[DELETE ME] 2013 Silver Casascius Coins With PGP Chains

[Blazed]

I have several coins with a complete PGP chain of ownership. I am the second owner of all of them and would be willing to extend the chains to a buyer. I am not sure that I want to sell many as these chains are rare. I must give credit to where credit is due...Nubbins! Nubbins is right about these chains if we ever find fake coins etc.. they will be the only way to be sure you own a real coin.

Taking offers on them - I will post some general prices ifI get some decent offers.

2013 Casascius Silver Singles

2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt Singles

2013 Casascius Silver Halves


Buying any 2013 Silver tenth with PGP chains...

[woodson]

I'm interested.  Are they ANACS graded?

[Blazed]

I'm interested.  Are they ANACS graded?

Yes, they are all graded MS-68 by ANACS. I will toss some pictures in the OP later this evening. Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

[woodson]

Sounds great.  I just purchased a coin from Nubbins.  I'll be back online tomorrow afternoon.  Thanks Blazed.

[swagman2]

.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

[Quickseller]

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

There is nothing to prevent someone from signing and extending the chain.

Anyone in possession of the coin should know that the coin was in ANACS's possession based on the ANACS slab, and it is up to the person relying on the chain to decide if it is broken or not. Additionally you would need to trust every person who is part of the chain to have not signed a false GPG message when the chain was extended.

In this case, I would opine that the chain is still valid presuming that the signatures check out and all parties in the chain were at least somewhat reputable as of when they extended the chain.

[Blazed]

.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...

[Blazed]

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

There is nothing to prevent someone from signing and extending the chain.

Anyone in possession of the coin should know that the coin was in ANACS's possession based on the ANACS slab, and it is up to the person relying on the chain to decide if it is broken or not. Additionally you would need to trust every person who is part of the chain to have not signed a false GPG message when the chain was extended.

In this case, I would opine that the chain is still valid presuming that the signatures check out and all parties in the chain were at least somewhat reputable as of when they extended the chain.

Yes everyone in the chain is very well known...and fun fact: They all make their own coins!

[Quickseller]

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

There is nothing to prevent someone from signing and extending the chain.

Anyone in possession of the coin should know that the coin was in ANACS's possession based on the ANACS slab, and it is up to the person relying on the chain to decide if it is broken or not. Additionally you would need to trust every person who is part of the chain to have not signed a false GPG message when the chain was extended.

In this case, I would opine that the chain is still valid presuming that the signatures check out and all parties in the chain were at least somewhat reputable as of when they extended the chain.

Yes everyone in the chain is very well known...and fun fact: They all make their own coins!

Mike --> smoothie --> you

[swagman2]

.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...

Yes. The chain is broken as soon as the coin leave Mike.

Let's be real here. The PGP scheme is invented by Nubbins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268965.0

Mike addressed the problem by issuing digital signed PDF (not the same as PGP): https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/i-am-taking-orders-again/

The scans can be used "to aid in establishing their authenticity".

Nubbins PGP signature on top is not needed.

[astrocity1981]

The reason I buy my casascius from bitcoin talk is because I have trust in the members that dealt with Mike before I joined. Ognasty, Blazed, Nubbins, and many others that bought from him. I almost bought coins from Ebay, but I know its full of scammers from China, Nigeria,and other scammer countries. It really depends on what type of buyer you are. I am a collector and love the coins for their sleek design and importance of being the first physical bitcoins. If I trade coins for profit then maybe a PGP chain would be worthwhile.

[l8nit3]

I'd love to see some photos, now are these coins attached to a wallet? or simply a 'show piece'?

[Blazed]

.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...

Yes. The chain is broken as soon as the coin leave Mike.

Let's be real here. The PGP scheme is invented by Nubbins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268965.0

Mike addressed the problem by issuing digital signed PDF (not the same as PGP): https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/i-am-taking-orders-again/

The scans can be used "to aid in establishing their authenticity".

Nubbins PGP signature on top is not needed.

Not really...The scans from Mike prove he made some coins with those first bits. If someone make fakes and uses the same first bits then PGP chains show who owns the real ones.

Here is the example...

-Silver Coin first bits of 123abc is created by Mike and sold with scans to someone.

-Someone creates a fake Cas coin using same first bits of 123abc

I have the coin with a PGP chain and you have the other one with no chain....which coin is real? The one that shows a chain is obviously the real coin. The entire point is to deal with fakes should they hit the market.

[Hellot]

Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?

