If you preordered a BFL ASIC rig back in August and paid for it in Bitcoin...

[Rassah]

... that means...

($13.50 - $10.50) / $10.50 = 28.5%
$30,000 * 28.5% = $8,550

...you have lost $8,550 of potential bitcoin capital gains, or that a BFL ASIC Rig would have cost you $8,550, or that had BFL keept ASIC Rig customers' preorders in bitcoin, it would have owed each of them $8,550 by now.

... Is this in any way relevant?

[1715365959]

1715365959

[crazyates]

... Is this in any way relevant?

Not really. You can't judge past purchases on the exchange rate at the time. As far as I'm concerned, I didn't "lose money" in any purchase, whether it was at $2.5 or $15 / BTC. I made a decision to buy something for a certain number of coins, and at the time thought it was a good idea, and there's nothing I can do about it now. You can't go to a seller and say "I think the exchange rate will be 3x what it is today, so I'm only going to pay you 1/3 of what you're asking". Sure that's what happened in the market between then and now, but back then you didn't know anything for certain.

What if the price goes back down to $3 like it was a year ago? BFL gonna ask you for the rest of you coins? (yes, I know BFL doesn't touch the coins, but w/e).

If you want to hold onto your coins and wait till the price hits $25 before you purchase anything, be my guest. But in the mean time, BTC is a currency, meant to be traded and used to purchase things, so that's what most people will do with them.

Just my 2 bitcents. 

[Mapuo]

Another brainless topic...

[bcpokey]

By putting in your 2 bit cents now, they are only worth a fraction of what they would be in the future.

I kid, but anyway, I see both sides. One of bit coins biggest problems is proper valuation. How do you run a business when you can't hold the currency you are transacting in, because it can double or halve in a couple months time?
Just suck it up, or cash out to fiat I guess. You gotta roll with the punches sometimes.

But the point people are making is that taking money from people months in advance of product existence has cost those people money. They could have simply taken a deposit as promise against the full cost when product was ready (which is standard).

So both sides have merit.

[Rassah]

I made a decision to buy something for a certain number of coins, and at the time thought it was a good idea,

I guess the main point is that, in hindsight, it was a poor decision, based on BFL's overly optimistic delivery date claims. Regardless of whether they deliver ASICs in the future, their claims have already cost people a lot of unrealized money, and that's   (granted, it could've gone the other way as well, but Bitcoin up! Up! UP! and all that, plus the rise w/ reward drop was somewhat predictable)

BTW, I would have been in the same boat, originally planning to preorder in early September, but I was surprised, and prevented from doing so, by severe limits on bank transfer amounts ($5k at a time), which, combined with 3 to 7 day waiting periods, meant it wasn't until late October until I had enough BTC to preorder, and by that point, I figured I might as well just wait to order when they come out (so my $30k of BTC is just sitting there, mining capital gains). I.e. THANKS overly restrictive, over-regulated, obnoxious, fiat currency banks!  

[thebaron]

Don't spend pre-order money you can't lose, lol.

[Easy2Mine]

($13.50 - $10.50) / $13.50 = 28.5%

My calculator must be broken, it shows something different.
I think you mean ($13.50 - $10.50) / $10.50 = 28.5%

[Unacceptable]

At the time I preordered my BFL units,BTC was @ $6.30.No,I didn't "lose" anything.

As crazy said,if the tables were turned & BTC were @ $3.00 now,would it mean BFL would ask for the difference 

BTW,if your "holding" coins,they aren't really worth anything until you cash them in,whatever the market price is what they are worth at that time 

Heck,the $$$$ has lost ground since then too,maybe Newegg should ask for the difference on that 7970 I bought back in March 

[tacotime]

umad

[Unacceptable]

umad

  Not in the least 

I wish my units were on thier way,but stuff happens   

[Syke]

At the time I preordered my BFL units,BTC was @ $6.30.No,I didn't "lose" anything.

Oh, but you did. If you bought a Single, you spent rougly 200 BTC for a place in line, and when BFL starts shipping, they'll go through all pre-orders pretty quick. Someone ordering today will get their rig at nearly the same time, but it'll only cost them 100 BTC. BFL suckered you into giving them an extra 100 BTC for nothing.

[Bogart]

At the time I preordered my BFL units,BTC was @ $6.30.No,I didn't "lose" anything.

Oh, but you did. If you bought a Single, you spent rougly 200 BTC for a place in line, and when BFL starts shipping, they'll go through all pre-orders pretty quick. Someone ordering today will get their rig at nearly the same time, but it'll only cost them 100 BTC. BFL suckered you into giving them an extra 100 BTC for nothing.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.  BFL started shipping FPGA Singles in March, and only finally caught up the order backlog now in November.

At today's difficulty, 12 days at 60Ghps would make up the 100 BTC difference.

Now if another ASIC maker ships a month or more before BFL, the effect will be a lot less pronounced.

