Bitcoin Forum
June 17, 2024, 01:04:30 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Wanted: Bitcoin merge mined clone coin that can atomically trade with Bitcoin.  (Read 849 times)
Nasakiotoes (OP)
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 116
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 23, 2015, 04:46:50 AM
 #1

First, is it possible to create this?

Second, what would be an appropriate bounty.

entertheabyss
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644
Merit: 502


★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!


View Profile
December 23, 2015, 04:52:11 AM
 #2

Sure, you could do like a cloakcoin style in-wallet trading app, you would still have to have other people to trade with but its not anything groundbreaking. Not sure on a good price for this, or why you would want to spend your money on this i can imagine better ways things to buy. Maybe in the 3-10 btc ballpark.



.
.BIG WINNER!.
[15.00000000 BTC]


▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████▀▀██████████
█████████░░░░█████████
██████████▄▄██████████
███████▀▀████▀▀███████
██████░░░░██░░░░██████
███████▄▄████▄▄███████
████▀▀████▀▀████▀▀████
███░░░░██░░░░██░░░░███
████▄▄████▄▄████▄▄████
██████████████████████

▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████▀▀█▀▀▀▀▀▀██▀▀████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░▄████
█████░░▄███▄░░░░██████
█████▄▄███▀░░░░▄██████
█████████░░░░░░███████
████████░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░███████
███████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████

██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
███████████▀▀▄▄█░░░░░█
█████████▀░░█████░░░░█
███████▀░░░░░████▀░░░▀
██████░░░░░░░░▀▄▄█████
█████░▄░░░░░▄██████▀▀█
████░████▄░███████░░░░
███░█████░█████████░░█
███░░░▀█░██████████░░█
███░░░░░░████▀▀██▀░░░░
███░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░

██░▄▄▄▄░████▄▄██▄░░░░
████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██
█████████████░█▀▀▀█░███
██████████▀▀░█▀░░░▀█░▀▀
███████▀░▄▄█░█░░░░░█░█▄
████▀░▄▄████░▀█░░░█▀░██
███░▄████▀▀░▄░▀█░█▀░▄░▀
█▀░███▀▀▀░░███░▀█▀░███░
▀░███▀░░░░░████▄░▄████░
░███▀░░░░░░░█████████░░
░███░░░░░░░░░███████░░░
███▀░██░░░░░░▀░▄▄▄░▀░░░
███░██████▄▄░▄█████▄░▄▄

██░████████░███████░█
▄████████████████████▄
████████▀▀░░░▀▀███████
███▀▀░░░░░▄▄▄░░░░▀▀▀██
██░▀▀▄▄░░░▀▀▀░░░▄▄▀▀██
██░▄▄░░▀▀▄▄░▄▄▀▀░░░░██
██░▀▀░░░░░░█░░░░░██░██
██░░░▄▄░░░░█░██░░░░░██
██░░░▀▀░░░░█░░░░░░░░██
██░░░░░▄▄░░█░░░░░██░██
██▄░░░░▀▀░░█░██░░░░░██
█████▄▄░░░░█░░░░▄▄████
█████████▄▄█▄▄████████

▀████████████████████▀




Rainbot
Daily Quests
Faucet
monsterer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1008
Merit: 1002


View Profile
December 23, 2015, 10:34:19 AM
 #3

Sure, you could do like a cloakcoin style in-wallet trading app, you would still have to have other people to trade with but its not anything groundbreaking. Not sure on a good price for this, or why you would want to spend your money on this i can imagine better ways things to buy. Maybe in the 3-10 btc ballpark.

Except for the fact that this is an unsolved problem, yeah.
Nasakiotoes (OP)
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 116
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 23, 2015, 04:27:51 PM
 #4

When I mention Atomic transactions, I'm reffering to this.


I'm exploring the idea of atomic transfers for sha256d merge mined chains.

Does anyone know if there is any implemented code?



....... snip

 are you aware of the potential for entirely decentralized cross-chain exchanges?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193281.msg6487835#msg6487835

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=515370.0

..............



.....snip

The latest version allows transfers between chains as long as 1 of them supports non-standard transactions.
.............

Edit 1.
Quote
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91843.msg1011737#msg1011737

P2PTradeX: P2P Trading between cryptocurrencies

The protocol allows cross-coin p2p trading without a central point. It seems to me that it is the "holly grail" of alternate crypto coins. And this is an idea that can change the cryptocoin ecosystem for good, where all coins trade against each other. The benefit for alternate chains is enormous: they don´t need to provide an exchange site, they can trade automatically against Bitcoin. It also means that alternate cryptocoins will rely on Bitcoin and will support Bitcoin because they need  it to enter the cryptocurrency game.

