AnCap is inherently unstable, would immediately fail, and could never last....

[myrkul]

But it worked for 1000 years in Ireland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZZi45Mf6jYY

And yes, England kicked their ass. Still, 1000 years of freedom beats 230 years of gradual loss of freedom, and if it were to play out today, I don't think the conquest would work out quite the same.

[Monster Tent]

Do you think slavery is ethical ?

[myrkul]

Do you think slavery is ethical ?

...No. If the pre-conquest Irish practiced slavery, that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. They had private law, privately enforced, and voluntarily selected their military leadership (and could switch at any time - effectively de Molinari's competing governments), which did not have territorial monopoly. That's AnCap.

Slavery was practiced in post-revolution America, after all, and that doesn't stop people like MoonShadow from holding it up as the ideal of liberty. (It was pretty damn good, despite slavery and mysogynistic practices. Nobody's perfect.)

[stochastic]

So when is the crypto-tuath going to be created?

[myrkul]

So when is the crypto-tuath going to be created?

Do you have any evidence that it hasn't already?

[Monster Tent]

Do you think slavery is ethical ?

...No. If the pre-conquest Irish practiced slavery, that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. They had private law, privately enforced, and voluntarily selected their military leadership (and could switch at any time - effectively de Molinari's competing governments), which did not have territorial monopoly. That's AnCap.

Slavery was practiced in post-revolution America, after all, and that doesn't stop people like MoonShadow from holding it up as the ideal of liberty. (It was pretty damn good, despite slavery and mysogynistic practices. Nobody's perfect.)

Fundamentalism in any form is the real problem not necessarily what the system is you live with. Extreme ideology in any form leads to bad outcomes for the poor suckers at the bottom.

[myrkul]

Do you think slavery is ethical ?

...No. If the pre-conquest Irish practiced slavery, that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. They had private law, privately enforced, and voluntarily selected their military leadership (and could switch at any time - effectively de Molinari's competing governments), which did not have territorial monopoly. That's AnCap.

Slavery was practiced in post-revolution America, after all, and that doesn't stop people like MoonShadow from holding it up as the ideal of liberty. (It was pretty damn good, despite slavery and mysogynistic practices. Nobody's perfect.)

Fundamentalism in any form is the real problem not necessarily what the system is you live with. Extreme ideology in any form leads to bad outcomes for the poor suckers at the bottom.

A compromise between the truth and a lie is still a lie.

[Dalkore]

Do you think slavery is ethical ?

...No. If the pre-conquest Irish practiced slavery, that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. They had private law, privately enforced, and voluntarily selected their military leadership (and could switch at any time - effectively de Molinari's competing governments), which did not have territorial monopoly. That's AnCap.

Slavery was practiced in post-revolution America, after all, and that doesn't stop people like MoonShadow from holding it up as the ideal of liberty. (It was pretty damn good, despite slavery and mysogynistic practices. Nobody's perfect.)

Fundamentalism in any form is the real problem not necessarily what the system is you live with. Extreme ideology in any form leads to bad outcomes for the poor suckers at the bottom.

A compromise between the truth and a lie is still a lie.

Depends on your perspective.   We do not live in a world of absolutes.   I would call it a compromise and if both parties voluntary came to that agreement, then that is the "truth".  There will never be any "private" societies anymore.  At some point, issues involve more than small groups and those require compromise.   If you try and keep yourself small and private, eventually you will be confronted by more force of a larger group.   It is just the reality, put your effort into space colonization and FTL travel if you want to go off in some remote corner and try for your utopian vision.   People group together for protection, enforcement of rules and morality and social interaction.   Nothing will change that.   

But yes, I agree we can tone it down in many areas and enforce more personal liberty.  The fact your on an "internet forum" talking about this speaks volumes.  Interesting I must say.

[ElectricMucus]

If only Libertarians would stop calling themselves Anarcho Capitalists.  

The history of ancient Ireland is fascinating as well as Celtic tribal society. But I wouldn't call it anarchistic since it was clearly structured hierarchically.

[RhoDelta]

So when is the crypto-tuath going to be created?

