Is it possible to recognize that someone is using 2nd hand account?

[sardasa]

Accounts can be bought/sold here.
Imagine a situation where xyz sells his account to someone then is it possible to recognize that the person behind the account is real xyz or the one who bought it?

Important point to note here is xyz has got fairly good trust score. So, the new person can even misuse the account.

[1714588971]

1714588971

[1714588971]

1714588971

[Lauda]

If the person behind the account has not posted an address or something that can be related to them, then it might be pretty hard to tell. However, most of these accounts get recognized after a while.

[mexxer-2]

1st thing that'd tip you off is a changed password, but the "Warning" is only showed for a month
2nd thing, a change in style of writing
3rd , change in use of address.

And many more, you are asking this for "Educational purposes" right?

[sardasa]

If the person behind the account has not posted an address or something that can be related to them, then it might be pretty hard to tell. However, most of these accounts get recognized after a while.

Is it not possible for the new account user to commit a big scam during this transit period?

[sardasa]

1st thing that'd tip you off is a changed password, but the "Warning" is only showed for a month
2nd thing, a change in style of writing
3rd , change in use of address.

And many more, you are asking this for "Educational purposes" right?

Yes, it's for educational purposes only. Its more to protect myself from such account users as I am into the riskiest trade possible using bitcoin.
Change is style of writing: What if I am not even aware about his real style of writing? How would I know that his writing is the same as it used to be?

Is it suggested to ask user to point the BTC address which they posted on the day they joined this forum before making any deal with them?

[Lauda]

Is it not possible for the new account user to commit a big scam during this transit period?

Anything is possible with the right person. However, as I've said there are a few people that really pay attention to these things.

[mexxer-2]

Change is style of writing: What if I am not even aware about his real style of writing?

Have a look at their last posts, if you see a change in their post style it should be enough to warn you.

Is it suggested to ask user to point the BTC address which they posted on the day they joined this forum before making any deal with them?

That, unfortunately doesn't work. Even private keys of staked addresses are sold these days, but asking for a custom signed message(which should be replied fast enough, in an hour I'd say) is another layer of security to know its not sold. But considering the fact that most scammers are just looking for a quick buck, use your common sense and don't deal with reversible method of payment from members, more than what their account costs.

[sardasa]

No wonder why so many scams happen on this forum.

1. No rules to access Market Place.
2. No credibility of the account. Anyone can sell their account & other user can scam & run away.
3. Scam section is not moderated.
4. Scammers/Alts are not banned.
5.
6.
7.
8.
............

[sardasa]

don't deal with reversible method of payment from members, more than what their account costs.

How do I know the price of the account with which I am dealing rather how is the worth measured of any account?
Whats the worth of let's say your & my account(s) ?

[Lauda]

No wonder why so many scams happen on this forum.

1. No rules to access Market Place.
2. No credibility of the account. Anyone can sell their account & other user can scam & run away.
3. Scam section is not moderated.
4. Scammers/Alts are not banned.

Even if we disallowed account sales, there is no way of preventing them. People could do it on another website. Scam are not moderated because it would be hard for each moderator to decide what is and what isn't truly a scam.

[mexxer-2]

No wonder why so many scams happen on this forum.
-snip-

No, thats because its the users who blindly believe anything without doing research of their own.

1. No rules to access Market Place.

Accounts are sold, and once in a while a "legit" newbie does come up.

2. No credibility of the account. Anyone can sell their account & other user can scam & run away.

Thats why its you who should be using your brain.

3. Scam section is not moderated.

Wait what? Why would you want to moderate that?

4. Scammers/Alts are not banned.

It creates a false sense of security "Well scammers are banned, so this user should be "legit"". You have heard about TOR and proxies right?
Anyway, I know you're going to be annoyed by my comment, so
 Peace out!

[mexxer-2]

don't deal with reversible method of payment from members, more than what their account costs.

How do I know the price of the account with which I am dealing rather how is the worth measured of any account?
Whats the worth of let's say your & my account(s) ?

Make your own estimate, but as for me I'd estimate mine at somewhere around 0.5 but you should only deal with 70-80% the worth of account. Yours, somewhere at 0.02
It depends on trust and rank and sometimes, the devotion you have shown to the forum

[sardasa]

No wonder why so many scams happen on this forum.

1. No rules to access Market Place.
2. No credibility of the account. Anyone can sell their account & other user can scam & run away.
3. Scam section is not moderated.
4. Scammers/Alts are not banned.

Even if we disallowed account sales, there is no way of preventing them. People could do it on another website. Scam are not moderated because it would be hard for each moderator to decide what is and what isn't truly a scam.

