end up unfilled meaning there is a risk of actually losing funds if the price moves which is not likely to be something the exchanges would do with their own funds).

I think it would require a bit more than just zero fees to be able to really be certain of "rigging the volume" (for a start your bids and offers would have to be processed before all others to be sure that nothing goes wrong in regards to the order matching).

It seems to me a lot of the protestations about the volume on Chinese exchanges comes from western exchanges (or on their behalf) who haven't worked out a business model that doesn't involve taking a fee from each trade.

What really matters is that when you make a bid it is matched against an offer - if that wasn't happening then I'd be concerned but provided your bids get matched then who really cares about where the offers came from?

[bryant.coleman]

As that is not the case I would be surprised if they would say that (not that you would necessarily get any help if a Chinese exchange went belly up though either).

You do realise that in mainland China you can transfer RMB to and from exchanges such as BTCC directly from your bank account (and that this has been the case for quite a while now)?

Also you should realise that mainland laws do not apply to Hong Kong (nor vice versa). For all general purposes Hong Kong is still a separate country (you might want to read about the "one country two systems" stuff if you think that mainland officials have any say over the laws and there enforcement in Hong Kong).

I was being skeptical, after seeing the aftermath of the Mt Gox robbery in Japan. The robbery happened more than two years back, and till now the former users have not received a single penny in their account. If this can happen in Japan, which is famous for having strong law enforcement, then what will be the case if something similar happens in China?

[randy8777]

nothing new. day after day the exchanges huobi and okcoin have mega loads of volumes. even on calm days. it's more than obvious that these exchanges fake their volume by probably 10 times.

[CIYAM]

I was being skeptical, after seeing the aftermath of the Mt Gox robbery in Japan. The robbery happened more than two years back, and till now the former users have not received a single penny in their account. If this can happen in Japan, which is famous for having strong law enforcement, then what will be the case if something similar happens in China?

It is reasonable to be skeptical about what would happen if an exchange disappears but I think that actually applies to pretty much every single Bitcoin exchange in the world (not just those in Asia).

If Bitstamp just did a Gox how exactly do you think its members are better protected than those in China?

[bryant.coleman]

If Bitstamp just did a Gox how exactly do you think its members are better protected than those in China?

I hope so (although not 100% sure about it). Since Bitstamp is based in Slovenia (which happens to be an European Union member nation), the chances are that if the owner tries to run away with all the coins of the customers, then an Interpol red alert will be issued for him and eventually he will be arrested and the coins returned to the rightful owners.

[CIYAM]

Interpol red alert will be issued for him and eventually he will be arrested and the coins returned to the rightful owners.

Seriously - you think that Interpol are going to find the coins when they are stolen?

Why don't you just send Interpol to Japan to solve the Mt. Gox problem then?

(can't work out if you are just trolling or what)

[bryant.coleman]

Seriously - you think that Interpol are going to find the coins when they are stolen?

Why don't you just send Interpol to Japan to solve the Mt. Gox problem then?

(can't work out if you are just trolling or what)

I don't know why Mark Karpeles is a free man right now, despite stealing $600 million worth of coins and ruining the lives of tens of thousands of people. But do you really think that a crime of such magnitude will be left unpunished in the European Union? Interpol has arrested people for financial crimes of far lower volume.

Also, it is not about finding the coins. It is about catching a criminal who is stealing $600 million worth of assets from the unsuspecting customers.

[CIYAM]

I don't know why Mark Karpeles is a free man right now

Are you sure he is?

Also - don't compare Japan to China (not even remotely similar and in fact the Chinese hate the Japanese more than anyone else on earth).

Also, it is not about finding the coins. It is about catching a criminal who is stealing $600 million worth of assets from the unsuspecting customers.

I am pretty sure if an exchange like BTCC tried to rip off its customers they would feel the heat of the Chinese authorities (and maybe worse they might feel the heat of the Chinese mafia).

I hope you are aware that China has a record of capital punishment for those caught out stealing a lot (it is actually one of the few countries in the world that punishes "white collar crime" with death sentences).