Nasakiotoes (OP)
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 116
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 23, 2015, 04:29:15 PM
 #5

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading

Atomic cross-chain trading
The problem of atomic cross-chain trading is one where (at least) two parties, Alice and Bob, own coins in separate cryptocurrencies, and want to exchange them without having to trust a third party (centralized exchange).

A non-atomic trivial solution would have Alice send her Bitcoins to Bob, and then have Bob send another cryptocurrency to Alice - but Bob has the option of going back on his end of the bargain and simply not following through with the protocol, ending up with both Bitcoins and the altcoin.


Contents [hide]
1 Solution using revealing secrets of contract
1.1 Algorithm
2 Solution using specialized altchain
2.1 Algorithm
2.2 Opcodes and altchain special rules
3 Other references
Solution using revealing secrets of contract
One solution is Contracts and nLockTime.

Algorithm
Here is one description of an algorithm that solves this problem, credit goes to TierNolan for this specific description (the algorithm was described in other terms by other people including Mike Hearn above).

 A picks a random number x
 
 A creates TX1: "Pay w BTC to <B's public key> if (x for H(x) known and signed by B) or (signed by A & B)"
 
 A creates TX2: "Pay w BTC from TX1 to <A's public key>, locked 48 hours in the future, signed by A"
 
 A sends TX2 to B
 
 B signs TX2 and returns to A
 
 1) A submits TX1 to the network
 
 B creates TX3: "Pay v alt-coins to <A-public-key> if (x for H(x) known and signed by A) or (signed by A & B)"
 
 B creates TX4: "Pay v alt-coins from TX3 to <B's public key>, locked 24 hours in the future, signed by B"
 
 B sends TX4 to A
 
 A signs TX4 and sends back to B
 
 2) B submits TX3 to the network
 
 3) A spends TX3 giving x
 
 4) B spends TX1 using x
 
 This is atomic (with timeout).  If the process is halted, it can be reversed no matter when it is stopped.
 
 Before 1: Nothing public has been broadcast, so nothing happens
 Between 1 & 2: A can use refund transaction after 72 hours to get his money back
 Between 2 & 3: B can get refund after 24 hours.  A has 24 more hours to get his refund
 After 3: Transaction is completed by 2
 - A must spend his new coin within 24 hours or B can claim the refund and keep his coins
 - B must spend his new coin within 72 hours or A can claim the refund and keep his coins
 
 For safety, both should complete the process with lots of time until the deadlines.
Solution using specialized altchain
The previously mentioned approach can be used directly to trade between bitcoin-derived chains without special support on the side of protocol. The obvious disadvantage is nLockTime - if counterparty does not go through the trade, our funds are locked and cannot used in another trade for the duration of timeout. Additionaly, it depends on transaction replacement which may, or may not be considered standard under current bitcoin protocol rules.

Another proposal of cross-chain p2ptrade is to use specialized altchain with properties for efficient operation of p2ptrade from bitcoin chain. Additionaly, we use only single standard bitcoin transaction which looks exactly the same as normal payment (no nlocktime, no multisig, no special script).

Assuming the altchain has actual economic value to support it, it can even serve as proxy for (relatively) efficient zero-trust p2p market between fe. BTC and LTC thanks to arbitraging market makers.

Algorithm
Alice=AltChain Bob=Bitcoin

Bob create and sign the transaction as usual and compute its txid. He sends txid and the transaction body with input scripts/signature blanked to Alice.
Alice computes hash of the blanked body, call it blankhash, and constructs transaction with special bitcointxid(blankhash,txid) opcode. Broadcasts the transaction to altchain.
Bob waits for altchain tx to confirm and verify its outputs are as previously agreed - at that point he sends the "uncensored" Bitcoin tx to Alice who'll broadcast it. Alice is therefore credited the bitcoin funds, which in turn validate altchain transaction at the same time (this is the atomic point).
Note that bob releases his tx only if he is sufficiently confident the altchain will not reorg its transactions, thus possibly double spend. This might imply that *many* confirmations in altchain should come first, however during that time each of them might decide to cancel the trade with no further consequences.
Opcodes and altchain special rules
bitcointxid evaluates to true if txid (and blankhash is equal to tx body) are seen confirmed in the bitcoin blockchain (altchain client must consult bitcoin for that) and it's outputs are spendable (ie verify it's standard tx).
The transaction is constructed in such a way it is valid to be included in altchain even if there is no matching txid/blankhash in bitcoin
Its outputs are not spendable and inputs are free to be spent by another tx (i know, ugly!) until bitcoin txid confirmed "freezes" the tx (at which point it consumes inputs, and it's outputs become spendable).
Optionally there could be bitcoin block# parameter at which point the freeze occurs (effectively dictating number of confirms on bitcoin side).
It is legal for inputs to be mentioned multiple times, first (in blockheight order) transaction which gets "frozen" wins and other same-input consumers become invalid.