Sorry but why would you care if scammer scams on another website? Should we not focus on making https://bitcointalk.org a better/less prone to scam forum?
By banning a/c sales and making user who registered with that a/c responsible for any/all scam that happens with that account would prevent at least 0.01% of the scams?
In most of the cases looking at the evidences it should not be that difficult to decide who scammed.

[shorena]

-snip-
Sorry but why would you care if scammer scams on another website?

You missed the point. If account sales are no longer allowed here, it does not mean that accounts are not sold. They will be sold elsewhere, but still used here.

Should we not focus on making https://bitcointalk.org a better/less prone to scam forum?

What in your personal opinion is the better way to make this a less prone to scams forum?

One where staff tries the impossible, to prevent all scams or one where each user learns about the way of the scammers and is able to protect themself?

something, something, fish, feed him for a lifetime.

By banning a/c sales and making user who registered with that a/c responsible for any/all scam that happens with that account would prevent at least 0.01% of the scams?

What exactly do you mean with "responsible"? Lets say I sell my account and it is used to steal 1 BTC from you. What now?

In most of the cases looking at the evidences it should not be that difficult to decide who scammed.

Its easy in hindsight, isnt it?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

No wonder why so many scams happen on this forum.

Yep, just like the real world, scammers are abound here and it's even worse because a lot of folks get into bitcoin to make money quickly, so they're greedy and jump at opportunities that seem too good to be true.  And even those that don't sometimes are scams too. 

I imagine the gold rush in California in the 1800s was like this.  Scammers must have flocked there to rip off the gullible.  So just be careful.

[sardasa]

You missed the point. If account sales are no longer allowed here, it does not mean that accounts are not sold. They will be sold elsewhere, but still used here.

Agreed but then knowingly we are not digging holes for ourselves.

What in your personal opinion is the better way to make this a less prone to scams forum?
One where staff tries the impossible, to prevent all scams or one where each user learns about the way of the scammers and is able to protect themself?
something, something, fish, feed him for a lifetime.

Implement proper & effective rules to access market place rather than implementing worthless rule of not having referral link as part of OP.
Staff does not have to do anything if there is a rule to access market place.
For Example: Account less than Junior Member & registered for 30 days should not have access to deal.
It would be an automated process and no staff involvement once this feature is coded.

For anyone to learn how to protect themselves against scams, it need time. They would learn in the 30 days period that how does scammers work & would become more capable of protecting themselves from scam if the above mentioned rule is implemented.

What exactly do you mean with "responsible"? Lets say I sell my account and it is used to steal 1 BTC from you. What now?

You sell your a/c then it means you no longer want to keep that account.
You should probably create a thread on this forum that you are about to sell your account and you would not be responsible for any deals/scams done after that date using your account.

[sardasa]

Anyway, I know you're going to be annoyed by my comment, so
 Peace out!

Agreed because you are always giving your opinion against the topic which I raise.
My thought process is completely opposite than yours.

[shorena]

You missed the point. If account sales are no longer allowed here, it does not mean that accounts are not sold. They will be sold elsewhere, but still used here.

Agreed but then knowingly we are not digging holes for ourselves.

Yes, its happening in the dark where its difficult to see.

What in your personal opinion is the better way to make this a less prone to scams forum?
One where staff tries the impossible, to prevent all scams or one where each user learns about the way of the scammers and is able to protect themself?
something, something, fish, feed him for a lifetime.

Implement proper & effective rules to access market place rather than implementing worthless rule of not having referral link as part of OP.
Staff does not have to do anything if there is a rule to access market place.
For Example: Account less than Junior Member & registered for 30 days should not have access to deal.

But for a scammer its easy to just farm accounts for 30 days and use them for scams later. They haven an incentive to do this, because they can possible come out ahead, esp. if the majority of users consider Jr. accounts trustworthy. Someone that just wants to make deals might be driven away because they dont bother with the grinding.

It would be an automated process and no staff involvement once this feature is coded.

Lets just put the above aside and lets assume somehow account sales do not happen. Do you honestly consider someone trustworthy just because they have been here for 30 days? 60 days? 180 days? 770 days? You should not. You should no one here consider trustworthy because of time. If anything you can trust someone because they have something to lose. E.g. I have 770 days I put into this account to lose. What you cant know is how much in BTC that is worth to me. Some escrows and services have shown they can be trusted with 1000's of BTC. How do you know its them? Verify the PGP signed message they provide. Its more beneficial for them to stay honest than it is to run away with 2-3 btc.

For anyone to learn how to protect themselves against scams, it need time. They would learn in the 30 days period that how does scammers work & would become more capable of protecting themselves from scam if the above mentioned rule is implemented.