Won't happen without forming an independent country. You'd need to pull off something like the attempt below, but with a military force that is ready to defend the new crypto-nation.

i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Minerva

[myrkul]

If only Libertarians would stop calling themselves Anarcho Capitalists.  

The history of ancient Ireland is fascinating as well as Celtic tribal society. But I wouldn't call it anarchistic since it was clearly structured hierarchically.

Would you prefer Voluntaryist? That's a label I'm quite comfortable with.

And voluntary hierarchy is perfectly acceptable to AnCaps. It's those dirty commies that don't like any hierarchy.

[Dalkore]

It is a fantasy and nothing more.   These society were not fair or just, and if a person does not want to live in that manner, it shows about about their outlook and how they might want to treat you.  Each time I hear private, I keep thinking about people preserving their right to screw me over without any real recourse via a disinterested 3rd party that is not on someones payroll.

[ElectricMucus]

If only Libertarians would stop calling themselves Anarcho Capitalists.  

The history of ancient Ireland is fascinating as well as Celtic tribal society. But I wouldn't call it anarchistic since it was clearly structured hierarchically.

Would you prefer Voluntaryist? That's a label I'm quite comfortable with.

And voluntary hierarchy is perfectly acceptable to AnCaps.

Hierarchy comes with unjustified authority. Admittedly in ancient Irish society it was more justified than in others since it was possible to loose or gain status. But Anarchy is by definition the absence of hierarchy, not the absence of authority.

It's those dirty commies that don't like any hierarchy.

trollface.jpg

[myrkul]

It is a fantasy and nothing more.   These society were not fair or just, and if a person does not want to live in that manner, it shows about about their outlook and how they might want to treat you.  Each time I hear private, I keep thinking about people preserving their right to screw me over without any real recourse via a disinterested 3rd party that is not on someones payroll.

So, instead, you stick with a monopoly that is beyond reproach by definition, because the whole system is on their payroll.

Genius.

[Dalkore]

It is a fantasy and nothing more.   These society were not fair or just, and if a person does not want to live in that manner, it shows about about their outlook and how they might want to treat you.  Each time I hear private, I keep thinking about people preserving their right to screw me over without any real recourse via a disinterested 3rd party that is not on someones payroll.

So, instead, you stick with a monopoly that is beyond reproach by definition, because the whole system is on their payroll.

Genius.

It is not beyond reproach, it needs extensive reform and possible a total restructuring.   But replacing it with a headless voluntary capitalist society would be even worst than the two-class system we have now. 

It is not voluntary to not murder, plunder, rape, excessive pollute and conspiracy for my demise, period. 

[myrkul]

It is not voluntary to not murder, plunder, rape, excessive pollute and conspiracy for my demise, period. 

You want to try this again in English, so the rest of us can follow along?

[Dalkore]

It is not voluntary to not murder, plunder, rape, excessive pollute and conspiracy for my demise, period. 

You want to try this again in English, so the rest of us can follow along?

Try reading it out load a few times, ponder the meaning.   Comments like that don't get you away from the statement.   I am immune to such tactics, you will need to confront the statement instead.


D

[myrkul]

It is not voluntary to not murder, plunder, rape, excessive pollute and conspiracy for my demise, period. 

You want to try this again in English, so the rest of us can follow along?

Try reading it out load a few times, ponder the meaning.   Comments like that don't get you away from the statement.   I am immune to such tactics, you will need to confront the statement instead.

That's the point, numbnuts. I can't understand the statement. Restate it, preferably without the double negative, into something that actually makes sense as written.

[Topazan]

"It is not voluntary to not murder, plunder, rape, excessive pollute and conspiracy for my demise, period. "

"It is mandatory to refrain from murdering, plundering, raping, polluting excessively, and conspiring to cause my death."

Basically, the Non-Aggression Principle.

[myrkul]

"It is not voluntary to not murder, plunder, rape, excessive pollute and conspiracy for my demise, period. "

"It is mandatory to refrain from murdering, plundering, raping, polluting excessively, and conspiring to cause my death."

Basically, the NAP.

Yup:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle