Scammer tag for PsychoticBoy

[Jurek]

###Was "PsychoticBoy - PGM buyback scam"

Psychotic boy is/was (now closed) the current operator of PGM.

THE THREAD: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78638.msg1388250#msg1388250
ORIGINAL PGM THREAD: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97263.0

PGM IPO'd in August on GLBSE, selling each share for 0.25 BTC what at the time equaled ~2.75USD
371 shares were sold (not counting past and current operators), raising 92.75BTC or 1020USD.

Today shareholders decided to close PGM, PsychoticBoy was supposed to do a buyback.
Instead he paid only 0.11BTC a share (~1.45$), giving back only 538$ out of 1020$ or 40.81BTC out of 92.75BTC not counting the dividends when GLBSE was closed.

I ask for the other half of our money or a scammer tag for the thief.

His explanation is:

0.11 BTC a share is more than reasonable for a buyback with no trade history.
A new BFL Single SC (or BFL Single with Upgrade) will cost you 1300$, with a bitcoin price of 13.3$ you would have the right to get almost 0.1 btc a share.

I paid 0.11 btc a share this includes the outstanding dividends.

YET it is obvious that he kept half of the initial investments of his shareholders in his pocket.

[theymos]

What was the last traded price per share?

[Deprived]

Cross-posting from other thread.

Yet as you may or apparently may not notice these were shares bought in BTC, not USD. We gave you BITCOINS, not $.
And even when you count like that, the numbers don't add up.

At the time of the IPO 1BTC was worth about 11USD. http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg150zczsg2012-08-01zeg2012-08-31ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
Each share was bought at 0.25BTC, which was about 2.75USD

371 shares (not counting yours) equaled 1020 USD YET you decided to give us back ~0.11 a share *13.2$ = 538$.

What exactly you don't understand? You stole more than half (counting dividiends) of what was given to you!

EDIT: actually not given, as you were supposed to be only the operator, as these were, and I quote "PGM SHARES! NO BOND!"

He's not actually scamming you on the closedown - you got screwed when you bought the shares in the first place.  Here's his post that explains how (and just how badly) you got screwed:

I do not sell any BFL Singles into GLBSE anymore, eventhough I own more than 2.
I sold 1 BFL Single that I own to shareholders (1000 shares), I will not create any more shares in the near future.
Here is a picture of one of my Single`s:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B204dRi-nEXRdll5TC1mVGRmX0k



Hopefully I informed you enough.
Greetz

He sold 1000 shares at .25 BTC each (250 BTC total = over $2500) and in return shareholders got ONE BFL single.  That's where you lost your money - his closing down like this is just making your loss immediately obvious.

Mistake you made was assuming that some of the funds raised were going to buy new hardware - they weren't.  If he released a new BFL single to the company that would have been accompanied by raising more funds by sellling new shares.  The funds raised were just going into his pocket and in return you got a portion of a BFL single worth about 1/3 of what you invested.  Obviously that was never going to make you any profit even if he paid for running costs.

If someone sells a "share" then make damn sure they spell out exactly how funds raised will be used and how (and when) they take their own cut.  Otherwise you'll end up (as was the case here) paying a grossly inflated price for something then being surprised when you make a loss.

[Deprived]

What was the last traded price per share?

It's actually not relevant here - payment on closedown was defined by operator as outstanding dividends plus funds received from selling hardware.  He's valuing the BFL single at full list price.

If there was a scam anywhere it was in not being clear in his OP that he was only selling them rights to 1 BFL single rather than using most/all of raised funds to expand hardware.  Basically he was pocketing the lion's share of raised funds (taken as shares rather than cash - but works out same) then paying out based on hardware funded with the bit left.  He sold something for way more than it was worth (and didn't provide enough information for that to be obvious to investors).

In fact he's paying out slightly MORE than he would actually have to do so, if he paid out in line with the stated policy.

Personally I wouldn't give a scammer tag for this - he sold overpriced junk to people who didn't work out what they were buying before sending their cash.  That's an idiot tax, not a scam.

[PsychoticBoy]

No body knew mining shares would devalue so quickly.
I paid the full value of the BFL Single (+. Upgrade) back to Investors, is that scamming?
The funds raised were used to buy the ASIC upgrade which is fully refunded.

I asked if Investors would like to continue on another Exchange or a Buyback, they preffered a Buyback so this was the best way to deal with this, Buyback against market value.


Greetz

[Jurek]

@Theymos the last traded price was 0.24 if I read the csv correctly.

@Deprived the quote you posted is not related to PGM as at that time Paladon was still the operator, not ThiefBoy. He was speaking about his own scam, ABM.

Yeah it looks like I got tricked in the first place.
Anyway, what he did is he took the cost of the asic and divided it by 1000 like if all shares were sold - and that's not the case. 573 shares were never sold (or as he says belonged to Paladon). As I see it these shares are irrelevant, and he should divide the cost of the "sold" ASIC by 463 NOT 1000. that would mean he has to pay 0.21something per share.

Shares do represent an ownership share in the mining hardware in the event of liquidation. In case of liquidation the mining hardware will be sold and minus expences be paid to the shareholders.