Your precious European or even American justice systems are not going to hand out death penalties for ripping off people are they?

So basically by your own logic you are safer to have invested your funds in a Chinese exchange rather than a western one (the western one will never face a capital punishment crime so can get away with stealing your money without fearing for their lives).

[mayax]

So i think that chinese BTC traffic is completely false,the bitcoin that are on their sites are not real,they are present only on their systems, they do not really exist.

So all the pump of the last 2 month are fake, the price of BTC is in the hands of these scammers with no regulation.

no one says anything, perhaps because it benefits everyone this fake bull...

very good point. I said that 2 years ago too .

yes, nobody is saying a word because it benefits. the BTC media belongs to them (same shareholders as exchangers) and the  new stupid "investors" are attracted by having these huge price fluctuations. The whole BTC market is manipulated by the big exchangers. Look to their buying/selling prices. How is it possible that all of them has almost the same prices?!

They are supposed to be independent and the sell/buy price should reflected the clients` orders....

Fake volumes, fake transactions so that everythings appears as being BIG. Instead is a big shit
almost nobody is using BTC in real life. the whole BTC (over 90%) is from black market like ponzies, so called forex, buying/selling illegal things. fake IDs, stolen credit card infos and so on....

[CIYAM]

So i think that chinese BTC traffic is completely false,the bitcoin that are on their sites are not real,they are present only on their systems, they do not really exist.

So all the pump of the last 2 month are fake, the price of BTC is in the hands of these scammers with no regulation.

no one says anything, perhaps because it benefits everyone this fake bull...

very good point. I said that 2 years ago too .

yes, nobody is saying a word because it benefits. new stupid "investors" are attracted by having these huge price fluctuations. The whole BTC market is manipulated by the big exchangers.

Again - there is no regulation on *any BTC exchanges*. So why are you just picking on the Chinese ones?

I have also pointed out that just because you have zero fees doesn't mean that you can easily "fake volume" due to the order matching risk.

If you guys would like to present a logical, well thought out answer to these things please do (but I am pretty sure that isn't likely to happen).

If you are a new investor on an exchange then what would "piss you off" is if your bid is not matched to an order (when you can see it clearly should be). The other thing that is going to "piss you off" is if you can't remove your funds (either in BTC or in fiat) from the exchange. These are about the only things that are going to matter to you as an investor (whether or not other people think that the volume is "faked" is of zero interest to an investor).

[mayax]

So i think that chinese BTC traffic is completely false,the bitcoin that are on their sites are not real,they are present only on their systems, they do not really exist.

So all the pump of the last 2 month are fake, the price of BTC is in the hands of these scammers with no regulation.

no one says anything, perhaps because it benefits everyone this fake bull...

very good point. I said that 2 years ago too .

yes, nobody is saying a word because it benefits. new stupid "investors" are attracted by having these huge price fluctuations. The whole BTC market is manipulated by the big exchangers.

Again - there is no regulation on *any BTC exchanges*. So why are you just picking on the Chinese ones?

I have also pointed out that just because you have zero fees doesn't mean that you can easily "fake volume" due to the order matching risk.

If you guys would like to present a logical, well thought out answer to these things please do (but I am pretty sure that isn't likely to happen).

It's not only about Chinese exchangers. All the exchangers are doing the same (Bitstamp, Bitfinex, Kraken, BTC-e and so on). Fake volumes, fake transactions.

Fake volumes = manipulated market. you should be very interested about that if you are a BTC player.

Take a look here : http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/USD.html

How is is possible in a so called decentralized market to have almost the same price?

[CIYAM]

So now that we know that the "investors" don't care about the "supposed faked volume" the question becomes then - "who does"?.

I will put forward that the only people who care about that are the exchanges that don't have zero trading fees (or the people that they might hire to say so).

It is in their interest to try and discredit the Chinese exchanges (and BTCC has actually been around longer than pretty much any other fiat exchange) because they can't compete with zero fees.