CIYAM
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1890
Merit: 1078


Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer


View Profile WWW
December 24, 2015, 01:42:28 AM
 #6

Another forum member is actually working with me to test the use of CLTV (CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY) with a P2SH to achieve ACCT using Bitcoin.

If this can work then it would mean that the AT ACCT which has already been functioning on Qora and Burst for many months would allow either of those wallets to behave as P2P trading markets between themselves or Bitcoin.

My guess is that Litecoin (which generally tries to keep up with Bitcoin changes) will also be adopting CLTV sometime soon.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
Nxtblg
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
December 24, 2015, 05:12:59 PM
 #7

Another forum member is actually working with me to test the use of CLTV (CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY) with a P2SH to achieve ACCT using Bitcoin.

If this can work then it would mean that the AT ACCT which has already been functioning on Qora and Burst for many months would allow either of those wallets to behave as P2P trading markets between themselves or Bitcoin.

My guess is that Litecoin (which generally tries to keep up with Bitcoin changes) will also be adopting CLTV sometime soon.


Thanks for the response. Smiley






██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████▄▄▄███████████████████████
███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████▀▀▀████████████████████████
██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████





...INTRODUCING WAVES........
...ULTIMATE ASSET/CUSTOM TOKEN BLOCKCHAIN PLATFORM...






Nasakiotoes (OP)
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 116
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 24, 2015, 10:29:14 PM
 #8

Thank you for commenting here, you always do such cool stuff.

Can you provide any other info or links to this project?



Another forum member is actually working with me to test the use of CLTV (CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY) with a P2SH to achieve ACCT using Bitcoin.

If this can work then it would mean that the AT ACCT which has already been functioning on Qora and Burst for many months would allow either of those wallets to behave as P2P trading markets between themselves or Bitcoin.

My guess is that Litecoin (which generally tries to keep up with Bitcoin changes) will also be adopting CLTV sometime soon.


CIYAM
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1890
Merit: 1078


Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer


View Profile WWW
December 25, 2015, 01:16:23 AM
 #9

Can you provide any other info or links to this project?

At this stage we are just trying to see if we can get the CLTV txs to work properly (no such luck as yet).

Assuming we so work out the kinks with our initial testing I'll have more to say about it. For the AT ACCT you can read about that here: http://ciyam.org/at/at_atomic.html

The approach that will be taken with CLTV and P2SH will still follow @TierNolan's approach closely.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
CIYAM
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1890
Merit: 1078


Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer


View Profile WWW
December 26, 2015, 04:11:16 PM
 #10

An update about the status of the current research being done with ACCT via Bitcoin's P2SH and CLTV: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1300723.msg13359842#msg13359842

We are making progress (slowly).

It also looks like Litecoin will be able to support CLTV soon.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
Nasakiotoes (OP)
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 116
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 26, 2015, 05:22:19 PM
 #11

Very exciting! Good job.

My main interest though is in getting this tech into bitcoin merge mined coins. You mentioned that litecoin would be possible but a little tricky to implement.

With what you have now, is it possible for ixcoin, i0, dev, or namecoin to implement this?


An update about the status of the current research being done with ACCT via Bitcoin's P2SH and CLTV: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1300723.msg13359842#msg13359842

We are making progress (slowly).

It also looks like Litecoin will be able to support CLTV soon.


CIYAM
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1890
Merit: 1078


Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer


View Profile WWW
December 26, 2015, 05:24:17 PM
 #12

My main interest though is in getting this tech into bitcoin merge mined coins. You mentioned that litecoin would be possible but a little tricky to implement.

With what you have now, is it possible for ixcoin, i0, dev, or namecoin to implement this?

That is going to come down to if and when they implement the new CLTV op code (previously OP_NOP2) as per Bitcoin and now Litecoin.

To a fair extent I think this is where the Litecoin project has been very smart - by staying so up-to-date with Bitcoin they will be able to take advantage of such new kinds of scripts probably before any other alts can.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
sidhujag
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005


View Profile
January 15, 2016, 06:39:09 AM
 #13

Very exciting! Good job.

My main interest though is in getting this tech into bitcoin merge mined coins. You mentioned that litecoin would be possible but a little tricky to implement.

With what you have now, is it possible for ixcoin, i0, dev, or namecoin to implement this?


An update about the status of the current research being done with ACCT via Bitcoin's P2SH and CLTV: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1300723.msg13359842#msg13359842

We are making progress (slowly).

It also looks like Litecoin will be able to support CLTV soon.

Syscoin will support cltv due to release in feb.. It will be merge mined with bitcoin and has a decentralized marketplace. My hope is that you can pay for offers in bitcoin or another crypto.

Im currently writing unit tests

https://github.com/sidhujag/syscoin2/tree/syscoin0.12
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!