When you say shareholders, you mean shareholders, you can't i.e. issue 100 000 new shares and treat yourself as the major shareholder. This is ridiculous.

[PsychoticBoy]

@Theymos the last traded price was 0.24 if I read the csv correctly.

@Deprived the quote you posted is not related to PGM as at that time Paladon was still the operator, not ThiefBoy. He was speaking about his own scam, ABM.

Yeah it looks like I got tricked in the first place.
Anyway, what he did is he took the cost of the asic and divided it by 1000 like if all shares were sold - and that's not the case. 573 shares were never sold (or as he says belonged to Paladon). As I see it these shares are irrelevant, and he should divide the cost of the "sold" ASIC by 463 NOT 1000. that would mean he has to pay 0.21something per share.

Shares do represent an ownership share in the mining hardware in the event of liquidation. In case of liquidation the mining hardware will be sold and minus expences be paid to the shareholders.

When you say shareholders, you mean shareholders, you can't i.e. issue 100 000 new shares and treat yourself as the major shareholder. This is ridiculous.

There you go, sold for market price divided over shareholders, you said it your self.

As stated in the contract, so no scam.

[augustocroppo]

Anyway, what he did is he took the cost of the asic and divided it by 1000 like if all shares were sold - and that's not the case. 573 shares were never sold (or as he says belonged to Paladon). As I see it these shares are irrelevant, and he should divide the cost of the "sold" ASIC by 463 NOT 1000. that would mean he has to pay 0.21something per share.

There you go, sold for market price divided over shareholders, you said it your self.

As stated in the contract, so no scam.

So... Who owns the remaining 573 shares?

[Jurek]

Nobody as these were never sold!

[PsychoticBoy]

1 share represented 0.82 Mh/s as stated in contract, 1 share is 1/1000 BFL Single.

The other shares are owned by me, I bought them when I tookover PGM.

[Jurek]

Then congratulations, you are the fucking master of scam. I hope you choke with my money.

You can't prove you owe these shares as it happend AFTER glbse shutdown. You know it.

[augustocroppo]

1 share represented 0.82 Mh/s as stated in contract, 1 share is 1/1000 BFL Single.

The other shares are owned by me, I bought them when I tookover PGM.

You will have to prove that to your shareholders.

[PsychoticBoy]

1 share represented 0.82 Mh/s as stated in contract, 1 share is 1/1000 BFL Single.

The other shares are owned by me, I bought them when I tookover PGM.

You will have to prove that to your shareholders.

Only proof I have is the YML file recieved from GLBSE.

[repentance]

1 share represented 0.82 Mh/s as stated in contract, 1 share is 1/1000 BFL Single.

The other shares are owned by me, I bought them when I tookover PGM.

So you became a majority shareholder without any advice to the other shareholders that the outstanding shares had been sold?  That's...questionable to say the least.

[Jurek]

You couldn't possibly get these shares since GLBSE had been offline way before you took over PGM.

[PsychoticBoy]

1 share represented 0.82 Mh/s as stated in contract, 1 share is 1/1000 BFL Single.

The other shares are owned by me, I bought them when I tookover PGM.

So its irrelevant how many shares one individual owns, 1 share is 1/1000th BFL Single.
If you own 70 shares, you own 70/1000th BFL single (SC) with current market value 1300$ / 1000 * 70 = 91$ so where did I screw up the math?

[Jurek]

No it is NOT irrelevant.

As stated in the original contract:

Shares do represent an ownership share in the mining hardware in the event of liquidation. In case of liquidation the mining hardware will be sold and minus expences be paid to the shareholders.

There is NOTHING about paying proportionally.


Where you screwed up the math? Where you stole half of the money!

[augustocroppo]

Only proof I have is the YML file recieved from GLBSE.

So start to provide the proof, because you have a shareholder with a reasonable claim against you.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97263.msg1071180#msg1071180

The issuer can buy back the share at any time at a price equal to 1.05 times the highest price the asset was traded on GLBSE over the prior 15 days.

Since you are the new issuer of this shares and it appears the contract did not changed, you should buy back the shares as specified above.

@Theymos the last traded price was 0.24 if I read the csv correctly.

That means 1.05 x 0.24 BTC, a total of 0.252 BTC per share.

Please, correct me if I am wrong.

[PsychoticBoy]

Only proof I have is the YML file recieved from GLBSE.

So start to provide the proof, because you have a shareholder with a reasonable claim against you.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97263.msg1071180#msg1071180

The issuer can buy back the share at any time at a price equal to 1.05 times the highest price the asset was traded on GLBSE over the prior 15 days.

Since you are the new issuer of this shares and it appears the contract did not changed, you should buy back the shares as specified above.

@Theymos the last traded price was 0.24 if I read the csv correctly.

That means 1.05 x 0.24 BTC, a total of 0.252 BTC per share.

Please, correct me if I am wrong.

Last trade over past 15 days is 0 so a buyback of any kind is reasonable if you look at it that way.

[Jurek]

Do you want me to paste the same quote from the contract for the third time?