People dont read stickies, they ask the same questions - answered in those stickies - over and over and over and over again. There are at least 2-3 posts a week that ask how activity works. Do you honestly think you can just make a marketplace sticky and people will be educated? It does not only need time it also needs a strong motivation and the best motivation is: no one can help you if you fuck up. Bitcoin can not be reversed. If you are willing to take the risk to trade it for paypal that can be reversed for 180 days, be aware of the risk. Once the scam happened your coins are gone and there is nothing you can do about it. This is the strongest motivation I can think of for someone to learn and understand how trading with bitcoin works.

What exactly do you mean with "responsible"? Lets say I sell my account and it is used to steal 1 BTC from you. What now?

You sell your a/c anywhere other than the forum then it means you no longer want to keep that account and then you should probably create a thread on this forum that you are about to sell your account and you would not be responsible for any deals done after that date.

Yes, but you suggested I will be held responsible for the actions of the acount even after I sold it. I ask you how you will be able to make me responsible.

[sardasa]

You missed the point. If account sales are no longer allowed here, it does not mean that accounts are not sold. They will be sold elsewhere, but still used here.

Agreed but then knowingly we are not digging holes for ourselves.

Yes, its happening in the dark where its difficult to see.

What in your personal opinion is the better way to make this a less prone to scams forum?
One where staff tries the impossible, to prevent all scams or one where each user learns about the way of the scammers and is able to protect themself?
something, something, fish, feed him for a lifetime.

Implement proper & effective rules to access market place rather than implementing worthless rule of not having referral link as part of OP.
Staff does not have to do anything if there is a rule to access market place.
For Example: Account less than Junior Member & registered for 30 days should not have access to deal.

But for a scammer its easy to just farm accounts for 30 days and use them for scams later. They haven an incentive to do this, because they can possible come out ahead, esp. if the majority of users consider Jr. accounts trustworthy. Someone that just wants to make deals might be driven away because they dont bother with the grinding.

It would be an automated process and no staff involvement once this feature is coded.

Lets just put the above aside and lets assume somehow account sales do not happen. Do you honestly consider someone trustworthy just because they have been here for 30 days? 60 days? 180 days? 770 days? You should not. You should no one here consider trustworthy because of time. If anything you can trust someone because they have something to lose. E.g. I have 770 days I put into this account to lose. What you cant know is how much in BTC that is worth to me. Some escrows and services have shown they can be trusted with 1000's of BTC. How do you know its them? Verify the PGP signed message they provide. Its more beneficial for them to stay honest than it is to run away with 2-3 btc.

For anyone to learn how to protect themselves against scams, it need time. They would learn in the 30 days period that how does scammers work & would become more capable of protecting themselves from scam if the above mentioned rule is implemented.

People dont read stickies, they ask the same questions - answered in those stickies - over and over and over and over again. There are at least 2-3 posts a week that ask how activity works. Do you honestly think you can just make a marketplace sticky and people will be educated? It does not only need time it also needs a strong motivation and the best motivation is: no one can help you if you fuck up. Bitcoin can not be reversed. If you are willing to take the risk to trade it for paypal that can be reversed for 180 days, be aware of the risk. Once the scam happened your coins are gone and there is nothing you can do about it. This is the strongest motivation I can think of for someone to learn and understand how trading with bitcoin works.

What exactly do you mean with "responsible"? Lets say I sell my account and it is used to steal 1 BTC from you. What now?

You sell your a/c anywhere other than the forum then it means you no longer want to keep that account and then you should probably create a thread on this forum that you are about to sell your account and you would not be responsible for any deals done after that date.

Yes, but you suggested I will be held responsible for the actions of the acount even after I sold it. I ask you how you will be able to make me responsible.

Just ask yourself & analyze the amount of scams happen here which involve newbie dealing with a newbie.
Don't you think if Junior member restriction is applied then scams would reduce?

For me your answers look like as if you have given up and there is no hope to rectify the current situation of this forum.
Shouldn't it be moral responsibility of administration of this forum to control scams here? If not then why do they send note in red for PMs sent by Newbies?

If you have openly created a thread that you sold your a/c then you should not be held responsible for scams.
If you go by my 1st logic: Selling accounts SHOULD NOT be permitted. If you sell your account even on other site then also you are held responsible for anything that happens with this account. Lets say if your account is hacked then forum admin can drop an e-mail to your registered e-mail id & inform you to login ASAP and see what's wrong with the account. Similarly if hacker did any scam using your a/c then you should repay for the losses.

[HWoodrow]

Accounts can be bought/sold here.
Imagine a situation where xyz sells his account to someone then is it possible to recognize that the person behind the account is real xyz or the one who bought it?

Important point to note here is xyz has got fairly good trust score. So, the new person can even misuse the account.

It depends from the style of writing and from many other thing. But I think that an IP control would be great in way to check some man who has more than one account.