[miffman]

Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?

There are none that imitate it perfectly, but there are some hologram fakes. You can see that they are clearly fake though.

[Blazed]

Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?

If Bitcoin were to ever reach 2-3k in value you better believe China will starting making them.

[bestcoin_59]

Not really...The scans from Mike prove he made some coins with those first bits. If someone make fakes and uses the same first bits then PGP chains show who owns the real ones.

Here is the example...

-Silver Coin first bits of 123abc is created by Mike and sold with scans to someone.

-Someone creates a fake Cas coin using same first bits of 123abc

I have the coin with a PGP chain and you have the other one with no chain....which coin is real? The one that shows a chain is obviously the real coin. The entire point is to deal with fakes should they hit the market.

I assume a scammer could easily buy a coin with a chain and then make a fake coin with the same first bits. Since the PGP chain is just a file, it is very easy to duplicate. In that case both coins would look legitimate. If my assumption is correct then the PGP chain is, IMHO, useless.

Jeff.

[Quickseller]

.........Nubbins and I both agreed that ANACS does not break the chain since they left my possession (ANACS is obviously a trusted source).

Nubbins have been talking shit about ANACS for years, he say that they cannot be trusted.

Example:
http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-otc/logs/2013/12/31

(c) i don't trust ANACS enough

The chain is broken as soon as the coin is in custody of someone not able to sign and extend the chain.

By your logic nubbins never got a valid coin then. Did the mail person get included in the chain? Unless he drove and got them chain is broken? ANACS is more trusted with coins than anyone here. We almost need a clear set of rules to follow for this or a standard created. Paging nubbins...

Yes. The chain is broken as soon as the coin leave Mike.

Let's be real here. The PGP scheme is invented by Nubbins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268965.0

Mike addressed the problem by issuing digital signed PDF (not the same as PGP): https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/i-am-taking-orders-again/

The scans can be used "to aid in establishing their authenticity".

Nubbins PGP signature on top is not needed.

Not really...The scans from Mike prove he made some coins with those first bits. If someone make fakes and uses the same first bits then PGP chains show who owns the real ones.

Here is the example...

-Silver Coin first bits of 123abc is created by Mike and sold with scans to someone.

-Someone creates a fake Cas coin using same first bits of 123abc

I have the coin with a PGP chain and you have the other one with no chain....which coin is real? The one that shows a chain is obviously the real coin. The entire point is to deal with fakes should they hit the market.

The signed PDF scans have pictures of the coins and the holograms were all put on by hand by mike so there are small variances on the placement of where exactly the hologram is from coin to coin. So when you come across that you think could be a fake, you compare the coin you have verses the picture of the coin in the PDF.

What PGP chains do is prove that reputable people owned the coin previously so if you trust each of the owners enough to not knowingly sell a fake coin then you would be additionally confident that the coin is not fake. I am not sure this additional assurance is going to be worth the 1btc per coin that nubbins has announced he is charging for it.

[ducatitalia]

Has anyone actually found a fake Casascius?

If Bitcoin were to ever reach 2-3k in value you better believe China will starting making them.

Just a thought...I would offer that any Casascius coin graded by ANACS before the first documented counterfeits turn up, could be considered just as authentic as any chain-of-custody coin.  This approach, along with an extensive global network of authentication processes and experts, is the method in which the traditional sports card collecting industry handles counterfeiting.  The challenges associated with counterfeiting go back ages and spans countless industries...and many of those same authentication and verification procedures currently used and trusted with varying degrees of success, can be implemented for Casascius and other digital currency collectibles as well.  I'm guessing that the small percentage of chain-of-custody coins in existence won't be the only ones verifiable as authentic regardless of future BTC value or volume of fakes flooding the market.

That said, at this early stage of Casascius collecting, having PGP-signed COC is certainly a nice bonus.

[Blazed]

I agree that 1BTC per coin is pretty pricey for the documentation. I think something like an extra .5BTC - 1BTC for a set of coins is more realistic. I was hoping to get an offer for 1 set with PGP. I am keeping all of the rest for my own personal collection.

1 set:

2013 Casascius Silver Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt Single MS-68
2013 Casascius Silver Half MS-68

All 3 come with a chain where I am the 2nd owner (all 3 coins came from the same source who bought rolls from Mike). Whoever buys them will get the chain extended to them as part of the trade.

The problem with using ANACS is the fakes could be around for 6+ months before anyone even knows. How would you catch a fake considering we never redeem them?