I would say - adjust your business. Just like films these days make all of their money in the first week (so they don't actually even need to make money from DVDs, etc.).

The argument that "piracy is making Hollywood broke" is a very weak one yet it seems that the western Bitcoin exchanges are wanting to try and use that same sort of argument against the zero fee Chinese exchanges.

[Intristing]

We all know the fake volumes in some exchanges. There is no effect from these exchanges. We do not care anymore.

[mayax]

We all know the fake volumes in some exchanges. There is no effect from these exchanges. We do not care anymore.

what you mean "There is no effect from these exchanges" ?

Of course, there is a huge impact. Many people are thinking that there are a lot of transactions and that there is a dynamic market when it is not. Those who want to put some money in this shit call BTC trading are cheated because of that.

Also, it's not in "some" exchanges. All the exchangers have fake exchanges(maybe a small volume of fake transactions has those with financial licenses because they have to be audited). But there only few exchangers with financial licenses(2-3) so the rest of them are doing whatever they want.

"You" must be very obtuse to think there is no impact. All the BTC market is manipulated but these exchangers. They can go the price up and down; depending of their interest. They make fortunes on your money.

[jaysabi]

Yep, in terms of trading volume displayed by thrse exchanges. That isn't new for us and they've been doing that for almost a year now. Sometimes, I just get surprised how these exchanges achieve a volume that big compared to what Western exchanges can collectively.

I thought the Chinese exchanges didn't charge trading fees, unlike the western exchanges, so there is no financial penalty to churning out trades. The volume might be legitimate.

[mayax]

Yep, in terms of trading volume displayed by thrse exchanges. That isn't new for us and they've been doing that for almost a year now. Sometimes, I just get surprised how these exchanges achieve a volume that big compared to what Western exchanges can collectively.

I thought the Chinese exchanges didn't charge trading fees, unlike the western exchanges, so there is no financial penalty to churning out trades. The volume might be legitimate.

No, their volumes are fake.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1253730.0

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chinese-bitcoin-exchange-accused-faking-trade-data-1430122

just search : Bitcoin fake volumes ...and you will find a lot of information.

[thejaytiesto]

well the other exchange reflect the true value anyway, even if the demand was artificially increased by their faked pump, the demand adapted to it

anyway anything that can increase the bitcoin value it's a good thing

This is true though. Even if the chinese are trying to pull an MtGox on us, the other exchanges aren't Chinese and people are buying for real money, therefore that's the real value of Bitcoin.. everything else is just a conspiracy.

[coinyard]

Yep, in terms of trading volume displayed by thrse exchanges. That isn't new for us and they've been doing that for almost a year now. Sometimes, I just get surprised how these exchanges achieve a volume that big compared to what Western exchanges can collectively.

I thought the Chinese exchanges didn't charge trading fees, unlike the western exchanges, so there is no financial penalty to churning out trades. The volume might be legitimate.

There are some analysis about the trading volumes in the Chinese exchanges. Some analysis claim there are robots working in those exchanges.

[mayax]

Yep, in terms of trading volume displayed by thrse exchanges. That isn't new for us and they've been doing that for almost a year now. Sometimes, I just get surprised how these exchanges achieve a volume that big compared to what Western exchanges can collectively.

I thought the Chinese exchanges didn't charge trading fees, unlike the western exchanges, so there is no financial penalty to churning out trades. The volume might be legitimate.

There are some analysis about the trading volumes in the Chinese exchanges. Some analysis claim there are robots working in those exchanges.

All the exchangers are doing the same.
Bitfinex, Bitstamp, Kraken, etc....fake volumes. that means price manipulation, market manipulation.
These guys would be in jail on a regulated market

[~Bitcoin~]

If they are making fake transaction volume than is the price of bitcoin is just the made one by those exchangers ?
If robots are doing trading than it can be counted as real but if exchangers are making this bullshit, why don't they get punished. It will be scary to bitcoin if they are in real making fake volumes.