[bcpokey]

At the time I preordered my BFL units,BTC was @ $6.30.No,I didn't "lose" anything.

Oh, but you did. If you bought a Single, you spent rougly 200 BTC for a place in line, and when BFL starts shipping, they'll go through all pre-orders pretty quick. Someone ordering today will get their rig at nearly the same time, but it'll only cost them 100 BTC. BFL suckered you into giving them an extra 100 BTC for nothing.

That's an interesting (albeit somewhat harsh) way of looking at it. So is an early pre-order spot worth 100+BTC? I wonder...

Assuming that BFL can put out about 21THash / week (their claim), you would need to be roughly within the first 2 batches to go out for it to be worth the 100BTC hole you start out with, assuming that BFL ships first, and capacity goes online in discret 21THash chunks/week, rather than continuous addition as they suggest they will do after first batch of ?? Thash. Or in other words, it would be cost-effective to cancel your spot in the pre-orders and re-order today if you are later than that in the pre-order list and originally paid with bitcoin.

Does Tom suffer from this same issue?

_{#s wise, the third batch only makes roughly 96BTC back before the late order comes online. This is of course subject to a great deal of supposition regarding timing of orders, and rate of fulfillment}

[Syke]

Or in other words, it would be cost-effective to cancel your spot in the pre-orders and re-order today if you are later than that in the pre-order list and originally paid with bitcoin.

That won't help. No matter how many BTC you sent them, you'll get 100 BTC back today if you cancel. Early pre-order people are screwed.

[bcpokey]

Or in other words, it would be cost-effective to cancel your spot in the pre-orders and re-order today if you are later than that in the pre-order list and originally paid with bitcoin.

That won't help. No matter how many BTC you sent them, you'll get 100 BTC back today if you cancel. Early pre-order people are screwed.

Oh really, they send you back the equivalent exchange rate amount of coins rather than the number of coins you paid? That's a shame. Then yeah, nevermind. Some people will do ok, some people will be boned. Guess it's good that they have a "you win some you lose some" attitude.

[Rassah]

My calculator must be broken, it shows something different.
I think you mean ($13.50 - $10.50) / $10.50 = 28.5%

Thanks. My boss walked in and interrupted me as I was writing that out (had the result on my calculator) and I got distracted half way through the formula. OP fixed.

[Unacceptable]

At the time I preordered my BFL units,BTC was @ $6.30.No,I didn't "lose" anything.

Oh, but you did. If you bought a Single, you spent rougly 200 BTC for a place in line, and when BFL starts shipping, they'll go through all pre-orders pretty quick. Someone ordering today will get their rig at nearly the same time, but it'll only cost them 100 BTC. BFL suckered you into giving them an extra 100 BTC for nothing.

That's an interesting (albeit somewhat harsh) way of looking at it. So is an early pre-order spot worth 100+BTC? I wonder...

Assuming that BFL can put out about 21THash / week (their claim), you would need to be roughly within the first 2 batches to go out for it to be worth the 100BTC hole you start out with, assuming that BFL ships first, and capacity goes online in discret 21THash chunks/week, rather than continuous addition as they suggest they will do after first batch of ?? Thash. Or in other words, it would be cost-effective to cancel your spot in the pre-orders and re-order today if you are later than that in the pre-order list and originally paid with bitcoin.

Does Tom suffer from this same issue?

_{#s wise, the third batch only makes roughly 96BTC back before the late order comes online. This is of course subject to a great deal of supposition regarding timing of orders, and rate of fulfillment}

By that reasoning,noone would spend BTC for fear of it rising,like it has & losing money 

I lost nothing....I paid with my digital currency & helped the BTC economy.

I see what your saying,but your not seeing it from a "realistic" point of view...........

[creativex]

It's as realistic as it gets. Opportunity cost is still a cost and had BFL shipped in October you'd be sitting pretty right now with a paid off ASIC, but they screwed you on that one too. Don't worry though it wasn't their fault, it was those damn clock buffers.

[Transisto]

I did purchase BLFs by selling BTC at ~6$ because I had all of my money invested into BTC.

There's always a cost in having money tied into something, This time the lost opportunities are MASSIVE !

[Jutarul]

... that means...

($13.50 - $10.50) / $10.50 = 28.5%
$30,000 * 28.5% = $8,550

...you have lost $8,550 of potential bitcoin capital gains, or that a BFL ASIC Rig would have cost you $8,550, or that had BFL keept ASIC Rig customers' preorders in bitcoin, it would have owed each of them $8,550 by now.

... Is this in any way relevant?

When you do your profitability calculation for mining hardware you need to denominate in BTC, not in USD. The question is: how long does it take the hardware to generate the amount of bitcoin (ROI break even) you'd spend at that time for the hardware purchase. This is exchange rate independent.

Now - the reduced profitability (longer ROI break even) due to all the delays in delivery are a completely different story...